Friendly nips or war?

[Nychsa]

Hi everyone,

 

I may be posting this in the wrong area, so my appologies to the moderator and admins if I am.

 

I have a general question about nips/nibbles:

 

The evening is our snuggle time on the couch: Bella, my CAG sits on my arm with her head tucked under my head, Jiggy, my conure is usually restless and bounces between my shoulders, preening my hair, or nibbling on some part of my hand. My male greyhound Doc is drapped across my legs which are up on the couch and my female greyhound Dream is at the foot of the couch - so we're all rather close and if a tiff were to breakout, I think it could get messy really fast.

 

Lately Jiggy and Bella have been sitting VERY close to each other. Bella with her head tucked under my chin and Jiggy on my shoulder and there beaks are about 1 inch away from each other. Jiggy very frequently reaches over to her, his beak open and just kind of touches her beak. She usually opens her eyes, and maybe opens her beak and touches his back. Since I'm not familiar with Bird body lanuage, I'm not sure if these nudges are just friendly nips or is this a prelude to war. Since my nose is very close to all of this I really would like to know if these guys are working there way up to a brawl or are these love nips?

 

Any insights on bird body language would be appreciated! Everything I'm finding on the web is not very detailed - just generalizations.

 

Thanks!

Terri<br><br>Post edited by: Nychsa, at: 2007/12/20 01:04

[Guest briansmum]

i don't know much about bird to bird body language. but if your conure is disturbing your grey then there is every possibility it could get nasty. if i were you i would put them on a stand next to eachother to see what happens.

 

this way you are subsituted for the stand and you get to see what they do when occupying the same terratory (ie you)

[birdmom]

Sounds like they mutually tolerate sharing you. My only concern may be that the grey is on your shoulder, they can get dominant when they reach maturity (4-5 years) So, if he is the only one who gets to go there, he may view it as his territory. Or not you'll find out. :J)

 

So, the little guy under your chin, thats really cute, got a picture of that? I guess the jugular isn't too far from either of them, and with those dogs on your legs....well, you'd be hard pressed to get up in a hurry if a fight did break out. BUt I think their behavior is normal dont you guys? joanne :huh:

[ziggy]

If you look in the training room there is a tread that I posted on body language. Read it and you should get some answers to your question on there.

[BMustee]

Well, As you all know I work at a pet store with a ton of birds and I see the spats they have all the time. There are 8 macaws in one pit and they get along just fine. I have seen the behavior that you are talking about with them and i have never seen it go into an all out cage match. We have some Nanday conures in another pi that start fights and when a fight is on the mind it normally doesn't start with just a few beak bumps...it's basicly go time from the start.

[danmcq]

Hi Terri,

 

So far what you describe is just friendly "hey, I love Ya and am here", and that is what your Grey is returning. It sounds like they have developed a very good relationship so far.

 

If your Grey was annoyed, it would be a quick snapping motion that Jiggy would alert from.

 

Your verbal description paints a beautiful mental image of the two cuddling with you. :-)

[Nychsa]

Greetings everyone,

 

Thank you for the replies.

 

Joanne, right after I read your post, I put them on the perch together. They both flew back on to me LOL!

 

BM, when I read your post, I was wondering if I need to think of bird body language as being something species specific. As you described your conure population - Jiggy (the conure) is much more "fight" oriented then Bella, my grey - in fact, I don't think fighting is even on Bella's mind. She is very mellow and loving. But Jiggy always has some issue, some cause he's attempting to defend!

 

He also knows when he's pushed something over the line. He loves to pull the little hairs on my arms, and sometimes he'll get my skin. He knows from the past that I'll scootch him away if he does that, and if continues to do it I'll scold him (I put my raised finger in front of his beak and say 'no bite' very sternly - that gets his attention!). So, now when he does something like that he pre-emptively squawks before I even scootch him along.

 

This is the reason I was concerned he might be picking a fight with Bella so close to my nose LOL!

 

He does the same thing with Bella. If she's sitting somewhere, he just CAN'T resist trying to take just a little nip, usually her tail. And he leans over, very carefully, and just tries to just get one little nip in. In the past, Bella has whirled around and pecked him on the noggin very quickly! And of course he screeches and runs off.

 

So I wasn't sure if this beak touching was one of those things - she has her eyes closed, sitting on my bent arm, with her head tucked underneath my chin, and he's on my shoulder, and he very slowly, very cautiously, reaches over with his open beak and touches her beak. If she was going to whip open her eyes and nail him, my nose would be in between! LOL!

 

Either way - I tried to find some research data on greys in the wild and it was very interesting to find out that there really hasn't been a good deal of research done on greys in the wild. I think understanding how they interact in the wild would go a long way to understanding how they interact in a community/flock.

 

I found a list of common bird body language just about on every site, including this one here, I came across - the pinning of the eyes etc.. But, really nothing that was specific to how greys relate to each other or other animals.

 

One article I found indicated that the grey's intelligence and speaking abilities may have evolved the way it did because they are primarily ground foragers and need to co-exist with other animals who are on the ground and who may not be birds.

 

I see potential examples of this kind of adaptive behavior between Bella and my dogs. She clearly sees herself as part of their community. In the morning, when the dogs collect around me for breakfast, Bella comes flying in and stands right there with them, waiting for her breakfast as well. When someone strange is in the house and talking to me, she seeks refuge with my male greyhound. She is keenly interested in the dog's activities outside and she has attempted to follow them outside when they run off. As for other bird types, we do know she protects Jiggy.

 

So - while a lot of the literature seems to suggest greys only flock with other greys, I'm wondering if research will eventually shed more light on how greys actually interact across different species. I believe there has been a new study commissioned and is just getting underway. I'm going to follow that one very eagerly!

 

Cheers!

Terri

[Christina]

Very interesting topic. I was hoping for a bit more input from people who have multiple birds of different species. I have a grey and a b&g...the b&g, like BMustee described her pit of macaws, is one laid back dude. Finnigan is a bit more high strung (okay, alot and she tries to back Loki down all the time). Finni and Loki will do the beak thing...but they have such a large size difference, that I usually back them away from one another if they get that close. I just can't decide if they are being friendly or working up to a confrontation and I don't feel comfortable waiting to find out.

[Nychsa]

Hi Christina

 

That's exactly what I'm wondering. If these were two dogs, it would be pretty easy for me to tell what's about to happen next. They're almos tlike my kids used to be! They didn't want to be separated, but would fuss and squable all day long! No altercation between Jiggy and Bella has been serious - it usually just involves warning pecks. I've never seen Bella go after him with an open beak - she just pokes him. She has grabbed his tail and actually broke a feather once - but frankly - he started that one.

 

Cheers!

Terri

[BMustee]

Yeah, thats exactly what I see everyday...birds that like eachother will bicker like an old married couple. I wouldn't be too worried about them.

[Christina]

Good to know BMustee! Thanks for the input and the great topic Nychsa. I think I'll still keep seperating them though. That is funny about the tails, my two are constantly grabbing for one another's tail! They are a hoot.