planning to get a grey.. TAG vs CAG

[supershaji]

Hi all,

 

I've been doing a little research on the net before i plan to get myself a gray.

 

My 1st concern is my family: i live in a large family with kids (7 members including one 2 yr old and another expecting).

 

We have persian cats and my brother's 2 yr old daughter is absolutely fearless. She loves animals.

 

Now, considering all this, which specie should i go for, a Timneh or a Congo?

 

I heard somewhere that even though the CAGs look biger and more appealing, they cant be trusted with children, etc and will be only one person pets, whereas the TAG's the opposite and very social and moderate.

 

Kindly suggest experts.

 

PS: can a 2 month untamed congo be tamed after he's bought?

[Qweevox]

Hi, let me first say that I am brand new to this forum. In fact, this is my very first post.

 

With that said, I might also add that I have lived with a CAG since I was nine years old. Last year my friend died, I will be 41 next year. He was 7-10 years old when I first got him and not very well socialized, if you look hard I still have some scars to prove it. It was over a year before I could touch his head. It took a long time for us to become friends. If I where you I would not take on an unsocialized Grey. I think only experienced bird people should attempt that. You will in all likelihood end up with a sad isolated Grey that ultimately you give up to a parrot rescue organization or worse give up to some other inexperienced bird person or breeder. Bottom-line DO NOT GET A WILD GREY there are to many good breeders of African Greys there is no reason not to get a well-socialized baby.

 

Second, Greys are great, it does not matter if it is a TAG or a CAG, both are equal in intelligence. However, it is VITAL that they are socialized at an early age and continue to be socialized throughout their long life. I know folks don’t like to hear it but African Greys tend to be one-person birds. You can buck the trend but only with a lot of socialization. With that said, I have four children. All of my kids grew up around my CAG, and Charlie did fine around them, but it took a lot of time. Even though he was not a bitter by the time he met them, he would mouth their hands and figures away. Considering your two year old, you have to remember the bite pressure an adult CAG can administer will remove her index finger in seconds, or leave her scars she will have to live with for the rest of her life. I think it’s important to think about that before you bring an unsocialized Grey into your home with your children.

 

The CAGs and TAGs are equal in intelligence, and character. Both are great birds. They as all wild animals should be treated with respect. Getting a Grey, or any parrot for that matter, is not like getting a dog or cat. Parrots are NOT DOMESTICATED…they are wild animals. It takes a lot of time and attention to make them GREAT friends….but they will never be pets.

 

 

 

:cheer: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[supershaji]

 

 

Hi Qweevox,

 

thank you very much for ur reply. I was very informative.. I'm going to take my research further based on the input im getting from other experienced keepers like urself.

 

u will be hearing more from me for sure.

[Guest]

Qweevox welcome

Personally not having any experience with taming I hear different stories about this. Some people are enthusiastic about the results and others strongly advise against it.

[Qweevox]

The thing to remember with parrots is that they are NOT domesticated. Dogs are domesticated. I live with an English Mastiff and while she weighs almost 200 lbs, she is completely domesticated; a five-year old human can crawl all over her. For thousands of years her line has been partnered with man. They hunted with early man and became tribe members long before the first words where written. Parrots are another story. At best, we are looking at hundreds of years, and never has a partnership of survival been forged between man and bird.

 

Parrots are wild animals. Let me say that again…PARROTS ARE WILD ANIMALS. That’s right, the little green fellow you see in your corner pet store is no more a domesticated animal then the average lion or tiger. I don’t think most people realize that when they buy Polly. A parrot is never going to become a pet. Always remember a parrot is wild, they are exotic animals. The best you can hope for is that they become a friend or companion but you will never domesticate them. You will never turn them into pets.

 

That fact breaks many hearts. Once some people realize that fact it is too late. The bird they bought is going to spend years in isolation or go from home to home until they become so neurotic and antisocial they end up dead or worse…When you take on an exotic animal you take on a lot of responsibility. The weight of these guys can be measured in grams but the bite pressure is measured in thousands of pounds. They can disfigure you seconds. If that scares you, don’t buy a parrot.

 

Scary stuff…

 

I love parrots, I loved Charlie and while he was never a pet, he was a great friend. I get frustrated sometimes because I don’t think first time parrot buyers are given enough information to make an informed decision. In my opinion, buying an African Grey is an obligation that should be taken no less lightly then having a child. It is that serious….

 

The African Grey is intelligent enough to learn your language and communicate with you. While it is a small creature its intelligence is that of a human child, an Einstein compared to your dog or cat. Make them a friend and the rewards are great.

 

Sorry if I came across to preachy or strong…I think parrots are great I just want people to think about the commitment BEFORE they buy.

[Guest]

 

 

What exactly is so much difference between a pet becoming a friend and being domesticated? (Sorry if I sound dumb)

[Qweevox]

It is not a dumb question at all!

 

A domesticated animal species is genetically wired to coexist with man. I wrote about dogs so I will stay with that domesticated species for the purpose of discussion. Dogs became domesticated early in man’s history, probably through some form of partnership between the two species that was mutually beneficial to both like hunting. Today we have hundreds of dog breeds, all shaped by the actions of man. Some species guard our flocks, others our homes, some breeds have been breed to hunt, others to fight. All the different shapes, sizes, colors, and behaviors of the different dog breeds came from one source. Genetically speaking there is little difference between the Jack Russell Terrier from the TV show Frazier and my English Mastiff. Dogs are a thoroughly domesticated animal.

 

A parrot is another story. Parrots are still wild, they have not be kept by humans long enough to substantially modify there behavior. They do not have that genetic wiring which makes them need us. That makes them somewhat different.

[Guest]

 

 

I see, it's all a matter of genes being accostumed to human demands

 

Your explanation is very clear, thank you Qweefox !

