scorpio Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 About 10 days ago i bought 2 baby greys 9 week old, they looked fine and the breader said they are in exelent health as i made sure and asked. She told me about their feeding times food and how to bathe them every day with warm water, so i took the birds and left. I had noticed when we got home that one of the birds had a little scab on his crop it looked dry so ithought it was somthing the little birds might grow out. Two days latter ithought it was time for a bathe for the birds so i put one in the sink wet it nice and easy which the baby enjoyed and put out to dry. I proceeded to do the same thing with other bird as well but as he was getting wet i noticed the scab come loose and the food started to come out. i emidietly called the breader as she had told me to call her if anything went wrong and when i told her what happenned she said well now its your bird so you have to take care of it just like that. So i took the bird to the Avian vet and he said its an expensive surgery that the bird needs to close the hole in his feedin crop and he also said that it happened from the breader probably givin the bird hot feed. Now if anyone can recomend any legal advice for this breader that resides in CT please let me know any help is gratly aprecieted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyGreys Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 It sounds definately like formula was fed too hot,this would have burnt the crop, in severe cases it then blisters & scabs, when the scab falls off a hole is left .I am sorry that you have had to experience this but without a written health guarantee from the breeder im not sure how this would stand legally. I hope other members will more legal knowledge can help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 """"9 week old, they looked fine and the breader said they are in exelent health """"""" No grey can be certified as being in perfect health until a vet checks the bird after purchase. If there's a problem, the person is usually given an exchange. That check up can't be done completely until the baby bird has reached weaning age. At 9 weeks, organs aren't fully developed so the vet can't check those undeveloped organs. """"Two days latter ithought it was time for a bathe for the birds so i put one in the sink wet it nice and easy which the baby enjoyed and put out to dry.""" Greys that are at that age shouldn't be bathed. Any fecal matter or facial matter such as dried up food or dirt should be wiped off with a damp rag. That breeder should have never sold you unweaned chicks. One of the major reasons has to do with what I mentioned above. You would need to get a vet to give you the *well check*. The baby should be old enough to be completely examined. A breeder usually offers a certain amount of time to get that done. In your case, the breeder is telling you that you're stuck with the bird whether it be in good health or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpio Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 Thank you all for the replys but there's got 2 be a way 2 hold her responsible. The vet gave me a writen letter saying that the damage was done before i picked up the birds because the scab was old for one and im feeding two birds at the same time and the other bird is fine. Now the breader isn't even responding to my calls or messages so this why i like to know what i can do legaly but if nothing at all i want to warn all others about her so no one else finds themselfs in this mess<br><br>Post edited by: scorpio, at: 2008/06/09 21:55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I'm sorry for what you're going through. It's painful. I know you're upset and ready to kill the breeder. We all appreciate what you're saying about others not going through this. You never mentioned your bill of sale or what type of guarantee or exchange policy you have. Does it say anything about having a bird checked by a vet before a certain amount of time has passed? If you have no papers, there's little you can do. The vet's opinion of when the injury occurred means nothing if there's nothing on paper concerning the possible health problems that occur., Also, when a person buys from a breeder, there's paperwork and certificates given concerning age, health, date of weaning, explanation of the ID that's on leg bands, a health certificate if the breeder already got the bird checked, a time line concerning the return of the bird if the bird is checked by a vet if found to be ill. That's usually between 7 to 10 days. If a person decides to go to a vet after the 10 days and the vet finds a problem the owner is the one who's responsibility it is to correct that problem. That checking out figure might vary. There are other people here that breed greys and they can tell you that a person who purchases birds before they're actually ready to be sold is only asking for trouble even though they may not be aware of it. The customer is usually given a written sheet explaining the present diet, what other things can also be added to the diet. In my case I also give a 10 day supply of formula which is frozen when the person gets home. Many baby birds desire formula even after they're weaned. I also give a 30 day supply of mixed parrot seed. All of that comes with com[plete instructions on how to do everything plus instructions on how to make fresh formula if it's necessary. I also give 2 different sized syringes ans a preformed teaspoon and explain the feeding methods of each. I suppply a cardboard carrying case to take the bird home. I'm not trying to get you upset. I'm just telling you the usual procedures. Just know that we're all concerned about what happened and have deep feelings concerning your plight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookyhurst Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Sorry to here about your new baby . A breeder that sells unweaned babies is not a reputable breeder to begin with, so it's not really surprising that they would pull this on you. Most breeders offer a written health guarantee for a very short period of time (2 of 3) days. During that time, you must have the bird checked at a vet for any preexisting conditions. If you don't, the breeder isn't responsible. A common phrase in the health guarantee is, "Failure to have the bird(s) examined by an avian specialist within 3 days of delivery constitutes the buyer's acknowledgement of an "as is" sale." Were you given anything in writing about a health guarantee? Here is some info from another site ( http://www.geocities.com/Conures123/QuestionsToAskBeforeBuying.html ): 3) What is the health guarantee? A good breeder, pet shop, ect... will give you a health guarantee. However, since there are many things that could cause health problems in a new home, the seller will usually only give you 3 to 5 days, and the bird MUST be seen by an Avian vet within that time. If the avian vet suspects something is wrong, the seller will want a written statement saying what they suspect is wrong and why, and then (if it is found to be the a health concern that originated before the bird was brought to his/her new home) the seller should take the bird