KatB Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I thought it was odd, too. If they have them at all, I would think they would keep them in the same place they keep the bulbs? Anyway, I googled it this morning and I'm beginning to think that T12 might be on its way out, to be replaced with the more efficient T8. If that's the case, perhaps the T8 full-spectrum bulbs just aren't in ready supply yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Hi KatB, T12 and T8 sizes have beenn around for decades and will not be discontinued or phased out for several more uears, if ever. There are T8 and T12 full spectrum Tubes availabel in limited loctions. They are not the high volume sellers like cool white etc. Home Depot Online does show this fixture for example: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100043531&categoryID=502059 and you get order these tubes: http://www.sunalux.com/s_lightbulbs.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatB Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Thanks, and Karma To You for all your help I actually ordered a T12 setup this morning, complete with a 5500K CRI 91 lamp from http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=663&rn=3215&action=show_detail I figured since I was having trouble finding a T8 full spectrum bulb locally, best thing would be to order a T12 so I could at least find the bulbs without too much trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Oh KatB, your more than welcome. I am glad you found a good setup for your grey, thank you :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 I am resurrecting this thread on Avian Lighting. I have studied the many sources of information of both Parrots and the Lamps themselves and have come to final results and have built my first assembly from scratch along with obtaining the best on Market Fluorescent tubes suited for Parrots. I will be posting a lengthy read with photos of the parts used, some assembly, installation and the lamp types used. Hopefully, I will complete this today. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatB Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 I'm looking forward to reading it, Dan. And I'm sure many parrots out there are going to be thanking you for a long, long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyGreys Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 I look forward to your findings Dan, It certainly is a subject that members should be more aware of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 (edited) Avian Lighting Part One: In researching all the Avian lighting resources I could find, in regards what is required, recommended and why. I started comparing every manufacturer of claimed Avian Lighting and manufacturers that do not publish to or specifically advertise to the Avian industry, us. I will begin with an overview of the components of light itself and how it is crucial to the health and well being of our companion Avian friends. What the experts say in a nutshell regarding this: Ultraviolet light is present all the time outdoors during the day, even on cloudy days. You may have heard that ultraviolet light is bad for us and that we must protect ourselves from it. That is partly correct and partly incorrect. Ultraviolet (UV) light is commonly divided into three sections depending on its wavelength: near-UV (UV-A), mid UV (UV-B), and far UV (UV-C). UV-A tans and can burn us with over exposure. UV-B stimulates the production of Vitamin D3 in our skin and is essential for the absorption of calcium into bones. UV-C is another story. Although used in hospitals to kill bacteria and viruses, UV-C is widely considered to increase the risk of cancer. Fortunately, most of the UV-C that the sun gives off is blocked by the ozone layer of the earth's atmosphere. With the brief overview of the three UV bands above, we only need to consider UV-A and UV-B in relation to or Birds and ourselves. What we Humans see of the light spectrum: What our Avian friends see: UV-A (315 - 400 nm) In high doses or for prolonged periods can harm our skin, but is necessary for our Parrots to perceive the World around them with all their visual spectrum capabilities they have. It Lights Up if you will, their world, that appears grey, brown, black etc to us, but to them, it allows them to observe a much different and color filled perspective. The cobalt wings of Morpho butterflies reflect UV light into the eyes of our Parrots to a brilliant display of colors. Some birds of prey can track rodent movement via UV emissions from the rodents' urine. They also see flowers in a UV-extended rainbow that appear to us as a solid color. According to researchers at the University of Bern in Switzerland, Mother birds ability to detect ultraviolet light reflecting off the feathers of their young means that they can favor the strongest chicks in times of environmental hardship and constantly monitor their chicks' healthy glow. Growing feathers that reflect UV light is metabolically expensive. Birds that are healthy can grow these feathers easily, but malnourished or ill individuals cannot. In species that can see in the ultraviolet part of the spectrum, this is used to select food and help choose potential mates from the crowd. As you can see, UV-A is a normal and important aspect to our Parrots view of its environment, physical health, mental health and survival in the natural world and our in-door world. UV-B (280 - 315 nm) This is unseen and un-reflected by Avian Feathers. It is absorbed through the Feathers though. This starts the chemical reaction which starts the production of Vitamin D3 which is so critical to the Calcium absorption needed to grow and maintain healthy bones and supply the rest of the body with calcium as needed. However, human health effects from exposure to UV-B include skin cancer, cataracts, and immuno-suppression. In addition, other dermatological effects include severe photo-allergies and accelerated aging of the skin. Although cataracts and cataract-related blindness are related to cumulative exposure to UV-B. It is necessary then to ensure that the level of UV-B provided for our Birds health, does not damage us. With this overview completed, I will finish here and begin Part two which will the address the light selection and factors to consider when doing so. Edited August 4, 2010 by danmcq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 WOW! This is excellent information Dan! This took a lot of time on your part, and I thank you for all our members here. This is so helpful. I am looking forward to reading part two! