Have I been dumped?

[KatB]

I think Oliver has dumped me for his vet's assistant.

 

It's been almost 2 weeks since I had to take Oliver to the vet for his blood work and DNA, and he has been angry at me ever since. Here's what happened.

 

He hates his travel carrier. He hadn't been in it since I brought him home almost 2 months ago, but I had placed it near his cage a couple of weeks ahead of the vet appointment so he could get used to it. Every day we played around it, and I put pine nuts inside it for him to fetch, and although I hadn't been able to get him to go into it, he wasn't scared of it any longer. When it was time to get him into his carrier to drive to the vet, he somehow knew what was coming. When I reached into his cage to get him to step up, like I did several times a day up to that point, he attacked my hand and scrambled for a corner of the cage. When I moved toward him, he attacked my hand again and squawked and rushed to a different corner of the cage. I tried to be patient and let him calm, but the time came when we had to leave so I put on leather gloves and just captured him and put him in the carrier. He flapped and panicked and squawked and you would have thought he was being murdered. I felt horrible for having to do it, but once inside the travel carrier he seemed fine, and didn't fight any longer, just peered out of the little window and seemed interested in what was going on.

 

At the vet's office, he came out of the carrier onto the vet's table and was very well behaved. I asked them to check for broken blood feathers since the "capture" was so traumatic, and sure enough there was a broken blood feather. The vet decided to put him to sleep and do the nails, pull the blood feather, get the blood for the CBC and the DNA, and get everything done before he woke up.

 

When he woke, he was drunk as a lord. The vet's assistant brought him back into the room where I waited and he looked up at her as if she were an angel. I could almost hear him saying "I love you, man!" And ever since he has tried to take a bite out of me any time I get close enough.

 

Do you think he is he still angry about the travel carrier, or do you think he transferred his affection after that one visit with the vet? I thought if I remained patient and loving he would come around, but it's been almost 2 weeks and I'm beginning to get worried.

 

Boy, do I ever sound like an insecure teen-ager! :pinch:

[ziggy]

hello KatB,

how old is Oliver? This may be a faze with him. Greys go through fazes. First they are your best friend then he is best friends with someone else. Greys are very smart it could be that Oliver knew he was going to the vet(some way of knowing he was uncomfurtable). Birds have a great memory so this could also be the reason for the sudden turn on you. Birds can loose trust in a human very easily especially if he went through a tramatic experiance. The glove could have spooked him, or knowing that you did it to him he might be holding a grudge. this is all in theory.

[KatB]

Hi, Ziggy,

Oliver is 21 months old. I do hope it's a phase and was going with that theory until I read about Mazy's dad, who saw her only a couple of times a year for years and she never gave up her bond with him. I know a grey will choose his person, but what happens when there's nobody in the house he wants to bond with? Ever heard of that happening?

[birdmom]

Oh wow! Well I don't think it was the vet assistant, because the problem started b4 you even left your house. See? You know, I find that my greys sometimes just don't feel like coming out of their cage. Regardless of whether the carrier is there, or not. This could just be a power struggle associated with the terrible two's kind of a phase, how old is he? 21 months? Sounds like Oliver is heading into terrible twos. Sally Blanchard wrote a book and she really delved into the stages in their development, and they go thru terrible twos. Then many also go thru another period later on when they approach sexual maturity, but that varies by breed I believe.

 

Buddi went thru a 'flocky" period as I called it she really tested me for about 3-6 months when she was between 2 and 3. I later figured out it was the color of my nail polish that triggered it initially, on one particular occasion. Anyway, now when I know I am going to have to get them out of the cage for an appointment or a bath, I open the cage door well b4 and have them step-up, or if they don't feel like it, I let them climb out on their own, and then I promptly shut the cage door so they can't go back in. Just today in fact, I had to entice Charlie out with almonds because Buddi had just had her shower, so he knew. Now, the crate is another story. I think Buddi goes in the crate well bcuz I travelled across country with her several times, and she enjoys rides in the car, she likes to go with me.

 

But now Charlie, his previous owner told me I'd have a time of it getting him in there but she watched with astonishment while I just placed him in there b4 he had a chance to protest. His crate has a wire door on top also, so I just open it up first then pick him up off a perch, and put him in top down: I hold him on my right fingers and lock him down with my thumb, have him facing my body and I place my left hand gently over his wings, then I lower my hands down into the crate so fast he can't grab onto anything and then I just let him go by flicking my fingers and he steps off. While he is getting his footing on the floor of the crate, quick as a bunny I close the lid. Why don't you try that, and put the crate where he can't see it, in a neutral room outside his territory. Then go for rides in the car and just come home and he will start to realize it can be fun. Play the radio and sing in the car and so on just have fun driving around the block. LOL. Well good luck!

