Being the head of the flock

[dicky601]

Hi Guys,

 

Things had been going well with Herbie up until a few weeks ago. He is still getting on very well with my girlfriend (although he nips her now and again), but he is biting me very badly. It is not all the time, and he can often be playful and loving with me. But out of nowhere he will bite me, and very very hard. He has drawn blood on a number of occasions. I am trying not to show fear but is getting difficult.

 

I am wondering if as he is growing up he is starting to try and be the man of the house. We have lowered the height of his play Gym so that he is below our eyeline - this has resulted in him trying to sit on top of the door all the time. We keep taking him off and putting him back on his play gym, this can be difficult for me to do sometimes if he is in the mood to bite.

 

I'm not sure how to handle this. Our breeder had told us to say no in a stern voice at him when he does something wrong - would I be better to ignore the bad behaviour altogether, say nothing and show no reaction and make a big thing of every time he is good?

 

If anyone has any advice or experience at this age (8 months) then please let me know.

 

Thanks,

 

 

Richard

[danmcq]

Hi Richard,

 

It does sound like he is maturing and developing the awareness of being in control over his domain. he does not think he is the "leader", but he does know he can quell your attempts to have him step-up to get him down.

 

Dayo bites harder and harder the same when he is not ready to step up and be moved. What I would advise is to use the "Fist of Iron" technique. This protects your fingers and soft tissue.

 

What you do is ball your hand basically into a fist and bend you wrist so the skin is tightened, while you have your thumb hidden under your fingers and have him step-up on your wrist.

 

If he bites hard, he can't really grab onto you as hard or break the skin as easily. This gives you the confidence and security you need to display that your not retreating and continue pushing your wrist under his feet until he steps up.

 

Then open your hand so he can get on your fingers using a knife hand cupped. Once he moves onto your fingers, press your thumb against his talons so he cannot jump off and take him where you want him.

 

I hope this helps.

[chapala]

I just wrote an entire reply and tried to find a reference to post on height and dominance, and my post disappeared. Yikes!!!

 

Oh well, here goes another try. First I want to mention Steve Martin's website, Natural Encounters. He is a well known parrot trainer in Florida and has partnered with Susan Friedman, PhD, also very well known in pararot and animal behavior circles. Please scroll down and read about what he says on height dominance in parrots:

 

http://www.naturalencounters.com/trainingEducationFaqs.html

 

And, please do not continue to worry about where he is perching, lowering the playstand, etc.

 

As I'm sure you know, parrots often choose a favorite person, and it appears that your Grey has chosen your girlfriend. I strongly suggest that he be trained to a stick perch, using treats, positive reinforcement, going slowly so that he is not at any time frightened of the stick. The stick is simply a way to move him when he needs to be moved and is not in the mood. A way to avoid a bite.

 

My opinion is that ignoring bites is a bad idea - the bird is trying to communicate with you, and most likely showed body language even before the bite. He will continue to escalate (bite and bite harder) if it seems that you're not getting the message. I think it's very important to read the body language and avoid the bite whenever possible.

 

We have a Military Macaw and I am not her favorite - she is very bonded to my husband. Over the years, I have worked on developing a relationship with her and have been bitten only once (an ambush) in the past five years. I am the treat giver. Most of the time she will step up for me, usually on a stick. I can bring her in from the aviary, take her to my husband, etc., and she is quite good with me. This has taken awhile. But I don't do things like stick my hands in her cage and start moving toys around. I avoid the bite, and encourage positive interactions. We have come a long way, but I don't ever expect to hold the same place with her as my husband does.

 

There are some other articles on Steve Martin's site that deal with biting. A little hard to find but worth looking for. Good luck in working with your Grey!

Reta

 

Post edited by: chapala, at: 2007/12/28 20:42<br><br>Post edited by: chapala, at: 2007/12/28 20:44

[dicky601]

Thanks for the help. Really interesting link, will have a good read of that.

 

And thanks for the tip Dan, I had already started to use that and it does seem it work.

 

Also I have read that Greys need 10-12 hours sleep a night, Herbie often gets around 8, so we're going to try putting him to bed earlier.

 

Thanks again.

[danmcq]

Hi Dick - As Reta stated, you should pay close attention to his body language and if he is telling you he doesn't want to be bothered right then, you should just let him be. Unless you need to put him back in his cage or move him for a specific reason. That way, he has some space and time of his own and free will. :-)

 

Reta - In regards stick training and using it in place of a persons hand. I can certainly understand your reason for doing so.

 

But, in my step-up training with my Wild Conure. The perch/stick training worked, but he was still fearful of my hand. My goal was to not only teach him to step-up, but to also find hands acceptable and good. Thus I worked my hand closer and closer to him over a period of a couple weeks on the perch I was using until he pretty much had to at least brush my hand when getting on the perch. Finally, I dumped the perch, put up with some good bites and got him to step-up on my hand.

 

I would be afraid, that if you start using a perch instead of your hand to have your previously trained Parrot to step, he may get to where he never wants you hand to be used again and you lose, so does the Parrot in scratches etc.

 

Don't you think it is better to get the Parrot that is starting to show it's need for space and time to itself, to still accept your hand?

 

I am not intending to counter your great advice and link you provided, but I am wanting to understand more of your reasoning on this. :-)

 

UGH - I have lost a lot of typing, as you did, it hurts :pinch: LOL

 

Thanks for contributing all the great advice you consistantly do on this Forum!!

[MazyAK]

Lots' of great advise, so I'll throw my 2 cents in.

Stay with the hand and avoid going to the stick. You will lose in the longterm there. Use the balled fist and some birds such as mine definitely favor one of my hands over the other. So, use the hand the bird likes.

Your bird is in the maturing stage which is probaly a factor in this behavior. Time will take it's course on this issue. Make sure you show your bird equal attention as you do your girlfriend (and visa- versa) avoiding any developing jealousies.

Good luck

Bruce & Mazy

[chapala]

Sorry for double post!

Reta<br><br>Post edited by: chapala, at: 2007/12/29 01:12

[chapala]

Re using a stick, I am far from the only person recommending this approach at times, and only at times. I almost always handle my Kali on my hand, no problems. But occasionally I go north for a visit and my husband is here for a week or 10 days taking care of the animals. If he could not handle Kali on a stick, Kali would be in the cage for the entire time.

 

With Kali and other birds I've used a stick with, there has been absolutely no problem going back to the hand. The stick is just another way of stepping up, not a substitute for the hand. Now I do have a friend with a hormonal male DYH. She finished his hand-feeding so has had him since he was a baby, and he was very tame. When he reached maturity, for several months of the year, she must handle him with a stick or get bitten. With a stick, she's able to move him around from his day cage to night cage to shower, etc., instead of just letting him sit. So I see using a hand-held perch/stick as a way of having more interaction with a bird who may be moody for some reason. I try to avoid moving a bird that doesn't want to be handled. But, sometimes we're leaving and the bird has to go back in his cage. The stick handles the bird nicely without inviting a bite. I see it as a useful tool, and haven't seen any regression to not wanting to step up on a hand from using one.

 

Now, when stick training first before the bird is hand tame, yes, you do have to take that extra step and work on getting the bird familiar and comfortable with hands. They are two separate things for the bird to learn about. I usually choose to familiarize the bird first with hands, later with a stick. But sometimes with a fearful bird, it's possible to get him out of the cage with a stick and into another location for training, where it might not be possible with a hand at first.

 

Reta

[danmcq]

Thanks Reta, for expanding on usage of a stick for getting your Parrot to step-up and transporting them around when necessary. This makes perfect sense and completes the circle nicely. :-)