The Not Quite A Bite or Accidental Tiny Bite Story

[LNCAG]

Snickers doesn't like bedtime or ANY cage time.  He won't bite me when I put him in his cage at night, although sometimes he will exert a little more beak force on my hand/fingers (more pressure -- not a true pinch bite or drawing blood or anything) just a "I'm really not happy I am going to bed in my cage" alert.  (If you've had a real bite or a pinch bite -- you know the difference!!!).  I suppose I could use a handy wooden perch to hold him but I prefer to only use hands with him.  He had a bad past with multiple homes and can view 'objects' as scary.  So, hands I use.  It was 10:30 pm, sorry, but past bedtime for Snickers.

His nighttime routine, after caging, is to go immediately to the bottom of his cage and take his rage out on a flattened paper towel roll.  He basically stands on the flattened roll and pulls bits of cardboard off each roll quite aggressively.  Tonight I noticed he was down to his last roll, already a bit chewed, so I decided to give him another one.  (Yeah yeah, he has other toys hanging in his cage, but the flattened paper towel roll is just his choice for his evening "I don't want to go to bed yet so let me destroy something" routine. 

I flatten a new paper towel roll and am slipping it between the bars so it will fall to the bottom.  Well, he grabs it from me so it can't drop.  The problem is, I didn't fold up the roll, only flattened it -- so he can't get a good grip on it and he keeps letting it go a second for a retry - basically just trying to re-arrange a too-large object in his beak.  Why I didn't just open the door and toss it in is beyond me.  Temporary insanity?

So, between the bars, I foolishly stuck my finger in, with the intention of pushing the flattened PT roll out of his beak when he let go to re-position his grip on it.  I lost.

I don't know if he accidentally bit me or if I scraped my finger myself on his beak.  I know I am missing a small (but thick) piece of epidermis just above my fingernail and it bled a lot (not on the PT roll itself, just bled on ME).  My effort did have the desired effect, the flattened roll fell to the bottom and Snickers is happily standing on his new roll and destroying it as we speak.  I am on my second plaster/band-aid and bleeding has finally stopped.  I do have missing flesh though, small 2mm strip of top skin gone and red meat showing (sorry, that was a gross but accurate description).  I think this will take at least a few days to heal over.  It hurts. (whining).  I don't think he meant to bite me (if that's what happened) or if he did bite me he probably doesn't realize it -- or perhaps he deliberately bit me on purpose as part of the 'dropping a flattened paper towel roll game'.  I do imagine he thought I was playing a paper towel tube game:  Goal: him to hold it, me to fail dropping it to bottom of cage.  Who knows really? -- they're so smart!  I've just never been bitten by him before like this! (Another story one day of the only bite I ever received from him and it was a complete accident on his part -- he thought my hands belonged to someone else).

Snickers isn't a biter -- well, correction, he never bites me.  Maybe he thought I was playing a game with him, maybe he was just angry it was cage-time/bed-time.  I just can't imagine he thought this one through.  I often push flattened paper towel rolls through the bars for him at night for him to chew on.  I also often just open his door and toss a flattened roll in. (Wish I'd done this tonight!)

My feelings aren't hurt.  Snickers is a good bird -- cuddly, sweet -- he just hates bedtime or cage-time.  If I was a CAG, I'd hate bedtime too!  But man, now the next few days will mean a sore index finger for me.  I think, with the missing skin chunk, it has to heal from the inside out.   Could take a week or more.  

[Ray P]

OH they know how to get their point across and some times they do over do it.

It`s the only way they know for sure how to get your attention. Are they sorry ? No, but they did get their point across..

You gotta love them.

[LNCAG]

I was redressing my wound when it hit me, only the top part of my finger injured -- no bottom beak action.  I am thinking either I accidentally scraped my own finger on his upper beak or he was trying for a better beak hold on the flattened tube and caught my finger with his upper beak in error.  It looks mostly like a deep scrape.  

[neoow]

Difficult to tell either way but possibly just an accident - he was probably just going for the cardboard tube and your finger happened to get in the way.

I have had a breakthrough with Alfie and bedtimes in the last couple of years. Well, I say I've had a breakthrough... he's basically just done it all himself and I'm celebrating. Bedtimes or back to cage times were always tricky with Alfie giving me the run around. However, I think this was mostly because he wasn't getting enough out of cage time previously. Now we've spent quite a few years having regular out of cage time and establishing a better routine I think he now realises that he will definitely come out again tomorrow so is more willing to accept going back in his cage. I have to use a wooden perch to get him to step up as he's usually on top of his shelves and I can't reach so well (there is a sofa in the way too). So I ask him to step up on the perch, which he does nicely. I then take him to his cage and ask him to step up on the perch on the cage door and he does so willingly. I then close the door and give him a treat. Occasionally he will grab the perch and give it a bite first, but he still reliably steps up on to it. Very occasionally he will give me the run around by climbing to the top of the cage (which I can't reach) but I use the long wooden perch to guide him back down. It's just a bit of a game to him sometimes I think.

We've even got to the point that Alfie will sometimes put himself back in his own cage. If it's getting late in the evening and I'm doing other things he sometimes flies to his cage and climbs right in to have his bedtime snack and drink. He also sometimes tops his off by saying "night night" -  a hint for me to let him sleep! I never thought I would see that happen. 😂

[LNCAG]

>>Difficult to tell either way but possibly just an accident - he was probably just going for the cardboard tube and your finger happened to get in the way.<<

True!  This is what I now suspect.