 

Post edited by: birdmom, at: 2007/12/01 14:19<br><br>Post edited by: birdmom, at: 2007/12/01 14:31

[KatB]

Thanks, Birdmom. I leave his cage door open all the time when I'm at home and he's usually on his play top or hanging out on one of the exterior perches. The only reason I can come up with for why he wouldn't come out that day is somehow he knew he was going to the vet. Even when he doesn't want to come out he doesn't react that way when I put my hand in the cage. I wish I could have found a better way to get him into the carrier that day. I started about 30 minutes before we had to leave and thought I would have plenty of time to do it gently, but Oliver had his own ideas!

 

My plan was to introduce him to the carrier slowly and take him for "fun" rides before we had to go to the vet, but I was not able to get him to go willingly into the carrier before the "necessary" visit. I had read about a slow process of playing near the carrier, playing on the carrier, playing inside the carrier, walking around the room with him in the carrier, going to the car in the carrier, driving around the block in the carrier, etc. as a way of making him feel safe and happy in there, but we didn't get past the "playing near the carrier" part in two weeks.

 

I'm continuing to work with it, but needless to say, the vet vist set us back a bit. Before the visit he would stretch his neck into the carrier far enough to pick up a pine nut in there. Now he won't walk within a foot of it!

[BadKarma]

This may sound stupid but were you apprehensive about taking him to the vet. If so he could've picked up on that. As far as him still being testy, if you take me to see the doc you'll be on my badside for awhile to. Eventually it will pass. Of course YMMV

[KatB]

Yes, I was definitely apprehensive about putting him into the carrier, because I knew how much he hated it and how painful it could be for me. You're probably right, that he picked up on my dread. I hope you're also right that it will pass! I've never done so much kissing-up. My nose is turning red from all the contact with his tail-feathers!

[danmcq]

Good point Badkarma, I was thinking the same thing while reading the build-up to D-Day.

 

Greys and other Parrots are so sensitive to our emotions. I don't know how, but they are.

 

KatB - He will come around...in time. It does sound like a combination of terrible two boundary testing, fits and "I won't treat my kids like that when I grow up" :-) The Gloves and struggle to get him into the travel cage impacted his attitude towards you, with out a doubt. He will get over. Just be calm and patient with him.

[KatB]

Thanks for the encouragement. At least I feel like there's hope, now!

[Dave007]

The next time you have to use that carrying case, have you and and another person deal with the situation. That confuses the bird and it'll help you grab the bird even if it's in an awkward way. Try not to use gloves. That's something they WILL remember for a while afterward. No, he hasn't switched over to the tech. He was nervous and even the vet could see that the bird would be hard to handle so he tranquilized him. Birds don't switch affections so quickly and never when he/she is visiting a place and person. Don't put a carrier near the bird to see. It's not a cage he'll be living in. Compare that to a playstand--you take a playstand and put it near his cage. He constantly checks it out but doesn't go on it. You decide to put him, on it and he flies away.If you're having a hard time getting him out of his cage simply use a small perch instead of your hand. Put him on the floor between you and the person. Have the other person hold a towel, quickly put it around him and slip him into the carrier. When coming home, open his regular cage door, put open carrier door against open cage door and let him come out on his own. Because he's pissed at you for taking him out, the last thing he wants to do is go through more handling to back in the cage. He'll stay pissed off for a while--could be 2 days or 2-3 weeks.The numbers vary. Depends upon the bird. Just ignore him and he'll come around to his regular routine. Birds don't hold grudges and just like humans, they don't fall in love with their doctors and nurses.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/12/01 19:44

[KatB]

:laugh: Thanks for the advice, Dave :laugh: I'm happy to know I probably haven't lost him to the vet tech. Next time (which I hope doesn't happen for a loooonnng time) I'll try the double-team approach, and I'll move the carrier to a different part of the house. I think I'll continue to work with him around it a little while each day, to see if I can get him to be less afraid of it, but I'll wait a while before I get back to it to give him a chance to forgive and forget.

 

Kat

[judygram]

Oh Kat you have had a hard time of it haven't you, but he will come around eventually like Dave said, some of them get very pissed off over things and it takes a while for them to get over it but he will.

[Nychsa]

Yes, I was definitely apprehensive about putting him into the carrier, because I knew how much he hated it and how painful it could be for me. You're probably right, that he picked up on my dread. I hope you're also right that it will pass! I've never done so much kissing-up. My nose is turning red from all the contact with his tail-feathers!