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterDavE Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I bought my ooovbuh [uvb] lamp today i am a good boy its flaming bright tho, we have it set up in the front room we bought the brand exoterra because i like the products and used to use them for my snakes and lizards and are reliable she seems to like it doesn't really act any different about it lets hope i don't end up with a funny suntan hey i shall keep you all informed about the progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Word of caution MisterDave - Reptile lamps should never be used in Avian applications. It is not a correct spectrum of Light, nor is it a correct UV-A/UV-B ratio. It could actually harm your Grey. Which Lamp model did you purchasefrom them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyGreys Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Thank you Dan for that valuable information, i look forward to part 2 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterDavE Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 it's a full spectrum it's a sun lamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblhelix Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Very interesting, Thanks Dan! I get Kip outside for some sun at least weekly and often daily. No substitute for the real thing, but proper indoor lighting is an asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Yes thanks Dan for the incredible information, a little above my head but then I am just a simple country girl but I look forward to part two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 (edited) Avian Lighting Part Two: First a warning: Reptile Lamps should never be used for Avian purposes. They are a completely different light spectrum with UV output levels that will harm your Avian friend!! In researching all the Avian Lighting specific companies advertising to us. I found many interesting facts. I also found that the existing fluorescent in-ceiling setup I was using for both Human and Avian light with Fluorescent Tubes labeled as Full-Spectrum, were so only in the visible range to us Humans, but lacking on the full range our Avian friends need on the UV-A side. Some of the interesting facts I found on Avian Specific Lamps: 1 Most have been or actually are using off the shelf Lamps (both bulb and tube type fluorescent) made by all the main lamp manufactures and re-packaged under their name with perhaps a minor modification or two. [li]OTT Sells the BE8 lamp, it is actually the Philips TL950 in disguise. It is manufactured for OTT by Philips. OTT adds a lead foil strip to the cathode ends of the lamps to eliminate the possibility of any stray radiation being emitted, which is unnecessary unless its physically right next to your Avian friend.[/li] [li]Vita-Light Now out of business, but being distributed from an apparent buy-out company, Vita-Light is still available, but with a CRI of 91 and 95, is not sufficient and the UV-A and UVB output is marginal.[/li] Table with specifics on Lamps, which is a duplicate with some updating by myself, of one available online 2 All the above lamps provide better lighting than you will receive from a standard, hardware store bought Lamp labeled as "Day light" or "Full Spectrum". Many of them have very low UV-A output and a maximum distance of 12 inches for UV-B from your Avian friend to accomplish any benefits in regards UV-B vitamin D3 inducing effects through feather absorption. . If you truly did accomplish this feat, it would be the most miserable experience for your Avian friend while being confined in a small space (like some Humans do inside tanning beds closed upon them) with this glaring in their eyes and possibly damaging them. 3 A few do output a sufficient amount of UV-A that your Avian friend would enjoy seeing. Most the above, do not output any UV-A at the entire UV-A spectrum to be perceived by your Avian friend. With the intent in mind, to provide the widest possible visible light spectrum for our Avian friends and the most beneficial aspects of all these lamps. I want to down play the UV-B role here and amplify the UV-A side of the spectrum. My reasoning on this is three fold. 1) Full-Spectrum lighting that includes UV-A at sufficient levels gives our Avian friends the full spectrum of light they need. UV-B is not visible and therefore not necessary, in the sense of Avian sight enhancement. 2) Most all of us provide Pellet diets, along with Seeds, Nuts, Fruits and Veggies that give our Parrots vitamin D3 levels sufficient to ensure correct Calcium absorption. To actually obtain UV-B levels required to produce D3 through a birds Feathers would require a secondary, special UV-B Lamp carefully turned on only for a specific amount of time to ensure your Avian friend is not harmed, yet receives the proper dose of this spectrum to initiate and maintain the D3 production process. 