NEWBIE ---HOW CAN I STOP CHARLEY BITTING

[birdmom]

hi there. don't give up on him. it may take a while but he may be entering his terrible twos. I recommend Sally Blanchard's book. She covers this type of behavior. First rule out medical problems, then did you make some change in your life or your schedule? Bring home a new person who you are paying alot of attention to? Change the routine, or your schedule changed? Greys can let you know they aren't happy this way. But, otherwise, when my grey got nippy, and after ruling out the other things, I realized he was testing me. After the first nip, I just stuck my whole hand in there and made a fist so no fingers were vulnerable, and I said, Okay, here, bite them all! Go ahead. I said it very calmly and looked right at him. He just looked at me, and didn't know what to do. Sure, the first nip hurts. But you have to stay firm on this. What I did was let him know I wasn't going to be intimidated by biting. I just said 'no biting' very calmly. About a month later, he tried it again. So, I took him right out of that cage, and put him on time out in the Neutral room in a smaller cage, with the door shut and a nice light, food and water. He had to stay on time out for 1 hour. All I said was 'no biting time out.' So, he came back out and a couple hours later, same problem, he went right back into the time out cage. It went on all day, it was a long day but I won. After the third time, which was about a 3 hour time out, he was very nice,making kissing noises to me. It's been a couple weeks now and no biting. He will use his beak to move my finger, but he does not bite me now. He learned what no biting means and it's consequences. I recommend you invest in a second cage, a smaller one, just for travel, boarding or time out in a neutral room. And buy Sally Blanchard's book.

[birdmom]

Hi. He may be testing you. When he bites you do not react no matter how much it hurts. Just say don't bite, and start asking him to step up, laddering him on your hand, making him take step up over and over. That will distract him.

[dicky601]

If you believe the bird Psychologists, you should not allow a bird above your eyeline as you should be the head of the flock as far as the bird is concerned. We have made a point of never allowing Herbie to be higher than us, whether it be our shoulders, his perch or sitting on furniture. He is still only a baby so I will see how it goes but I had a senegal parrot previosly that I let sit on top of doors etc. It got to the point where he would only sit high up in the room. He became a nightmare, extremely violent and impossible to live with. I guess only time will tell if this approach with Herbie will work.

[danmcq]

BirdMom Wrote: "It went on all day, it was a long day but I won. After the third time, which was about a 3 hour time out, he was very nice, making kissing noises to me. "

 

Now that's what I call consistency! Great post and example of how to let your Grey know you set the limits, not them when it comes to biting.

 

The "Fist of Iron" works wonders on letting them know, their bites can and will be taken, with the same result, they lose, you win. :-)

[jessupsmom]

i just signed on yesterday. after reading through most of the posts i decided to jump in on this one. i have a 3 year old cag, jessup that i have had since she was 3 months and i find the information here very confusing and contradictory. some of you say dont allow on shoulder others say do. some say never use time out others say do. i was told by my breeder in the beginning to think that anytime my bird bites it is my fault for allowing it to happen. i believed her. i haven't had a bite in over two years. what did i do? well, the very first time jessup bit me i put her in a small acrylic carrier and put her in the closet with the lights out for 4 hours. the next time i did the same. after 4 times doing this jessup quit biting me. i read a lot that punishment doesn't work on parrots, but i have found, at least for me and jessup, that it works.

[BMustee]

jessupmom - I have to say that is extremely cruel punishment and I’m absolutely appalled by it. I have never heard ANYONE with any kind of knowledge of avian behavior say that locking a parrot in a dark closet for 4 hours is a proper "punishment". I mean, if someone did that to a 3-year-old human child the state would take them away and have charges placed against them for child abuse, so why would it be ok to do it to an animal that has the same intelligence level. I personally think this is very callous behavior on your part and hope to God that no one here follows this sick "advise" of yours. This type of treatment normally leads to feather plucking, self-mutilation, and screaming.

 

And yes, we as a forum are divided on things like timeouts and shoulder privileges, but from everything I have read from NATIONALLY accredited Parrot Behavior experts, not some back hills breeder, a time out done properly can work on some birds, and others it won’t. Some behaviorist say never let your bird on your shoulder; some have pictures with them with their birds on the shoulder. It all boils down to the personality of each individual bird.

[deedee]

i have to agree my pepsi bites me and its getting less and less as the days/months lol go by and she has time outs i put her in her cage and leave the room for half hour and it seems to work cause her bites are no where near as hard or as often as they used to be but i would never dream of putting her in the dark i want trust from her not fear. she is my baby

[birdmom]

Sounds like you are approaching the Terrible Twos. Read Sally Blanchard's book. Also, my male likes to be King of the Mountain--any mountain. He is not ever allowed on my shoulder. My female however, is totally fine on my shoulder, she is a pussycat. You must get to know the bird. Each one is different. Good luck! Birdmom

[birdmom]

Ditto! I'd be scared silly in a dark room. When I put birdie on timeout, it's in my bedroom (neutral room) with a light on or the drapes are open; there's food and water in the timeout cage and I do drop in every 30 minutes or so to make sure he's okay. I think in the dark is scary; you may be training with intimidation and i'm not sure birdy will ever trust you?

