We lost trust :(

[Olla]

Hi everybody!

I have a Congo grey, he is approximately 2 years old and I have had him for 1 year. I bought him from the people who kept him in a small cage without toys and he was afraid of them.

When I took him home, he let me touch his neck and took nuts from my hand. Step by step he started trusting me and stopped biting, whenever I touched him.

He is a wonderful bird, very talkative and never screamed, learned several commands and in several months he trusted me almost 100%.

I used to take him to a vet to shorten claws and to do other procedures. But then I decided to do it myself. He was angry with me for 1 day, didnt let me approach him and didnt talk. Then everything became as usually. But suddenly, in 1 week or so, something happened...

In the evening we were playing, skratching and so on, but in the morining...

I uncovered his cage and tried to take him to hand and he started screaming and falling to the bottom of the cage. There was fear in his eyes. Whenever I made a move he screamed horribly and jumped away. He broke several feathers and was bleeding. I decided to leave him alone. I was so scared.

The same happened the next day, and the next. I decided to treat him as if he was a wild parrot...I talked to him from the distance, i didnt make fast moves, I tried to clean his cage as quickly as possible...

 

It has been almost 3 months since then. He doesnt scream anymore when i approach him, but still doesnt step up to my hand. The only things he allows me to do are: to touch his beak with my finger or to kiss his beak. And it is not the same every day, sometimes he escapes from me, sometimes he takes nuts from me...

During this time, I was getting desperate and I cried because of this. But now I see, that slowly the situation changes. I really hope that in some time, he will become as tame as before, and that he will trust me again.

 

This is my sad story... It is very painful to loose your birds trust. just like that, over one night.

 

I have heard that it is not recommended to do anything that scears the bird yourself, it is better if somebody else will do it for you. And you should not be seen by the bird. But I made a big mistake and this is what happened.

 

if anybody can advice something about what to do in my case, I will be very thankful!

 

P.S. I am sorry if I made grammatical mistakes, I am from Denmark:)<br><br>Post edited by: Olla, at: 2008/06/08 18:47

[judygram]

I'm guessing something happened during the night to frighten him, do you have any other pets, maybe dogs or cats that could have scared him because something is causing his fear. Is there anyone else in the household who could have scared him?

 

If he was reacting to you clipping his nails or wings he would be mad for a short period of time like that day or the next and not for 3 months. I think you will regain his trust but it will take time, just be very patient with him but I think you need to do a little investigating to find out what happened that night to change him like that.

 

Why don't you introduce yourself in the welcome room and tell us a little more about you and this grey.

[danmcq]

Welcome Olla!!

 

Something definitely changed to make your much loved Grey behave in that manner.

 

Is it possible you changed nail color, got your hair cut, changed the style, wearing a new ring, shirt or something different etc.?

 

I feel your heart break and dismay in this behavioral change in just one day to the next. He obviously became more traumatized by his own actions of flailing around, breaking feathers and some blood feathers at that, it seems.

 

You are obviously knowledgeable of what you need to do to win his trust back once again. As you have already painstakingly done so once before.

 

One other thing that could Be going on, on top of a change, is he is at the "Terrible" two age.

 

Again, it's great to have you here and we'll look forward to hearing more from you. :-)

[Olla]

Thaks a lot for your replies!

Actually, the night before it happened i came late and my boyfriend had already turned off the light for the birds ( i also have lovebirds ) and he didnt cover them, as i usually do. I decided not to disturb them and left it like that, because they had slept uncovered many times before.

First thought that came to my mind in the morning was that Ruby (my grey) got scared at night, but who knows...

I also thought that it is because of the spring. There was a lot of birds outside, they sang and flew. Ruby was looking out of the window all the time and getting ready to fly.

Then I thought that it was because of maturing, I know that this age is difficult for African greys and their owners, but I dont think it changes them so suddenly. He has always tried to break the rules, but not this way! He could bite, complain or anything else but nothing like screaming and falling in panic...

Some of my friends who have birds supposed that something has changed in me or in the room, but everything was the same...just his behaviour.

 

You can never know what to expect from our feathered friends... Once I went for a 6-day holiday and when I came back I found him thin and very sad. he lost 15% of his weight just in 6 days! Even though he stayed with my friend who took care of him. When I came he started eating and he did it every 10 minutes...

 

Anyway, thank you again for giving me hope that he will get like he was before!<br><br>Post edited by: Olla, at: 2008/06/08 23:22

[judygram]

Maybe Ruby is a very sensitive grey and things that others would take in stride give him more problems.

 

I have heard of the behavior and personality changes that occur when they get to the terrible twos, but I have yet to experience it myself and my Josey was 2 years old last month.

 

I would say the fact that he didn't eat while you were gone indicates he has separation anxiety and when you got him back home he ate like he was starved.