3) Our Avian friend can also get UV-B from outdoor sources of Sunlight either directly our indirectly in our homes through windows. Though reduced UV levels come in, they are still higher than the output you will get from a lamp. The only exception to this would be if you have multiple pane windows with Low-e glass which effectively reduces all UV to zero. I found two Fluorescents that initially impressed me as being the best choice as an Avian Lamp: Philips Lighting - TL950 The 950 series is a very high 98 CRI lamp which is available in 24 and 48 inch sizes. Its low color temperature of 5000 K combined with a high CRI translate to a longer acceptable life. Lumichrome 1XC and 1XX by Lumiram These are both excellent lamps with a CRI of 96 and 98 respectively. I chose the 1XX due to the higher CRI and also the 6500° K with an Average Rated Life: 24,000 hours and it is available in a T8 size. These lamps also produce more UV-A and UV-B than the Phillips/Ott TL950. These Lumichrome Lamps can be viewed and purchased in different sizes according to your fixture at: http://www.healthlighting.com/shopping/pgm-more_information.php?id=17&thiscat=5&frompage=Online_Store&page_num=1&=SID These Lamps are used for the treatment of SAD disorder and have proven effective in this sense and also for Avian use. The 6500K temp I went with produces a very pure white light. If you decide to go with a slightly less white output, then go with he 1XC or 1XZ with a reduce CRI. Why do I keep harping on CRI and Temp values? I believe the graph below will help you understand. The goal is to match noon sun characteristics as close as possible for our Avian friends. This displays the quality of light output by various sources in relation to the sun. As you can see, only Lamps specifically produced to match the Sun come close. These are not found in your local hardware store. Do not believe the "Daylight" or "Full Spectrum" labels. Lastly, if you are selecting new fixtures to place your Lamps in, go with energy efficient T-8 Tubes and ensure they have Electronic, not magnetic ballasts. You can use T12 size Lamps, but you will use more energy and probably have a magnetic ballast. Also, regardless of which Lamp size you have, always ensure you select the correct size Lamp. Some Lamps only come in T8 or T12 and sometimes the length also changes the "T" size designation. Magnetic ballasts are notorious for slow starts and constant perceptible flicker at 60 hertz and harmonics of it. If you can perceive the flicker, I guarantee you it is driving your Avian friend crazy. They can see much faster frequencies than we can. With enough flicker, the see as if you were in a room with a strobe light. We all know how that looks. Electronic Ballasts operate at a 25,000 hertz frequency and up, which is not perceptible to birds or Humans. This is going to be a three part series. Next will be the actual lamp assembly and making the installation bird safe with photos of assembly and the final outcome.<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2008/04/06 15:39 Edited August 4, 2010 by danmcq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I can't wait for part three, part two is making my head swim, this is too much information for my overloaded brain to handle, now didn't I walk into that one for you Dan, go ahead and take your best shot.:blink: :woohoo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 LOL Judy - You get a free pass on that one today. :-) But watch out for tomorrow!!! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatB Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 This is great stuff, Dan. Thank you for de-mystifying it for us. Just goes to show, you can't believe everything you read -- especially if it's written by the vendor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyGreys Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Dan, i must admit i have had to read it over to absorb all the info,look forward to part 3 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Lighting Part Three: Assembling a Bird Safe Fixture and Lamp selection Now that we have got the basics of Avian vision and Lamp characteristics covered. We will now look at the fixture placement, Bird protecting it and Lamp selection. Fixture selection The Fixture should be chosen based on the size of your Cage to ensure good light coverage. My Cage is 36 wide by 30 inches deep. I selected a 24 inch dual Tube T8 electronic ballast fixture for this application. If you have a larger Cage or multiple Cages side by side, go with the appropriate length fixture to ensure light coverage of the entire Cage(s) area. Lamp selection is the next task: You need to determine which Lamp is right for your needs. Hopefully enough information was provided in Lighting part two for you to make this decision. I chose the Lumichrome 1XX tubes based on their overall characteristics. The “temp†of 6500 may be a little high for you. I prefer the brilliant white light it provides, versus a little more yellowish tint of a 5500 or 5700 value temp that the Lumichrome 1XC and 1XZ provide respectively. With that said, it’s assembly and mounting time. I chose to do everything myself to afford me the ability of customizing the length of the power cord and bird protecting it with a wall mounted conduit it was ran through. You can purchase a fixture already wired with an established cable length or have it installed by an electrician. I also searched for a solution online such as a stand type fixture that would be able to provide light from above the cage. But, with a Cage six feet tall, none were found. I do not subscribe to providing light from the side of the cage at all. It is not a natural light direction and