 

Hi Kat,

 

We noticed quite quickly that Bella reads emotions like a book. My business partner loves her dearly, but he's terrified of her beak and her talons, and she plays that for everything it's worth! She growls at him every time she sees him. She growls at him when he's sitting, standing, when he's giving her a carrot. And then when he's in the living room, she flies over to him, and sits right next to him and lets him know that's HER spot! The other being she growled at is our neighbor's little pooch, and my grand daughter when she raced past Bella startling her. So, my partner is quite distraught about her growling at him, but I can clearly see she's playing him!

 

So, I'm convinced they can pick up on the slightest flucutation in moods!

[KatB]

Good news, I think he's decided to forgive me! He's started asking for scratches again, and last night when we were playing on the floor before bedtime he climbed into my lap. I don't think I'm totally trusted yet, but at least he's speaking to me again.

[KatB]

Nychsa, it sounds like your business partner is Bella's entertainment :laugh: I'm suprised Oliver hasn't taken a dislike to my almost-three-year-old grand daughter. She has been living with me for the past three months and can be quite the peace-disturber on occasion. But Oliver just watches her with interest sometimes and ignores her mostly. For her part, she respects his space and doesn't even attempt to put her hand withing reach of his beak, although she does like to stand in front of his cage (at a safe distance) and talk to him.

[danmcq]

Nychsa - As you know, Bella will continue having fun tormenting your business partner until they change their emotions and body language. It is just like school yard bullies, it's fun to watch the cowering sissy flinch everytime you say BOO :-)

 

KatB - That's good news on the quick turn around with him. I am sure you are relived and you two will be enjoying each others companionship at a much more intimate level as time goes forward. :-)

[Nychsa]

danmcq wrote:

Nychsa - As you know, Bella will continue having fun tormenting your business partner until they change their emotions and body language. It is just like school yard bullies, it's fun to watch the cowering sissy flinch everytime you say BOO :-)

 

LOL Dan, I had no idea she would have such a wicked sense of humor! She has such a sweet disposition - to think she enjoys terrorizing my partner is just a hoot. He sits in my kitchen watching her forage around on her playtop, watching the dogs outside, happily chattering away - he could watch her for hours! But the minute he gets up, she growls and he is clearly distressed by it LOL! I could swear I see her grinning!

[danmcq]

LOL Nychsa - I'll bet she is grinning, completely basking in her fear inducing self :evil:

[birdmom]

Yes,

 

Greys are big testers. The first thing my birds did was test me. I didn't flinch at the first test nip; I said "Oh Yeah? Try it again, here": and I offered my entire fist. You know what they do? They cock their head sideways, and look at your hand right under their nose, they they look at you to check your face. You can see them thinking, Hmmm this human is verrrry interesting....not afraid of me and my pointy beak. Then I say, "Please don't do that." They look at me. Then I offer a finger and say: "Don't bite." If they don't try to bite it, then I immediately tell them Good Bird and they get an almond. (They never did). (If they did, I'd try the same thing again. However, if I get nailed, then they go immediately on timeout in a neutral cage in another room. There's a post on that.)

 

They learn very quickly that I'm good for an almond, if they don't do it. So right away I taught them, Don't bite, and what constitutes Good Bird.

 

You know, if your bird is flighted it's no wonder its getting territorial with your partner. Your bird is probably in love with you and views you as its partner, and that guy is the competition. You may want to consider trimming wings, and limit birdies territory while you correct this behavior.

[Jane08]

Sorry this is all new to me but I have never heard of anyone actually putting on gloves and grabbing their grey to put it in a travel cage. No wonder the bird was pissed, I would be as well if someone physically grabbed me and forced me in somewhere.

 

I know this is just my opinion but I would never physically touch our grey unless he wanted me to touch him. A few times I have been late for work because he has not wanted to go into his cage and he can sense my stress and acts up even more. I have to sit down for 20min or so and calm down and try again and think of another method to get him in. It usually involves the perch that we have on the door. I get him to that perch and before he knows it I close the door and he is inside the cage. One day I even attached string to the door so he sat there on that perch thinking to himself ok she is on the soffa she can't shut the door and I gently pulled the string and suddenly he realised the door is closed and he is in the cage.

[birdmom]

Yes I thought so too. Maybe the bird knew what was coming bcuz either: the crate was in sight, or, she spoke about it, and the bird know English. They are very smart. I am sure my birds know English. Especially keywords such as, go to the vet/doctor, put him in crate, get him out of his cage, things that he hears often enough to learn their meaning quickly.

