BITES

[bettyboop]

Hello ,

We have a three year old CAG .He has been with us 7 weeks . He is out of his cage 4-8 hours per day , talks up a storm and allows us to scratch his head and is really sweet except when he is on us . He bites us everytime we allow him to be on us , I mean break the skin bleed , we do not react ,except we do tell him NO and we take him back to his playstand and walk away and go somewhere private and scream LOL....He pecks at our heads , not preen, pecks , pecks on our faces to the point we can not allow him on the shoulder . He is like a big bully , we adore him but not his beak. He does step up the first time we ask and is fine for a while and then he starts in with a big bite .I know that a bird who bites needs to be handled more , but when you come out bleeding , how do you overcome this , if we have a towel on our hand he finds another place .We also have an Alexandrine who sends a very clear message when she is going to nip or bite , but this guy sends no warning .I realize all birds bite but this is to the point , picking him up is not fun . Any suggestions ? Thanks

[siobha9]

I dont mean to be funny, but I wouldnt pick him up! I would start by trying to pet him while he is on a stand or something - that way you can get away if he turns nasty. Eventually he will trust you and then you could hold him.

 

That is what I have had to do with one of my guys. I have only been picking him up for about a month and I have had him for nearly a year. I would put him on the back of a chair and try to pet him. Or on his stand.

[bettyboop]

Siobha, Thank you , that is not funny advice , very smart, LOL...I just do not want him to be where we can not handle him . I realize he is still in early adjustment , my prior Grey who passed away , it took 7 months before we could handle him . So I suppose we will just sit and visit .

Thank you,

Betty Boop

[judygram]

Well 7 weeks is not long enough to gain the complete trust of a 3 year old grey, it takes lots of time and patience when working with an older grey. But one thing is for sure, as long as he acts this way I would not allow him on your shoulder as he could do some serious damage to your face.

 

I would follow Siobhan's advice to tell him no when he bites and put him back on his playstand or back in the cage and turn your back and ignore him for a bit then try it again. He will eventually learn that is not acceptable to bite and he gets ignored for doing it, they hate to be ignored. Give him some more time and see if things don't improve.

[bettyboop]

Hi Judy,

I know that 7 weeks is not long enough to gain his trust .My question is with a new bird that bonding has not taken place , is it correct not to handle them until their is more trust in the relationship? Can bonding take place without handling them ?

He seems so "I'll show you " , or arrogant . Things start off very well , he does the lean in where he wants to be on us , he even says "step up", then after a few minutes , when absolutly nothing is going on, he bites.

Thanks for the tips.

Mary

[siobha9]

I would still handle him, but just not actually "on" you. Pet his head on a stand. Let him sit on the kitchen table and give him rubs. Just dont have him on your shoulder. When he is up there firstly he thinks he is bigger than you,and secondly you cant really see what he is doing or read his body language.

 

You can give great cuddles with your bird right in front of you and bond that way. Oisin does that too, he is much better now though. I could be happily petting him, he would have his eyes closed as if he is really enjoying it and then like a switch goes off and he whips his head around and bites. When he is in front of me 90% of the time I can see it coming and tell him no bite without actually getting bitten. Of course I bear scars for the other 10% of the time :angry:

[lovemyGreys]

Here is a thread on reading your grey's body language, may be useful to you ..

 

http://www.greyforums.net/component/option,com_joomlaboard/Itemid,27/func,view/catid,5/id,70476/

[bettyboop]

Thank you GURU ,

However I am familiar with the signs . This guy just snaps and does it , when we say no , to whatever he is up to .There really isnt time it happens so quickly.My Alexandrine gives me fair warning , easy to read .

[Dave007]

Kinda simple

3 yrs old with prior bad habits. Likes to bite face. In the future, probably cheeks. In the future, probably neck. In the future, probably earlobes. In the future, probably neck and head hair. In the future, probably jewelry. In the future, probably shirt collars.

The bird is simply one of those that shouldn't be anywhere above your lower chest.

 

PS--towels scare birds when used to grab and pull away birds. They should only be used for important things like when a person needs to perform hygiene on the bird.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/04/29 22:38

[bettyboop]

Thanks Dave ,how can I break all of this . Is there hope ? Like I said , he is so fast , even when he is in my lap, head down, cooing, from head and neck scratches , he will flip that head around and bam it's done . I am bleeding ..Just like a bully !!

Mary(BETTYBOOP)

[Dave007]

He's a 3 yr old bird. Most of the biting was learned in the past. It's now a part of the bird's makeup. Lots of people have birds that bite all the upper areas. Those upper areas are most vulnerable because the bird can see them but you can't see what the bird is seeing. You've had him for 7 weeks which is much too early to see whether he'll calm down. he might be that type of bird that needs to be left alone until the whole atmosphere of your home sinks in. Also, concerning the petting in the lap. Only pet in the direction of the feathers. Don't come from the back of the neck up to the top of the head. many birds have extremely sensitive pin feather areas that are located all over the body. That's where the feathers will eventually emerge from. With some birds, rubbing in the reverse direction may only be irritating to them when they're molting; with others, it's an all year sensitivity. Pet the bird the same way as you pet a dog. Don't bury your fingers in trying to reach the skin of the neck.

Don't *obey* his commands when he wants to be touchedall the time. Just let sit there. Let him come to your hand and push it around to areas he likes. Pet extremely gently. Make it short pets. DON'T touch the beak. DON"t let him on any area of you where you'll lose sight of him. When that happens you'll wind up chasing him around your shoulders and when you eventually corral him, definitely expect a bite that will cause bleeding. I know it's hard but you've gotta try not to use a towel when doing these things Towels should be used when a bird's nails need to be trimmed or certain parts of the body need to be examined. A bird can asociate with a towel in a good way though. I use a different colored towel for each of my 3 greys but the reason they're being used is so that I can cover my lap and legs when they're sitting with me watching TV. When a certain color towel is seen, that bird knows it's his turn for the lap but that's the only they asiciate the towel with. I only do this cause each bird has a very bad habit of shi*ting on my clothes. I never use a towel after bathing them.

