Suggestions on clipping more feathers

[Ronda477]

SweetHeart as most of you know has 5 feathers clipped already. She can still fly! She can't go round and round the room but if I'm on one end of the living room she can fly to the other end with no problem and she can fly from her cage which is on one end of living room all the way into the kitchen counter.

 

After 3 weeks and every time I try to get her or walk around with her she flies off. The breeder said I could clip 2 more feathers just to follow her line where she had just clipped.

 

As nice as the breeder was I won't ever get another one off of her. I think she let them have too much free roam with the other birds and therefore kind of made her a wild bird! Of course the breeder could do anything with her because she hand fed her, but because she had free roam all the time with a million other babies I think she became wild in a sense.

 

What are your opinions on this? I would have to towel her. There is no way at this point to just take her and tell her to give me her wing. She won't even let me hold her. I'm hoping if she knows she can't just fly off she will have to start trusting us a little more and not just be able to literally the second we bring her to the counter, couch, chair, dimmly lit room fly off. Please let me know what you guys think. I know it can be a touch subject but all I want to do is to love her and granite I know she might never be the sweet babies everyone else seems to have or cuddly but I'm sure I can get it to where she wants to just sit with us. Thanks!

[judygram]

In my opinion I would clip those two feathers so she cannot fly as well, it will tend to make her more dependent on you for getting from one place to another and will help in the bonding process.

[Ronda477]

Thank you soo much Judy! These 3 weeks have been the hardest and longest of my life lol. All I want to do is try to bond to her and it's soo hard when she keeps flying.

[judygram]

Well 3 weeks is not a lot of time when you consider that your baby came to you after a frightful journey on an airplane that has put a kink in the bonding process. But it takes time and maybe in your case it will be a longer process before she begins to trust you and then the bond will start to take place. Just be patient and it will happen, I think you are doing just fine.

 

And thanks for the updates, you are doing an excellent job keeping us informed as to how things are going, I like that.

[nevjoe]

My bird are cut to the 8th feathers. They still can fly to the ground without harm.

 

Joe

[dblhelix]

My opinion would be that clipping feathers is not the answer. You have had the bird for 3 weeks or so, correct? That is NOTHING in the grand scheme of ownership. You need to focus on letting the bird adjust to its new home, to you etc. Changing more things (and clipping more is actually a pretty drastic change) may actually make things worse. You need to build a relationship on trust based on patience. You dont break a dogs leg to get it to stay where you want...OK, now you know my position on wing clipping in general. B) Certainly there are some that think clipping will force the bird to be dependent on you and therefore increase the bond, I think the bird may associate even more fear and the inability to control its body by clipping with you. You should not force anything, you build trust so that there is a mutually beneficial relationship. My suggestion, take it slow, dont expect change/bonding/relationship overnight and work on building the relationship with the fact in mind that birds are meant to fly, will be happier in that state and you CAN live with a flighted bird.<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/11/19 06:18

[Jane08]

We had the same problem with our bird. My boyfriend was the main carer and he hated him and would fly to the other room when he was there. If he went up to the bird it would turn it's back and fly off. The bird would not interact with him at all. We were advised to clip the wings so that he would be forced to bond. Anyway I am gald that we didn't.

 

My boyfriend gave him time and lots of treats. So everytime he approached the bird he had a treat to give him. After a month of constantly doing this and not forcing the bird to do anything it didn't want my boyfriend could pet and interact with the bird without it flying away. It has now been 2 months of my boyfriend working on bonding with the bird and now everytime he comes up to the bird it walks over to him and stretches its beak up for a kiss. It is the cuttest thing in the world to see.

 

Don't give up hope, lots of time and patience is needed.

[BMustee]

I agree with Mark and Jane on this one. Clipping more feathers is not the answer. If you were to clip more it could/will stress her more and will damage any bit of trust you have earned. Because your baby seems to be such a strong flyer, more feathers cut wouldn't fix the flying across the room. You said that she can go from one end of the room to the other, so she is able to glide. Your grey is properly clipped and more than likely if you take off two more she will still be able to go from one end of the room to the other...mine has about 6 or 7 clipped and he can go from one end of the room to the other with no problem. If you were to clip shorter it will take away the gliding abilities, but it would be a VERY BAD idea. I have seen birds with their wings cut really short and when they try to fly away they drop...strait down. I see it the most with birds that have the same issues as you are having...people think the less flight they have will make them stop trying to fly away but really it doesn't....it just puts the birds at risk for severe injuries. What your bird needs is patience and training, not clipping.