 

I am still inclined to think that something, and maybe it is something so small you might not have noticed it, has changed to make him act this way.

 

Maybe some of the other grey owners will have more thoughts and insight into what is going on with Ruby.

[Dave007]

"""""' people who kept him in a small cage without toys and he was afraid of them. """"""

 

So he knows what fear is like. Everything isn't the same. In your eyes it might be but you can't tell with a bird. He broke blood feathers and never did that before so that's different. Understandably, you acted very frantically so that too is different. He's not used to such a drastic sudden change in how you reacted. In your situation, it would be best for you to lose that cage cover even if there's activity and sound around him. That's the time he's gonna see you and the family but none of you are gonna be paying attention to him. There's TV and whatever activities you and family do. He's gonna be watching and finally when he relaxes he'll nod off. He's gonna see you coming in the morning. He's gotta see a consistent relaxed atmosphere for a while.

 

""" really hope that in some time, he will become as tame as before, and that he will trust me again."""

 

Of course he's gonna trust you again. He trusts you right now but it takes time for him to totally feel at ease and comfortable again. This is the time that you should show relaxation around him and don't pay attention to his every move. Carry on all day as if nothing has happened.

 

You know something, believe it or not, your bird knows things aren't right with you. Common signs of that are loss of verbal actions, retaliating or being stubborn when you want him to step up, screaming or growling, extrenme quietness, staying in a corner of the cage, watching your every move.

 

 

""""The only things he allows me to do are: to touch his beak with my finger or to kiss his beak. And it is not the same every day, sometimes he escapes from me, sometimes he takes nuts from me...""""

 

Stop the beak kissing, not so much as he might bite you for no reason but for the fact that your bird is much older now. He's into that stage where he will bite and it won't take much for him to do it.

It's the same thing as a person who lets their bird on their shoulder..for quite a while, everything is cool and then one day the bird bites the neck or the cheek or the ear. The person has a knee jerk reaction and because of that , the bird bites again before the person can get him. The bird is pissed off, the bird is nervous and aggressive and unpredictable. For the person who owns such a bird and has that experience, the days of the shoulder are over.

 

You're thinking that by you uncovering him made him fall but it's not as drastic as you think. Greys are very clumsy and many fall off perches while doing other things in a cage or simply relaxing. More than likely, that was a coincidence but you made a big deal out of the. I understand why you did but he doesn't. It's always a big deal to the bird. Just the other day, the people here were discussing what happened when their bird fell in a cage. Mine did that while getting aggressive with a toy. He landed flat on his back and I didn't approach him. I looked at him and laughed and turned away and watched him climb up the cage and continue the rough play with the toy.

 

"""And it is not the same every day, sometimes he escapes from me, sometimes he takes nuts from me...""

 

This is about the beak again--he escapes you--sooner or later he'll find out that the way to actually *escape* you is to bite you on the mouth. That can cause severe lipitis.

 

"""""I used to take him to a vet to shorten claws and to do other procedures. But then I decided to do it myself. He was angry with me for 1 day, didnt let me approach him and didnt talk. """"""

 

I don't think there's one person here that hasn't had that happen to them. Some greys even stay pissed off for more than just one day. It's gonna take time and practice for you to learn the art of nail clipping. That should always be done with two people.

 

"""""I talked to him from the distance, i didnt make fast moves, I tried to clean his cage as quickly as possible...""""

 

From now on, have him out of the cage when you have to do any physical work there. A grey will except this things happening when they watch from a safe distance. That's nothing new for greys. Many people will tell you that things were pretty cool when it came time to do the cleaning and feeding but that one day came --BANG.

Why?--As greys get older, their natural, well known instinct of jealousy emerges and many greys get to the point of having bad reactions to people when they're doing things in and around the cage. Maybe you're asking yourself * gee, why did'nt any of this go on in the past?* Your bird is getting older and is trying to lay down some rules that are natural for a grey. A cockatoo will have other rules as well as many other species.

 

"""It has been almost 3 months since then. He doesnt scream anymore when i approach him, but still doesnt step up to my hand."""""

 

That's gonna happen with time and when it does, the atmosphere is gonna be different. You'll partially want him to and he'll partially want to and when it does happen the problem is finished. Instead of calling it *shaking hands and forgiving*, call it *shaking claws and forgiving* *Claws* is used because you're a woman. Neither of you will even know that it's about to happen.

 

I could say other things but you've got enough on your plate---The biggest thing you've gotta do is stop thinking that some permanent trust is now gone. He's gonna pick up on the fact that you're being different.

 

Remember that he's still young and can be very obstinent similar to kids that are 3, 4, 5 yrs old. All you wanna do is trade them in for a better, more stable version.

