Keeping him from flying where he shouldn't

[Lyric]

Although I know there are mixed feelings on this forum regarding leaving a bird flighted versus clipping wings- my Tag Lyric has never had his wings clipped. He went through a very clumsy period where he actually broke off all his tail feathers and this affected his flight so much that eventually he stopped flying anywhere except when frightened. This worked well for me because he would stay wherever I put him, I'd have him in the kitchen with me when I prepared our lunch and he could play on his table and be good while I cooked.

Once he actually grew back enough tail feathers to be able to fly properly it took him a while to realize it. A few weeks ago he did realize it and now there's no stopping him. He won't stay where I put him and flies to me constantly no matter how much I put him back where I want him and tell him to stay. I try to always use positive reinforcement with him and not punish him ever, but lately I've had to put him in his cage more often to keep him out of dangerous situations. I feel this has had an impact on him because he can't be out as much, anytime I'm cooking he has to be in a different room or in his cage- he has an obsession with the stove now and lands on it if I leave the room for a second or turn my back on him. I tell him "No!" firmly, "That's Hot!" even though it's not (I don't let him in there if it's hot because I know I can't trust him), and put him back on his table and tell him to stay. I turn my back to do something and he flies to my shoulder.

Any ideas for using positive reinforcement to help get him back under control (without a wing clip?) I'd like to be able to train him to stay off things he shouldn't land on but I'm really not sure how to do it besides moving him off it repeatedly and he doesn't seem to be catching on to this or is doing it for the attention or who knows?

I'd like to know how other people with free flighted birds handle this situation.

[Tari]

Sorry only way I know to get him back undercontral is to clip. You can always let them grow back once he is a well mannered parrot again.

[MommaFawkes]

Im not sure on this either, the majority of my birds are fully flighted. Though for the most part they stay were they are supposed to. But come spring they are all except Pocco, getting clipped. I like to take them shopping for their own toys and treats,my conures love to go to petco and SCREAM their heads off!! LOL!!!

 

Have you weighed the benifits of clipping? Im sure you have, just thinking in this case it may be for the best.

 

Also when he flies to where you dont want him, return him to where he should be give him a treat and tell him to stay. It takes a while but I have heard great things about that method. Good luck!!

[Hannah_Rae]

This is something I might have to try with Juji too. She is such a proficient flyer it shocks me sometimes. I've just gotten used to her exploring for now, but this summer could be a different story.

[danmcq]

Hi Lyric,

 

Unfortunately, you will have a very hard, if not impossible time in training your Grey which areas or items are "Ok" to land on or not. If for example your cool, unused Stove is a good landing place or walk about while exploring, it is ALWAYS a safe place in your Greys mind until he gets burned.

 

Like Humans and other living creatures, most of us learn good and bad, hot and cold etc. from either pain or punishment, not just a "no' or "don't do that, you'll break your neck". :-)

 

If you are going to keep your Grey flighted, you must put him in the Cage when cooking or have guests with children running in and out through the doors etc. Your Grey will do just fine in the cage for an hour or two while you cook or have visitors. :-)

 

In regards getting him to "Stay", that will take many miles of walking, picking him up, returning him to the stand or cage top and saying "Stay". Then teaching him to "Come" at the same time on command. Time, Patience and Consistency is the only thing that will accomplish this.

 

If you don't have the time or desire to go through this arduous process, then a clip is probably in order. Only you know your situation and the safety of your Grey is the most important factor, not convenience, at least in my opinion.

 

The topic of clipping or not has been dealt with many times on this forum with both sides positing great arguments for both sides of the fence. Ultimately, it is your decision that makes sense for you and your Grey. :-)

 

I presently have Dayo flighted and must admit it is a challenge and sometimes we get a good scare, but it's a challenge I am willingly accepting. My wife, is still of the opinion we should clip him for safety and escape reasons and she will KILL me if anything ever happens because I have kept him flighted :dry:. But, that's my desire and I'm sticking to it B)

 

So good luck in your decision, which ever way you decide to go. :-)

[siobha9]

I have a question regarding clipping. Both of mine are fully flighted and always have been. If I were to clip them, what is the transition like? Will they keep trying to fly, or will they learn quickly that they can't fly any longer? I would like to have them clipped (sort of) but am worried about their reactions to losing their freedom.