 

As for the breeder making her a "wild" bird, I would have to disagree. Now, I don't know her and probably never will meet her but I have raised my grey from 6 weeks...he only had the feathers on his head and the beginning of wind and tail feathers...and ever sense he was old enough to run around and play I gave him free range (within safety rules) and he is not a wild bird. He goes where he wants when he wants as long as I can see him but when I tell him no, or call him he listens to me and ether stops what he is doing, or comes running. He also knows that if I put him on a stand, chair back, shower rod, ect...he know to stay put and not go running around. This is not due to me cutting his wings and forced interactions with me...it's good training, and I'm guessing that your breeder started this with your baby but all that went out the window when she was shipped to you. The trip on the plane could have been VERY traumatic...no one knows what really happened to her when in shipping...so if she needs time to trust people again then she needs to be given it. It could take one more week or 5 months, it's all up to the bird, just let her know she is in a safe place and she will come around on her time, not yours.<br><br>Post edited by: BMustee, at: 2007/11/20 14:36

[nevjoe]

OK! I understand what members are saying about clipping wings. We are back to clip or no clip and it seems that all of us have different views. I Know it's a problem for some, if not more members, to not clip, but it comes down to, is what’s best for YOU. I want my birds to go out with me wherever I go and to see more then my home.

 

I let my birds run the house as much as they want.

I let my birds walk around in my yard to play in the grass and forage for themselves.

I let my birds go to the bank, flea market, drive through, see my family, plus many other places.

I let my birds climb trees that are 6 foot high and play in them.

I let my birds play all together in the house on the floor or gym and in one cage. I have CAG, Double yellow head, two Tiels, and they eat together on the floor when I put the food loose on the floor.

I hold my birds and twirl them around, hold them and cuddle them in a towel after a bath, I have all of them on me when I’m on the couch watching TV.

 

If this wrong for you, then enjoy your birds the way you see fit to do.

 

This link will take you to the photos of me and my guys at the park yesterday

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/the-photography-room/45677-my-birdies-at-the-kiddie-park.html#45704

 

THIS IS WHAT I WANT FOR MY BIRDS

[danmcq]

Joe is right on - It is a situational and preferential decision by each owners environment, activities and the temperament of the Parrot at that given time.

 

IMHO - There is a time to clip and a time to let fly.

 

I am going to start a Poll just to see how many owners birds are clipped or non-clipped.

 

I am letting both Dayo and my Conure Jake become fully flighted. However, I may clip them both as/if the activities, environment or behaviour changes.

 

I would not cut my Dogs legs off, but I certainly use restraints as the environment or situation changes i.e. no leash, short leash, long leash, no muzzle, muzzle, choke collar with cleats etc. based on the circumstances.

 

I am hoping to leave both of them flighted, but as others have done and I did in the past, I at some time may need to clip them and it is my right as the loving responsible owner to do so for the safety of my bird. No one can question a person not knowing their specifics situation.

 

So in summation, it should never turn into a battle, but a good reasoning approach for and against clipping or not is a good topic for someone needing to know which path is right for them.

 

That Topic already exists and therefore we probably do not need to hash it out again here :-)

 

With that said, let the Poll begin!! :-)

[loviechick]

I think what it ultimately comes down to is what you feel is right for the bird. I clip and I know some people are against it, however my house is very decorated and I have vases, sculptures and all sorts of other obstacles around the house. That's not to say my CAG's couldn't avoid them if they took flight, but I live in a small apartment, add in all the obstacles, and I just see more harm than good coming from them being flighted at my house. I've tried using a harness on both of them and they both scream and freak out while it's on, so for now clipping will work. Go with what's best for you and not what others think is morally right, or what is done for so called convenience:P<br><br>Post edited by: loviechick, at: 2007/11/19 18:35

[dblhelix]

I agree this is a personal choice that each owner must make based on an evaluation of their living circumstances etc. My comments are my opinion, which is what the original poster requested. Everyone must ultimately determine what is best for them and their bird. Considering other people's opinions is part of that formula. There is no black and white right and wrong here, but there are different approaches to consider.

 

Joe - you can have a flighted bird that gets to enjoy all of the things you indicate: outside time, climbing trees, playing on grass, car rides etc. To do so one needs to invest the time and training with a harness. Some have even gone so far as free flight recall training. Now, realistically most owners will probably not accomplish this level of training with their bird, but my point is there are different approaches and trade offs.

 

Best,

Mark<br><br>Post edited by: dblhelix, at: 2007/11/20 05:09

[Ronda477]

I think some things were a little harsh. I wouldn't break my dogs legs to train them, I no longer see that comment down there it was probably deleted but as a mother and a volunteer EMT I tend to look at safety first. I HAVE to have a clipped bird. We have dogs, cats, children, and doors opening all the time. I work 50+ hours a week and volunteer for an EMT in our county and have 2 children along with a husband and a small farm to take care of. I don't have the time to train my bird the way some of you can. I have love to give and that's all I'm trying to do. My question wasn't on to clip or not to it was should I clip more or will it hurt the progress we have already made because I would have to towel her. After reading and debating on this I will wait a little longer to clip more only because I don't want the set back right now.