 

Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/06/09 00:28<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/06/09 03:50

[judygram]

Thanks Dave for the wonderful information for Olla and her difficulties with her grey, I knew you would have some answers and guidance for her, I can always count on you to come thru and share your knowledge with us.:kiss:

[Olla]

Wow!

Dave, thank you for such useful information!:woohoo:

 

You are so right about kissing the beak. I started doing it after that thing happened. I know it is dangerous for me and for our relation, but I was so happy that at least he allows me to do that. I will not do it from now on.

I never let him sit on my shoulder either. He tried to do it in the beginning, but understood that it is a forbidden zone.

 

About falling in the cage... He fell many times before while playing or while flapping wings. But that time he just jumped off the perch and hit against the wall of the cage several times and in the end he fell on the bottom. He was afraid of my hands so much that it seemed that he thought i was going to eat him...

 

I try to stay with him as much as possible when he is outside the cage. I just do something and dont pay attention to him. Sometimes he climbs closer to see what I am doing, but if I look at him he just runs away.

And when i talk to my lovebirds, he tries to attract my attention by making noise, but when I come to him, he steps back.

And he always calls me when I leave the room and "stays in contact" by whistling all the time and I answer to him.

And there are many other things that show he is interested in me, but still not sure if he should let me come closer.

 

Post edited by: Olla, at: 2008/06/09 10:29<br><br>Post edited by: Olla, at: 2008/06/09 10:38

[JenniO]

wow, that's scary. I inherited Georgie (7yr old male) a year ago. He was REAL bity. I had lots of scars because i'm a petting kind of person, but i learned about him & he learned about me, so now no biting & he knows that all i want is to kiss his beak and tummy, not hurt him.

Funny thing about nail care. I happened by luck, I trained him to shake my finger (hand), you know, by rewarding with seeds, and once i decided to file his needle sharp claws while putting him on his back (he likes a nightly head massage, he's SPOILED) . He SCREAMED!! wouldn't let me do that. Time passed, & than while he was shaking my hand on the training perch, i made the nail file a new game. I picked it up , touch his foot with it & IMMEDIATELY shouted cheers, clapped, the whole "good boy" routine with LOTS of seeds. After that, he didn't mind it. Now he acts as though it's about time Mom got around to my manacure!

I have the best luck with new things, when I cheer insanely & feed him if he does something I want him to do. So far so good:)

[Tycos_mom]

I think your bird got scared when he fell against the wall and you paniced and eched for him I've heard many simalar storie where the bird has fallen and the owner runs over to the bird to see if its ok and trust is lost. I was told that if you bird falls wait until it turns to you before you pick him up don't ever reach for him to see if she's okay untilhe asks for you too. I have a bird that use to fall all the time and very hard because she was so off balance due to chewing all the feathers on just one side. She would scare me to death everytime she fell. but I never ran over to her. She's fine now. and we are starting to have a wonderful relationship. It will just take some time You are doing all the right things I'm sure one day like Dave said she will step up and all will be forgiven

 

[TinyTimneh]

i just like to say don't lose hope, my TAG came from a similar situation. don't feel bad, nsil clipping wouldn't cause this, especially not so after the fact like this. i clip my TAG's nails weekly (they're overgrown) and a severe reaction like this never happens. if your grey is almost two, this might be your cause. Your bird is now going thru the 'terrible twos' and some go thru a nippy or alternatively fearful/phobic phase. there are several books and such that deal with this topic, try looking at them. also, something that really helped with my grey was feeding him some treats in the palm of my hand while he was in his cage for a while, and not trying to touch or handle him otherwise. you can always offer a headscratch if he'd like one but don't ask him to come out if he doesn't want to. once he's calmed down enough (so that's he's not screaming and fleeing from you for example) then you must progress to step-up practice (at least daily) away from his cage (let him come out, don't reach in for him). hope that helps a bit!<br><br>Post edited by: TinyTimneh, at: 2008/06/15 02:28

[Olla]

Hi again!

So, 6 months have passed and we are still in the same situation.:blink:

He still is afraid of me and now other people, too. He almost doesnt scream, but doesnt let us touch him. He can take food from my hand, 2 times he let me scratch his head, but it was after I came back from 1 week holiday and then everything became as usual.(Maybe he missed me). I really dont know, what to do...Just to wait more?...

[Olla]

His wing feathers are growing now. I have a little hope that when he can fly again, something will change. Because now, he knows he can not escape and it makes it worse.

[siobha9]

Hi Olla,

I am sorry to hear that the situation is no better, or indeed a little worse since he is now afraid of other people too. Unfortunately the only advise I can give you is patience and yes, to wait more. I know that's probably very frustrating, but there are some positives. The fact that he let you scratch his head when you came back from holidays, means he really does love you and trust you. He is just not relaxed around you yet as Dave007 said earlier.

 

Good luck with him, and thank you for keeping us updated.