 

She may have to learn not to say the exact words, but use code words, much the same as people do around small children; I used to own Border Collies and instead of saying Go For a Walk ( which started squalor) I had to spell it out Go for a w=a=l=k.) After a while, they knew that Go For A ....anything, usually resulted in a walk. Those dogs are so smart.

 

So are the AFrican Greys. I think Kat B, you may need to watch what you say in front of him; you may be tipping him off. Is that possible? Also, don't let him see the crate. GEt him out of his cage first. Then take him to the room where the crate is located. Good luck. joanne

[KatB]

LOL, Jane, that's funny! I'll bet he was completely bewildered when he found himself inside the cage with you on the other side of the room.

 

Joanne, I was alone in the house that day, so I don't think I mentioned going to the vet. I suppose I could have said something about it on the phone, but more likely he read my apprehension. I really was dreading having to put him into that carrier!

 

I'm new to keeping a parrot, and in retrospect I realize I made a very, very bad move. The vet would have refused to see him if we were 15 minutes late and I likely would have had to wait 2 weeks for another appointment, so I'm not sure what the answer would have been. Toweling? Seems to me that would be equally as bad as the gloves. Cancelling the vet appointment? No treat in the world was going to entice him out of that cage and into the carrier, so bribing him wasn't an option.

 

Of course the best answer would be for him to WANT to go into his carrier. Now that he's acting friendly toward me again I'm going to start taking him into another room with the crate and playing games with it and try to get him to enjoy going into it.

[Nychsa]

Jane08 wrote:

Sorry this is all new to me but I have never heard of anyone actually putting on gloves and grabbing their grey to put it in a travel cage. No wonder the bird was pissed, I would be as well if someone physically grabbed me and forced me in somewhere.

 

I know this is just my opinion but I would never physically touch our grey unless he wanted me to touch him. A few times I have been late for work because he has not wanted to go into his cage and he can sense my stress and acts up even more. I have to sit down for 20min or so and calm down and try again and think of another method to get him in. It usually involves the perch that we have on the door. I get him to that perch and before he knows it I close the door and he is inside the cage. One day I even attached string to the door so he sat there on that perch thinking to himself ok she is on the soffa she can't shut the door and I gently pulled the string and suddenly he realised the door is closed and he is in the cage.

 

I think if I were to approach Bella with gloves on she'd freak out too.

 

But as for touching her if she doesn't want it, there I don't think I'm quite in agreement, particularly if her health is invovled.

 

I'm finding out really fast that Bella is VERY smart and she certainly tests the waters to see how far she can get with something. She knows that if she starts chewing on the window shades (which I have no idea if there is something that is dangerous to her or not, so I'd rather she not do that!), I'll get up and tell her "no,no, no" - I look her right in the eye and raise me finger in front of her and frown. She knows what I mean because she promptly wants to give "kisses" after that (oh, and I melt when she gives kisses LOL!).

 

But the minute I sit back down, she goes for it again, so I get up, and before I get there she runs off knowing that I don't want her to do that! So, we go through this drill a couple of times until I actually pick her up and put her in her cage for a little time out. She squawks furiously when I do that, but I know she's testing the waters with me and she is TOO intelligent for me to let her have control like that! It's not like she wouldn't have appropriate toys to play with - she has more toys then most kids do! It's just that one thing she wants to see if she can get away with, and I KNOW she's a mischief maker!

 

In addition, her beak gets VERY messy between fruits, yams, noodles you name it! So, I do hold her head and clean her beak. She squawks about it, but we've gotten used to that routine now, and while she still protests, she's much better about letting me clean her beak.

 

When I show her something new, like her carrier that she hasn't seen in a while, I've found that if I can hold her close to me and whisper in her ear and we look at the new thing "together" , she's much more inclined to go along with it.

 

Cheers!

Terri

[judygram]

Josey goes into her travel cage with no problem and I think it is because she goes with me occasionally to work and so forth. She is used to going places other than the vet's office so it is a pleasant experience and if you do that sort of thing then the carrier is more inviting a place to get into.

 

I would never resort to using gloves to get a hold of her, it would freak her out and I wouldn't blame her, I wouldn't want someone coming at me like that.

 

I too clean her beak off after she has had her morning breakfast, that oatmeal and baby food mixture is messy and I just hold her head and clean it off, she protests a little but otherwise is fine after I finish the job. I may just be lucky and have a grey that is more easy going than some of you have, she is a delight to have.

[birdmom]

Hi Judy,

 

Buddi gets quite a messy beak too and she seems to like it when I wipe off her face. She holds still while I wipe it off with a kleenex tissue but she also likes to try and bite the kleenex, so it's a little game we play...I think she prefers that to wiping it off on a perch. It took a while, I don't think she let me do that for about six months after I got her.