back and refund the original purchase price. Don't let a breeder or pet shop fool you into thinking that health guarantees aren't common, or unnecessary... a good, quality breeder/pet shop/seller WILL give you a written health guarantee, provided the above guidelines are followed. If the seller refuses to give a health guarantee or some sort, I would be suspicious, and I would make sure you get a few good references. It is also a good idea to request the name of the avian vet the breeder/pet shop uses, and call their vet as a reference (this is a good idea if the seller offers a health guarantee or not). And a good breeder or pet store will offer FREE support for the lifetime of their baby parrots. This support includes (but is not limited to): a) providing references for local avian vet(s) b) provide quality reading material before and at the time of purchase c) answering the new family's questions about their bird's care and behavior d) Last but not least- the breeder or pet store should offer to take the bird back at ANY time during that baby's lifespan if the new family can no longer keep him/her. (They might not be able to give you a refund after a certain period **see the information on health guarantees above**... but they should be committed to each and every one of their babies and be willing to take him/her back if necessary). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMustee Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I'm very sorry to hear about your baby and the issues he is facing. I'm also sorry to say there really isn't too much you can do. I just googled CT pet lemon laws and this is what I found... Connecticut - Section 22-344b of the CT Code. Dogs and cats are covered for health problems for 15 days. Reimbursements for veterinary bills can not exceed two hundred dollars. Without some kind of health guarantee there really isn't much you can do. The breeder I got Elmo from had no health guarantee on Elmo because I took him before he was weaned and there is just to many things that can kill a baby bird to be able to guarantee his health. My breeder however called me a few times a week to see how Elmo was doing and to see if I had any questions. Also, my pet store normally does not sell unweaned birds but because there is so much misinformation out there saying you need to hand feed a bird to bond with it that there are people that will only buy a bird if they can hand feed it themselves. We have those customers sign a release stating we can not guarantee it's health and we are free of any and all liability. Sorry to say but it sounds like you have and "as is" sale and a real dou*he-bag breeder. You should have given both birds a good look over before you took the birds and asked about the scab and asked the breeder for a guarantee to allow an avian vet to check him out before you bought him.<br><br>Post edited by: BMustee, at: 2008/06/10 05:13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Scorpio, I am sorry to hear of the crop issue your one baby Grey has. At this point, the main concern is getting the crop repaired by the avian vet to ensure your baby remains healthy and safe. I would be upset with the breeder just as you are. Since you have no legal recourse. The best way you can get some type of personal satisfaction out of this terrible situation. Would be to take actions on your own against that breeder. Star blogs all over the web naming that breeder along with their address and website if they have one. Post notes on all Parrot forums regarding this breeders lack of professionalism, fairness and most importantly their lack of concern in providing the baby parrots the environment they NEED to STAY in until WEANED. Many States have now passed laws against anyone selling unweaned birds. If CT has such laws, you can take action through the state animal control or resources boards against that breeder and at least fined if not put out of business all together. Again, I feel your pain and anger, so sorry this happened to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Hi Scorpio, I'm sorry to hear about the poor baby bird, I can't really offer any legal advice, but like DanMcQ said - publicly name this breeder, make it an issue wherever you can. Write to the local newspaper too - tell local pet shops - tell everyone you see! It's sad that some people care more for the health of their pocket than the health of the living creatures they are meant to care for! Anyway, focus your energy on getting this baby better and love him/her to pieces - you hopefully will have a long and fulfilling life together. Keep us updated... -Sameera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siobha9 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 This is dreadful. The poor baby. Did the baby have the surgery? How is it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMustee Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I would do what everyone else has said. Get the word out about how horrible this breeder is. Crop burning is one of the worst injuries a baby bird can face, yet is the easiest to avoid. Just to let you know, never feed formula over 110 degrees F, I alway feed at 105-106 to be sure it's not going to burn. ALWAYS use a thermometer...I prefer digital...and never trust a wrist test for temp. I'm sure your vet explained this to you. At my store we have black listed a number of local breeders that we will never buy from again because of health issues with their babies. Right now we have a U2 that has been fighting a deep infection. The vet and us will think it's cleared up but then it comes right back. We are now starting a massive antibiotic by injections, and have to watch her to be sure her kidneys don't shut down. We will tell people who these breeders are and have told the Avain Vet we take our birds too so he knows what baby birds to watch and do extra careful exams on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acappella Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I'm sorry for your worry and pain over this baby and the breeder you got it from. Others have given great advice, I can only add this. How big is the community you live in, how close and well-known is the breeder, do pet stores deal with this breeder? The reason I ask is: I live in a VERY small community where everyone knows everyone, and this comes in handy when looking for fair treatment. Before I posted anything about this breeder I would try once more to get them to cover some of your expenses, using your ability to 'spread the word' about them via all the sources others have mentioned to give you some leverage. As upset as I know you are, and have every right to be, try not to be confrontational or threatening, just state your position and the recourse you may have to take in a matter-of-fact manner. If you find you have no legally actionable leverage in your state, admit that up front and appeal to the breeders greed in terms of future sales and professional reputation. Once you 'blacklist' there's no going back and no hope of any kind of justice for your situation, and I would only do this in the spirit of warning others not to find themselves in the same situation you are experiencing. Sorry if this is too much