[danmcq]

Hi Siobha,

 

It would be a shock to them getting their wings clipped the first time. The next shock would be jumping off their cage or somewhere else and then only being able to flap furiously at a 45 degree angle to the ground. You will need to be very careful in doing this and control where they initially learn they can no longer fly. Busting open their breast is the most prevalent injury from hitting the ground too hard due to a poor and improper clip.

 

They will be "earth" bound from then on and reliant upon you to transport them if they cannot run or walk to follow or find you. They will also not be able to escape a dog or cat that may be interested in them if you have any.

 

You will really need to look down before you walk forward or step back. Many times they will be right at your feet looking up and could be seriously hurt if unnoticed.

 

It will definitely be a shock to them for a while if and when you do it.

 

I would assume you have good reasons to clip them or you wouldn't be considering it. :-)

[Ronda477]

To answer Lyric's question I really can't. Mine have always been clipped. Even when we just had our Quaker, I noticed the same things you did where we couldn't have her out much at all. We left her flighted just cause she's a pain to clip, but when she started following everyone everywhere and when my husband was cooking and didn't want her on his shoulder it became a pain in the butt and there just was no way that she was learning no matter how many times we put her back and said no. We just recently clipped her again after almost 6 years. I felt bad because we had her in her cage almost all the time, for when we lived back home she was always out all the time but she was clipped as well. So we just clipped her again and she is happy as can be now. She is out more and gets handled more every evening than she did when she was just in her cage. Sweetheart was always clipped since we got her. And I even cut 2 more feathers off of her because she was putting herself in danger by still being able to fly across the room to the other cage and get her toes bitten.

 

To answer Siobha's question, you can cut their flight feathers and they learn pretty fast on the fact they can't fly. I would suggest what my breeder (from our cockatoo) told us to do. To clip their wings and than put them on the floor so they can see that they can't fly off rather than trying from the top of their cage and it being a big surprise. Just be careful not to clip too many, they are heavy birds and some may be able to cut more than others. I found that out the hard way. So clip just a few now like 5 or 6 and than see how he can fly still. If it suits him fine than leave them be and make a note of how many you cut or had cut. If that still doesn't work well for you cut 1 or 2 more, but for most 8 is enough. Actually 6 usually works well unless you have a determined bird like sweetheart was and would keep flying. But regardless the most important thing is to make sure they can GLIDE to the ground when you clip them. You don't want them to fall to the ground and hurt their breast bone.

[danmcq]

Good Post Ronda :-)

 

In regards how many flight feathers to clip. On a Grey, it is only necessary to Clip the first 4 primaries and then if need be the 5th. Only clip the 5th if they can still fly a long distance maintaining a level or VERY slow drop in altitude. Then the 5th would be appropriate to cut. Since your Greys have been flighted all along, they are probably fairy strong in the chest area and probably will require the 5th cut.

 

If you have never clipped a birds wings before, get a breeder or vet to do it.

 

But, always remember to clip the least and adjust from there. Once cut, it too late and your bird would not be able to flap down at a 45 degree angle and land without harming themselves. :-)

[Ronda477]

Yes I do agree, but for some reason SweetHeart had her 5 clipped when she came to us and could still fly very well. I do know that Joe's are clipped to the 8th feather and the breeder actually told us to just go to the 7th. But Like Dan has said it is important and also like I posted that it be taken slowly cause you can't put them back on lol. Mine was a determined flyer if you remember Dan lol. But can't stress enough on to just take a few at a time cause there is no putting them back on, they are stuck like that till they have a molt.

[siobha9]

I have clipped the cockatiels and budgies, I have never clipped a Grey. I am not sure I could. They are both fine about me extending their wings, and holding them extended. I taught them that for their harnesses. If I were to have them clipped I would ask a vet to do it the first time at least.

 

I am only half heartedly considering it if truth be told. Sometimes it can be annoying if I am doing something and they fly to me. They neither of them understand the word stay! Also Oisin has developed a taste for door frames. I want him to stay on his perch as their is no point in replacing the ones he has chewed unless we can control him.

 

There are lots of little reasons why they would be more manageable if they were clipped and lots of reasons why they shouldnt be. I have read the arguments for and against and am still debating.