I used to get lots of tiny impish bites from my macaw who was playful but did little harm with her nips. (I would often play 'beak wrestle' with her using a crook'd index finger -- she was a sweetie and very gentle).  I've even had her hang off my finger by just her beak when I was walking to carry her somewhere (she chose to hang this way -- not me! -- lest it sound horrible when it was really cute).  Such a big baby she was.  

And I got lots of bites from my Amazon -- sometimes I think she did it for fun, sometimes she would just be in a weird (sort of mean) nippy mood.  Some bites hurt more than others.  Even my cockatiel sometimes would nip me, it hurt but never caused much harm.  Now they are all free at the sanctuary, I guess I have just forgotten what a real parrot bite is like!  Crazy but true.  I am just not used to ever being bit by Snickers!  He's just not a biter (for me -- anyone else is fair game though).  Even when Snickers tightens his beak grip on my fingers/hands when I am taking him somewhere he doesn't want to go (like to his cage or into his carrier for the vet) -- it's just pressure -- never even a pinch-bite.  

I over-reacted by posting.  I was just so caught off guard by it.  Today, we're both either pretending nothing happened last night or Snickers may seriously be unaware anything happened.  lol

[neoow]

It can be a shock- especially when blood is drawn!

Alfie does bite when he is feeling cranky or doesn't agree with something. He tends to just leave a mark or a slight bruise. Only time he has ever drawn blood is when he got my mum on the ear and again on the nose when he was a baby. However, I don't doubt that he could draw blood quite easily if he wanted to. He tends to grab and let go rather than clinging on for too long (thankfully!) It's usually quick and sharp. You know damn well you've been bitten and it's sore for a short while but there's no blood.

Macaws seem to be gentle giants. The size of their beak is intimidating but from what I've read from macaw owners they seem to know exactly how much pressure is required. I've never really got up close and personal with a macaw, though I did hold one back in June. It was at the annual think parrot show and was a very tame green wing. She stepped up on my arm and sat there quietly for a few moments before being returned to the owner. I also saw some other macaws in aviaries at the event but I was a bit too nervous to stick my fingers in to give them scritches, despite the fact other people were.

Greys? I don't think any bird bites quite like a grey does. Alfie is so fast and so accurate. He also gives off 'warning shots' at times where he deliberately gets the cage bars as opposed to the person (or cat). This seems to be his way of saying "back off or lose a limb!" and it works pretty damn well. The cats know better than to mess with him. (they never mix when Alfie is out of the cage and they know better than to stick a paw or tail in or near his cage!)

I don't think you over-reacted by posting. I think sometimes they'll do something that catches us off guard and makes us wonder what the heck happened to warrant the response. Their behaviours are so subtle at times they can be difficult to read!

[LNCAG]

Glad your grey understands the difference in a little nip and a serious bite -- and that he lets go quickly!  My injury sure caught me off-guard! So unexpected!

Macaws (well, I got mine as a babe) but mine was a gentle giant.  I cried out at bites once I felt she was old enough to understand.  In the wild, a biter is going to be shunned and I wanted her, by age 2 or 3, to know it hurt.  Crying out and ignoring her a few moments fixed it all -- she learned.  She was capable of a serious bite and yet always controlled her pressure when nipping (usually playfully nipping, at that).  Seriously -- a cockatiel bite hurt more than my macaw's. 

Snickers (my CAG) has bitten a few family members (my husband took the brunt of his hate) and Snickers not only bit with 100% of his strength, but he DID NOT LET GO!  I felt horrible how much he truly hated my husband (who passed away 2010).  My husband bore a few scars from encounters with Snickers.  

I've read the bite of a bulldog is 450 pounds of pressure and a macaw has 900 pounds of pressure in a bite.  Wow (assuming this is accurate info).  A macaw really could remove a finger, or damage a wrist to the point the hand is useless (know a true story of this happening to someone).  So my macaw really was gentle -- never bit with her true strength.  Just a gentle giant.  Suspect also it's how they're raised.  She sure made a LOT of friends at the sanctuary -- with the other macaws and with people.  She is a fave there. 

[Timbersmom]

Timber bites with intent at times, and I have not been successful in reading his body language. It comes out of nowhere. Thank God it isn't often. He will bite others routinely if they put their hands where he doesn't think they belong (anywhere in his space). He was rehomed and I think he had some bad experiences with previous owners. I've had him about 7 years, and the bites have become less frequent with time thankfully. I tried to tell myself that he didn't really know how much damage he was doing, but he also knows how to give a pinch so that excuse bit the dust. Wish I could read his mind!

Sounds stupid, but it hurts my feelings when he bites me. I spend so much time working with him and taking care of his medication etc. (I'm whining now). What an unappreciative little critter he is. Then he puts is head on my stomach for scratches and makes his baby bird cheep and all is forgiven. Yes, I'm a sucker...

[neoow]

It is really difficult not to take it personally. Alfie went through a phase recently where he would fly to the back of my head and bite it a few times. Thankfully I have really thick hair (and a hard head to boot!) so he never really did any damage. But it did scare me and make me really wary, as it wouldn't have taken much for him to get my ears or face. I did write a thread about it. All seems to have settled down now but he totally went off me and wouldn't even have scritches from me. I did struggle not to feel hurt by it. I had to keep reminding myself not to apply human emotions to the situation and just ride it out until he came round. Things are much better now and he doesn't attack the back of my head any more. I'm also allowed to give him scritches again.

Alfie generally strikes out and lets go. He rarely hangs on (thankfully). The few times he has held on he isn't applying as much pressure as I know he could. So I'm pretty lucky!