along the lines of 'you catch more flies with honey than vinegar' line, but I've worked in customer service, and lived and worked and shopped in a small community most of my life. Only you know how unreasonable a person this breeder comes across as, and whether this strategy stands a chance. Good luck with this, and with seeing your baby through his health crisis. Please keep us updated on how the baby and you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovelylew Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 So sad about the baby's crop. Please post back and let us know how it's doing. I would say ask the breeder if you could exchange the bird for another baby, but how unfair for the bird to not get treatment, and so unfair to you for all of the expense. Hopefully, the breeder will compensate you in some way. Good luck, please let us know how this situation turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nychsa Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Well, I'm not sure that's true that there is no legal recourse. It would depend on the state. You'd need to look into your state's particular laws. I know a number of states have laws that address implied assurances, and agreements reached based upon good faith. There may also (potentially) be a case to be made re: negligence. It might be worth calling the human society to see if they have someone who can conduct an inspection of the breeder's practices and see if there aren't more issues that need to be addressed with this breeder. As others have mentioned, this so called breeder obviously doesn't have the bird's best interests at heart if she's releasing them at 9 weeks and is feeding them hot formula. A small claims court would more then likely hear the case as it relates to implied assurances and agreements, and my sense is it could go either way. But a small claims court wouldn't really cost you much and it might shed some light on what is going on with this breeder. But I would check with your state's laws first and see how such transactions are dealt with in the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpio Posted July 3, 2008 Author Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hello all, sorry been busy for a while but wanted to let you guys know the bird is doin fine. Since the last time i took the bird to the vet he surgically reparied the birds crop and the baby is doin fine, i named the bird SCAR i thought it was fitting. Anyway both Scar and his sibling are doin very well had the vet check them and he was very pleased with Scar's recovery and weight gain as well as his brothers or sister well being. As far as the breader im thinkin of taking her to small claims court as that was the vets opinion as well. i live in queens, ny and she leaves in CT so i have to se what can be done but my bird is doin fine so im happy. i just dont want to let this lady get way with it. Anyway thanks for the support from all you guys. i'll try to keep you all updated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Scorpio that is excellent news, and small claims court is a good idea! I don't know anything about US law, but I do watch Judge Judy!:silly: I really hope everything goes well from now, main main thing is that Scar is doing well. -Sameera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyGreys Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Great news that little Scar is thriving after his poor start in life.Im sure he will continue to go from strength to strength & live a great life with you & his sibling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycos_mom Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 That great news that little Scar is thriving again I glad to hear he going to be okay and go on to live a normal life all thanks to you and the wonderfulcare that you have given him. I know the baby had a rough start and that breeder should have to pay for all the vet bills and also return the price of that baby. The only thing that breederr did right was to sell that baby to you she couldn't of picked a better person. you have brought a baby that could have easily died back to health and thats just wonderful. Karna to you and I wish you all happiness with your new family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairymyst78 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Glad to hear scar is doing well. What a wonderful grey owner you are! I hope all works out with the small claims court. +1 Karma from me as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anmlhggr Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Wow, that is completely appalling. Most likely some 'backyard' person who said "Oh I have two grey's, might as well breed them and make a buck or two" God, It's INFURIATING!! I'm glad that scar is doing better, make sure to keep us informed! When is the court date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdelatorrejr Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I am happy to hear Scar is doing well. I too am a new TAG owner. I had a similar experience but I am glad I spent the two months getting to know my breeder personally over the phone. We spent time talking about greys and he freely shared his experience, knowledge and love for birds. I was convinced the bird I put a deposit on is coming from a loving home and environment. I noticed two days after picking my bird up from the breeder that one of his nails on his right foot was bent upwards different from the rest. I'm unsure if the injury happened in the breeders care or mine. I contacted the breeder and right away he expressed concern and asked if I wanted to exchange the bird. I declined since we've already bonded and asked his advice on what to do since I was a new grey owner. In the end, I took the bird to the vet and the nail had to be removed. The vet's assumption is the injury is due to the clumsiness of young birds getting around. Its been about 4 days and I noticed a stub of a nail growing. I now consider my breeder a friend and made plans to go to bird shows with him when I am in town. I hope many readers learn from your painful experience so that others may benefit. My sympathy and support goes out to you. I am happy to hear that this baby went to you and your loving home. I've heard stories of owners not willing to take responsibility of their pet - scary! Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMustee Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I'm so glad to hear Scar is healing and putting on weight! I'm sure he is going to grow into a strong healthy bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 This is wonderful news and the baby's name is Scar, it could have easily been Lucky for he was lucky to have landed in your hands, you took good care of him and he might not have been so "lucky" if he had went to a different home. Please keep us updated on his progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovelylew Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Great news about Scar! You are blessed to have found each other. Good luck in preventing this breeder from doing this again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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