 

Siobhan

[Ronda477]

Ultimately Siobha that is exactly what it comes down to for every bird owner. It's what are the pro's and cons of having them clipped. And in our situation it was a must just because the flying to other cages were causing a real problems with toes! And I for one didn't want to have to deal with a missing toe lol. And we have many windows in the house.

 

So just take your time and see what is right for you and your family cause your right, some may be able to have a flighted bird. We can't as I stated above. So good luck to you and your choice whatever decision is made I'm sure it will be a good one for there really isn't a right or wrong one. It's just one that needs to be made for some because of the safety of their birds is all.

 

And I have to say that clipping the Grey's compared to our Quakers was more difficult only because we had to towel her and she was much bigger to hold. Good thing though that you have one step up by spreading their wings!!

[siobha9]

Ronda477 wrote:

And in our situation it was a must just because the flying to other cages were causing a real problems with toes! And I for one didn't want to have to deal with a missing toe lol.

 

Actually that is ALSO a problem in our house! I don't know, if they had come clipped it might have been different. I mean the Caique is the happiest little fellow on earth, despite the fact that one of his wings was literally chopped in half. But Liath and Oisin are so used to their freedom, it would feel like breaking the kids legs or something....

[Ronda477]

Oh I know that is hard, Like I said our Quaker came to us full flighted and she had never been clipped before. She was 3 when we got her. But being that she can be out more and I know she can't land on SweetHeart's cage and vise versa it's better for us knowing they are safe like that. Both of them are out now on their playstands with doors left open to go in and out as they please. And I can honestly see a difference in our Quaker. She is happier being she can be let out more and not have to be put away soo much cause she would keep flying to us, and sometimes when cooking it was just a big danger for her to fly in there to us. It's not like breaking a leg although I'm sure you have read that lol. I know the threads pretty well lol. But after the first time they try they know. And the weird thing is, our Quaker wasn't clipped for about 6 years since we moved here and we just did it again recently, she knew right away and hasn't flown since. But she instead will find her way down the cage, on to the couch and over to us lol. So they still find a way, just not as bad lol. I have never noticed any bad signs with the clipping like them pouting or anything.

[Tari]

I never clip my babies right away. (my quaker babies) I want them to learn to fly and then I do a gradual clip. Just a few feather then a few more a few days later. They are never shocked. And they never hit the floor like a rock.

[Ronda477]

Yes I agree Angie, our cockatoo we are getting will learn how to fly first as well. And than just as long as the person knows how to clip they won't hit the ground, was just letting them know that they can cut too many and that could be bad.

[Lyric]

Thanks for the good advice everyone. I pretty much thought as much, but just thought I'd see if anyone on here had thought of anything useful for training them that I hadn't. I'll just keep putting Lyric in a different room or his cage when I cook.

As far as visitors, we don't have many and the ones we do have don't have kids. The door in the room with Lyric's cage goes out onto a screened in porch so there's a buffer between him and the outside world if he should decide to get adventuresome. Believe me, I think about his safety all the time!

Also, best of luck to you, siobha9, I'm sure whatever decision you make will turn out fine.

[zandische]

Hi Lyric, just wanted to add my experience with Athena (who is also fully flighted). When she first came home she was a holy terror at dinner time, because not only did she want to eat everything on our plates, but she wanted to start eating it while it was being prepared. I got so frustrated that at first I just kept putting her in her cage, but then I decided I didn't really want to teach her that way. So I started working with her and the "Stay" command. It was very hard at first - I think the first few times I did it I had to return her to her perch around 30 times. But every time I would say "Stay!" then walk a few steps away, pause and tell her she was a good bird. Eventually, it just "happened" one night. I took her back to her perch while I was mixing up her dinner and it was about five minutes before I realized she was still there! When I looked over, she had -that- look, as if to say, "I better get a kiss for this!"

 

Since then she's been very good about letting me make dinner and THEN dive bombing me for it. Occasionally she will hop down on the counter and slink past the sink toward the cutting board, thinking I don't see her. Then when I ask her what she thinks she's doing, she chirps as if asking for permission. It is so cute. Back to the perch we go, but usually not without a little piece of whatever veggie I'm cutting up for the effort