At this time, you'll have to make an effort to time things with ex--flipping head around. Do that and you simply take your hand away. It takes time but you need to understand that you have a bird there that entered your house with a bit of history attached.

Remember that seven weeks is nothing where it concerns learning a new bird's behavioral habits. Patience, alertness and more patience followed by more alertness. That should be your immediate dealings with him.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/04/29 23:35

[bettyboop]

Thanks I will give you a thumbs up . I will take everything you suggested and do it . I really appreciate your reply .

Mary (bettyboop)

[bettyboop]

Dave , I gave you a thumbs up on prior post so I have to wait 6 hours to applaude you again .LOL.. DON'T LET ME FORGET.

M(bb)

[Dave007]

Don't worry about the thumbs up. Just try to be happy with your new family member. That's enough thumbs up for me. Glad to have helped. Patience, patience, patience by by the way, a million people here will tell you how different their bird acts assoon as he can go to areas where you can't go--the most important being the shoulders which is the avenue to so many sensitive areas on your body. Also remember that some parrots are well known for giving free ear piercing so that you can use the latest earrings.

[bettyboop]

How kind !!!!Thanks again

M

[judygram]

Thanks Dave for the advice for Mary and her problem, I knew you were going to say all the right things. :)

[bettyboop]

Just an update , we have made some changes which seem to be helping .Instead of stepping Sammy up when he comes out of his cage, we allow him to come to us and we do not allow him higher than our elbow .

He flies over and we just hold our arm out and he lands perfectly and hangs out . He has not attempted so far to bite or nibble on us .Maybe we were rushing things by stepping him up , this way it allows him to be on us when he is ready . We do return him to the cage top or playstand if he flies to our furniture , This is off limits with all of our animals .

Take care and if anyone thinks we are doing something wrong , please say so .

Best Regards ,

Mary (BETTY BOOP)

[danmcq]

Wow Dave - You said "When a certain color towel is seen, that bird knows it's his turn for the lap but that's the only they asiciate the towel with."

 

What a great idea!! Who would have thought of this but you? We should all think of leveraging the intelligence of our Greys in other ways following this example.

 

Dave - You are Brilliant!!!

 

Betty - Thats great news and sounds like you are taking the right path in building trust and changing behaviour. :-)

[judygram]

danmcq wrote:

Dave - You are Brilliant!!!

 

Good grief Dan are you just now figuring that out, jeez:whistle: :dry: :laugh: B)

[Dave007]

It wasn't meant to be brilliant, just logical. I'm only trying to show that birds can adjust to towels when used for other things besides grabbing him or corraling them. Each of my birds who are being petted on my lap show me their deep appreciation by taking a dump on me. The only thing they associate those towels with is sitting with me. They also know that each towel can be chewed, punctured, pulled at and shredded which is what they do when I stop petting them for a little while. They do that ( and this is a true fact ) simply to get my attention to continue petting. Each knows that I don't like them ripping up the towels.

[danmcq]

LOL - Judy!!!

 

Dave - Your Greys have you trained well, they rip , you pet. :-)

[Lyric]

Mary- I had another thought about your topic. It's possible that Sammy is bored or hungry when he turns and nips at you. This is not acceptable behaviour but perhaps you can stop it before it happens by offering him a favorite treat or snack, or a foot toy to play with before he gets a chance to bite.

Sounds like you are doing better with him though and maybe you don't need my advice! Maybe he just needed some more time to adjust to you and the new environment. Best of luck!

[bettyboop]

Hi Lyric,

Oh no , I want all the tips anyone has to offer . Thats a thought , I will try the treat , I don't think he is bored, I make toys all the time . Weekly , and rotate everyday ....I am always exposing him to new textures , shapes , colors, ...I know how smart this guy is . He watches me one time with a mechanical toy , that is new and he acts fearful of , then when he sees what to do with it , he is ready to play with it . Thank you so much

Mary (BETTYBOOP)

[bettyboop]

Hello LYRIC

I wanted to let you know that when Sammy came out to play yesterday , I offered him apple , almond , and some carrot sticks which he gobbled down quickly . It really did make a huge difference in his over all attitude . He was calmer and less nippy . So thank you for the GOOD TIP.

Kind Regards,

Mary

[Budman17r]

bettyboop wrote:

Hi Judy,

I know that 7 weeks is not long enough to gain his trust .My question is with a new bird that bonding has not taken place , is it correct not to handle them until their is more trust in the relationship? Can bonding take place without handling them ?

He seems so "I'll show you " , or arrogant . Things start off very well , he does the lean in where he wants to be on us , he even says "step up", then after a few minutes , when absolutly nothing is going on, he bites.

Thanks for the tips.

Mary

 

A resounding YES, in my case anyway. My story is in the welcome center.

 

4-5 years passed without Tracy being handled. To the point of not even being able to get him out of the cage.

 

However, he started bonding with me, and now I get puked on, talked to and cooed at constantly.

 

I have no fear when he puts his beak to my hand again, even when he's "angry". This is just in the last 3-4 days. Granted I don't fully trust him, and I'm sure he still doesn't fully trust me, but after all this time I think he realizes not to bite that I'll take other queues so he knows whats up.

 

No physical contact just a lot of interaction over the years.