would be shining directly in to your Avian friends eyes, which would be irritating, to say the least. Power Cord: I chose to purchase a standard white 3 conductor extension cord off the self. Ensure you get 3 conductor meaning it has a ground and thus the Plug end will have three poles, not just two. Grounding is for safety and also to ensure flicker free operation of your electronic ballast. I took the cord inside the house, held it up to the mounting location near the ceiling and then ran it across the ceiling and down the wall to the wall plug and added an extra foot of length to it to ensure it was sufficiently long. Once cut too short, it's back to get another cord. So measure carefully. I cut off the "Female end" of the extension Cord, which then just left the other end with the plug to connect to the wall/timer. Remove the insulation off the end you are going to connect to your Lamp Fixture exposing about 3 inches of the three conductors inside. The extension cord I purchased: I also purchase square tube wire conduit from Lowes which is made for wiring on the wall to ensure was protected and bird safe. They will chew on wires and electrocute themselves. The conduit is cheap and you can purchase the mounting brackets that hold it to the wall. You can purchase it in various lengths depending on your needs. You can also purchase 90 degree connectors to handle corners if needed. Square Conduit: Conduit with mounting brackets shown Now, feed the wire through the Conduit BEFORE you start doing the following or you'll end up taking it all back apart to do so AFTER you already connected the wires to the Fixture :whistle: Learn from my embarrassing experience :laugh: The fixture: Open the center cover of the fixture to access the internals. You will need to punch out the 1/2 inch knock-out on the fixture and then screw in a power cord gripping connector in to it. The Fixture power cord connector: Now connect the wire colors matching each other using wire nuts. Ensure you connect the green wire to the ground terminal which is normally a green color. cut your power cord to length needed and stripped off the outer insulation exposing the three wires. Fixture wiring: Now with the wiring complete, place the center cover back over the wires and your done. Do not place the plastic/acrylic Lamp diffuser, it will block all UV!! Fixture Cover in place: Hardware used to mount the fixture above the cage. I used brass chain, screw in ceiling hooks and screwed small hooks into the fixture itself. Then cut the chain to ensure there was not enough space between the ceiling and fixture for even my small Conure to land on. Hardware used: Now Mount the conduit to your wall using correctly sized wall inserts (Plastic) to ensure the crews don't spin in the Sheetrock. Note how the conduit is mounted. There are no exposed wires our Grey can get at from the Cage which will be rolled back against the wall. This is all about bird safety!! Conduit mounted on wall: Plug it in: I purchased a timer. If you elect to do so, ensure it is a 3 prong plug-in to the wall receptacle and also a 3 prong for the lamp power cord to plug into. This is to ensure it is properly grounded and functions flicker free. Timer: Three prong receptacle: Plugged in and ready to go: Tada, we have light: Please note that the Fixture is mounted safely above and out of reach to our Avian friend from the Cage. It is mounted 2 feet above it and only two inches down from the ceiling. This ensures the birds cannot access the fixture in anyway. Always think safety, safety, safety. I hope this long series of articles have been helpful in determining which lighting path you wish to take for your Avian friend. It may not be a necessity in the summer months with outings or sun shining in brightly. But,. in the dark winter months it will provide the correct light your Avian friend needs to stay healthy and happy. 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lovemyGreys Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Dan thank you for all your research & effort you have put in to this very informative article on lighting.It is very much appreciated & I'm sure it will be a very valuable reference thread for existing & new members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Thanks Dan for all your research and the amount of time and effort to put this all together for us, I really appreciate it and I know a lot of the members do too and some of them may take it into actual production but not me, its too over the head for me (no pun intended). Now can we find similar lighting in a ready to use fixture that we can just plug in and ready to use?:whistle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatB Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 It turned out great, Dan. I especially like the conduit, it give the whole thing a finished look in addition to the primary safety factor. Thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterDavE Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Hey Dan you were saying about the reptile lamp we have its CRI is 98, the spectral peaks are between 500 and 640 like diagram 2 shows i think, the colour temp is 6700°k that is 200 higher than one of your "prescribed" bulbs and the hours life is 8000h i believe which is lower than your strips but it is a cat A energy effiecient bulb. We were mainly interested in UVB for VitD while she is being introduced to pellet and for feathers, she probably isnt going to be mated so don't think we need the UVA as it is so mother birds can recognise thier offspring i am lead to believe ?? Do you think this bulb suitable my lighting guru? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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