[supershaji]

 

 

ok, I'm still not able to find a decent price for a tame grey.

 

as i mentioned earlier, my concern is it's basic character, it has to be socialable & friendly. I have been researching on the internet and most experts say that the less popular Timneh is more accepting and friendly in general as a natural character in it's behaviour.

 

I'm in a dilemma whether to get a TAG or a CAG, what's your take on the TAG Fairy?

 

Mind you, both birds are available to me, but neither are tame.

 

The TAG is about 7 months old and the CAG is about 17 months old. I'l have to train regardless which one i get, I guess the 7 month old TAG would be a safer bet in this case.

 

Say what guys?

 

Shaji

[Guest]

Personally I'd go for the TAG Shaji, also because of the age (younger so easier to tame, I think) and because I also heard the Timneh is a tad more sociable naturally.

 

Maybe other posters can add of their experience - but this is what I would chose...

[supershaji]

 

 

Thanks a lot Fairy, that's what i gathered as well.

Waiting for the others' reply and esp Qweevox's.

 

Doesn't anyone have any experience in taming wild greys here?

 

I also understand from my net study, that these parrots start to talk at about 1 yr of age. well, i guess the TAG's a better option for me at this point, eh? but nonetheless, the Congo sure looks a lot more beautiful generally. Ho well, u cant have it all eh?

[Sticks_n_stones]

We have had a CAG for nine years. Our children are grown but we do have grandchildren. Watson, our CAG, has never liked children. This was not a surprise to us since we had read extensively before getting him. His growl did surprise us, though. Every time one of the children went near him, he would begin to growl and continue until the child went away. He sounded like the meanest guard dog on the planet!

 

Until we moved, his house was near a patio door covered with vertical blinds. He enjoyed playing with the blinds and left large puncture marks with his beak. Don't kid yourself -- the beak of a CAG (and probably other parrots -- can be a near-lethal weapon.

 

Supershaji, I know you are a caring person. Otherwise you would not have done so much research before buying a bird. But I honestly believe that people with very young children are being negligent if they take a wild animal like a CAG into a household.

 

We love Watson and wouldn't trade him for a winning lottery ticket. On the other hand, we respect him for his ability to protect himself, and after all, that is all he's trying to do.

 

Please think long and hard about buying a parrot if you have young children. If you are determined to have a bird, a different species probably would be your best bet.

[supershaji]

Thank you very much for your sincere advice.

 

What's ur take on a TAG?

[Sticks_n_stones]

Don't know anything about Timnahs. All our experience has been with Congos.

 

Sorry I can't help with that.

[TinyTimneh]

Again, please do not buy a grey so young.

 

Both greys have the potential to be good pets.

However your present living situation worries me a bit. Cats are often a large threat to birds, especially if not raised around them. One scratch or bite even if it doesn't break the skin IS FATAL unless immediately prescribed antibotics by a avian vet.

The fearless two year old could also be a problem. Both bird and child must be taught to respect each other. Thus if the bird is giving very clear signals he does not want the toddler to touch him, respect those wishes.

With a child on the way I also think no one in the family will have the time or energy to devote to a sensitive, fragile, demanding baby grey. The grey might wake the baby up, or learn to cry like the infant, also, some become jealous if they feel all the attention is given to another being and not themselves.

There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to the two different grey species. One Congo might be very mellow and love strangers, a Timneh might be very standoffish and snobby. Depends on the individual.

That said, personal experience dictates the Timneh being a little more goofy. All the Congo's I've ever interacted with have been reserved. But again, nothing is written in stone. Ultimately comrs down to what you would prefer look, size snd colour wise. Although perhaps a larger bird like the Congo may be sturdier... or conversely a Timneh will be less imposing because of their smaller size.

[TinyTimneh]

oh and to answer you other question it is certainly possible to tame a grey 2 months after he's bought. In fact, the bird might need a couple weeks to become really settled in and start to bond to your family anyhow. The two birds you are considering are in different developmental stages, the TAG is fairly young and may take more work in terms of teaching independance, good eating habits, etc. but should be fairly mellow. the CAG is at 17 months rapidly approaching what is known in parrot lingo as the 'terible twos' or the developmental stage, which is exactly like what it is with children, they start testing and exploring and asserting indpendance, so may not be as cooperative as the baby TAG, but in contrast should be much less fragile, emotionally and physically as he already has lived life a little bit. So in the end, both birds preaent challenges, just depends on how much and what kind of work you want to put into them.

[Nychsa]

Parrots have such a wide variety of personalities it really depends on the parrot in my opinion. Initially I was thinking along the same lines as you were - I should get a TAG because of the general easier to manage traits. That's not how it worked out though. When I started visiting the breeders, the TAGS wouldn't have anything to do with me, but my Bella, who is CAG, was front and center! And so it was - Bella and I were a fit.

 

I got her at 4 months. She had been lovingly hand fed by two wonderful nurses. She'd been socialized with other birds, and had been taught to step up and "no bite".

 

The breeders told me that she was far more outgoing and human oriented than her brothers and sisters. She loved to snuggle and she was already trying to mimic words at her tender age. Today she is very outgoing, chatty, funny, interactive, and always in the middle of everything, and of course very, very snuggly. But that happens to be Bella. Another AG might be totally different.

 

So, in finding the perfect fit - I think it's important to let the parrot connect with you. Visit the parrots, see how they interact, see who gravitates towards you, watch their personalities. I think you'll know who your next family member is when you meet him/her

 

Good luck and do stay in touch!!

 

Cheers!

Terri

[lovemyGreys]

Nychsa wrote:

 

Good luck and do stay in touch!!

 

Cheers!

Terri

 

I doubt very much they will Terri this thread is from January 07 & they only made a few posts