[Kasia]

I still cannot take my African Grey home (still not weaned) -- the one with the nibbled off 3 toes. After reading the section in "For the Love of Greys" on biting, there was some mention made of it in regards to fingers, I found that he was always focusing on my fingers.

 

I brought a toy to do the distraction method with. The other method I tried first was placing him on my lap and not letting him have access to my hands. I appreciate all the feedback on this question. Once I bring him home, I will look again to the site and see if there are any more discussions on biting.

 

As he doesn't know me yet, it's comforting to know that I may eventually be able to put him on my shoulder. I tried the "kissy kissy face" and he bit my cheek below my right eye. I guess "kissy kissy mamma" will come in time.

 

[Kasia]

Hi Jessupsmom,

 

I have yet to bring my African Grey home but as I am almost done with "For the Love of Greys" by Bobbi Brinker, I would recommend you check out this book. I got mine used on Amazon.com. It goes into a in-depth discussion on the sensitivity of Greys and how it is more of developing a relationship built on trust than power or fear. I didn't know that Greys are one of the more sensitive of the companion birds.

 

One of the most standout portions I have read so far is that you are developing a relationship with your Grey. To allow the Grey to just be a Grey. It is their world that we must adapt to (to a certain degree of course), but to not try to put a round peg in a square hole, so to speak, and mold your Grey or try to train it as you would a cat or dog (domesticated).

 

On page 27 of the book, if you don't mind me writing some of her suggestions (they are new to me as well so my writing them is just re-instilling them before I bring my own baby home):

 

What are some of the human behaviors that should be avoided if we are to neutralize fear and establish a critically important atmosphere of security and trust?

 

- Isolation as a tool for behavior modification.

- Laddering as an exercise in dominance or as punishment.

- Jerky or unpredictable movements.

- Unsteady, too large, or too slippery perches.

- Dropping the bird to the floor.

- "Earthquaking" or shaking the bird.

- Slapping the cage.

- Glaring.

- Hitting the beak.

- Covering the cage during non-sleep time.

- Shouting.

- Forcing the bird to do something he does not want to do.

 

The consequences to the punisher as a response from the Greys (as well as other companion birds) may manifest itself as:

 

- Withdrawal from all interactions with the punisher.

- Reduction in overall responding.

- Escalation or an increase in aggressive behavior.

- Becoming fearful of anything that is related to or similar to the punishing situation or person.

- Increasing another negative behavior or displaying unwanted behavior at a high rate in another place or circumstance.

 

Again, this is from "For the Love of Greys" by Bobbi Brinker --

 

Kathy

[jessupsmom]

i have looked at this book and consider bobbi brinker inconsistent. anyone who claims we must adapt our world to our birds and then advises on clipping wings does not get credit for making glaring a poor behavior modification tool. i have no problem with wing clipping. jessups wings are clipped. i am just amazed at the people that have problems with time out but no problem with wing clipping. maybe some of you dont consider your bird your pet, but i do. jessup is a well trained grey. she even has a cameo in an upcoming episode of a pretty famous television show. i am not allowed to say which one due to contractual agreements for the time being, but lets just say it is one involving 'desperate' women so i guess i said all of that to say thanks, but no thanks. i dont know about bobbi brinkers birds or any of your birds, but my bird is well trained and doesnt bite or pluck and isnt nervous or aggressive.

[danmcq]

jessupsmom wrote:

Snip- i am just amazed at the people that have problems with time out but no problem with wing clipping.

 

Hi Jessupdmom,

 

I think as you state above we are ALL inconsistent in relation to finding a mutually unimposing environmental middle ground for both Humans and Parrots to live in.

 

We all do our best, based on what knowledge and understanding we have along with all that we can glean from reading books, articles, blogs etc.

 

Each of us, I believe, come to meld all this informational flood into what works for us and our Parrots personalities as we try/fail/succeed and learn from our mistakes and triumphs.

 

I personally do not believe anyone has a perfect philosophy that works in all environments and all individual personalities of Humans and Parrots worlds collide.

 

Each case must be handled one on one.

 

Greys have as diverse personalities as humans. Some are shy, some are boisterous, some are hostile, some are adventurous etc. each must be met in a fashion that fits their personality.

 

I do not believe any of us can judge anothers method of positive and negative reinforcement style, barring outright blatant cruel and unusual punishment, which I have not seen here in my opinion.