 

She did have a very very very terrible flight. A flight that was suppose to take 5 hours took almost 14. Long story but I have been trying my best to be paitent and do everything I'm suppose to. I just was wanting to know if this would help our bonding if she couldn't fly off as much. But I have basically answered my own question. I do thank you for the ones that didn't seem to push their views. Everyone has thier own opinion and is entitled to it and that was what I was looking for. Just not the harshness of breaking legs or for my bird being less of a bird because she's clipped. That's what it sounded like to me. I didn't mean to post a bad question just trying to learn without judgement.

[danmcq]

Hi Ronda,

 

You certainly did not ask a bad question!!

 

That's what this forum and its members are here for. To help others lesser experienced to make the best decision for their circumstances.

 

I hope things are progressing well with your new baby, slow though it may be. :-)

 

Take care and ask away anytime you have another question or just want to tell us of Sweethearts progress and cool things she's doing B)

[Ronda477]

Hey Dan!

I will def be asking more questions, no one scared me off believe me lol. I will keep you all or as they say here in WV ya'll updated.{Feel-good-0002006E}

 

Thanks!!

[danmcq]

Cool...Ya'll come back now hear :-)

 

I love your Thankgiving signature...beautiful!!

[Ronda477]

Muchabliged Dan on the signature!

 

And here is some more for you to laugh at:

 

My arm was upagain the wall

 

Sumptn teet? (Do you all want something to eat?)

 

Finer n frog hair (really fine) I was actually told this the other day, didn't know if I should take it as a compliment or not lol.

 

Yer perrtier than a new set of snow tiares.

 

Ok you get the idea just having some fun lol Talk at ya later!

[nevjoe]

Dblhelix. If keeping your bird/birds with full feathered that’s fine with me and anyone else that wants full feathers. You talk about trade offs; well I do what’s BEST for my birds, as I've done with my family of 45 people from me that was created 40 yrs ago. I spend the time with them and ONLY want to see them happy and safe. I had one and only one bird in my life that was not clipped and he is gone from last week. I have spent sleepless nights thinking and hoping he is well. Hour, after hours looking and searching for him. Not for me, but for him. I Love that little brat and will miss him, a lot, but again, as lone as he is safe somewhere I'm good. Both my big guys have and used their suits with the harness but I rather have them free for a little while in their lives.

Can you tell me what’s so wrong with that?

Have I told you what to do with your bird/birds? When it come to this subject do what you feel best for your own< as you mention as do I, BUT you chose to express yourself to me in your post, when I only expressed my views of MY BIRDS no one else.

 

I Hope you think you made your point with me?

Joe<br><br>Post edited by: nevjoe, at: 2007/11/21 04:12

[dblhelix]

Ronda, glad I did not scare you off! I hope through some of this dialogue you got some valuable information to help you decide how to proceed with your intial inquiry. Please continue to post away and ask questions and we will be happy to try and help. This one has now gotten a bit off course and I agree that we already have had the clip or not debate.

 

I have ALWAYS supported that clipping is a personal choice. My intent has not been to offend, judge or tell anyone what to do. I apologize if it was received differently. My statements are my opinion and it would be foolish for anyone to take them otherwise. I did feel compelled to voice my thoughts on the general question related to clipping to provoke thought on the issue. Sometimes throwing a hot potato out there accomplishes that.

 

I intentionally used a comparison that is extreme if taken literally. For the record, I do NOT think clipping is literally the same as breaking a dog’s leg. I know many good friends that choose to clip for a variety of reasons. I do think it is important for people to carefully consider the pros and cons of clipping as a means to deal with a specific goal. I stand by the position that physically altering the animal is almost never necessary as other options exist. I do realize not everyone can execute certain options due to their living circumstances or choose to.

 

Joe - I do not think I made my point with you, other than getting you riled up. Never once did I say "this is right and that is wrong". I made no judgement on your choices and my only intent was to state there are options to consider. That does not infer your choices are wrong and if you took it that way its on you. I do extend my apologies if my message was perceived as a personal attack or judgment, this was not the intent.

 

Now, back to having fun here people...B) I sincerely hope no one takes this whole thing too personally. If anyone feels the need to take up the matter further I suggest using the personal message system, though I am happy to discuss more in the open forum if desired.

[Ronda477]

I think everyone here has spoke thier mind in some way or another lol. So lets just put it in the past and all get along {Communicate-000200D5} Opinions are like well you know the saying everyone has one lol. I think everyone on this board is here to help no matter what your views are. Lets just keep that in mind. We are here to help. Even us newbies that don't have a clue lol.

 

Oh and for the record I was raised with a mother who is 100% Sicilian. I would be a hard one to run off lol <br><br>Post edited by: Ronda477, at: 2007/11/21 05:04

[nevjoe]

You might think your good with words, but you USED the name Joe. That’s personnel, and it's not on me, and your Apologies are one of being two faced.

I GAVE MY VIEWS OF MY BIRDS AND ME, I INVOLVED NO ONE. YOU USED MY NAME, AND I DON’T WANT OPTIONS FROM YOU, WHO I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. You know nothing about me, but remember this, My name is who I am, and when you use it, I do get (how did you say it) “riled up”, I say pissed off.

You KEEP saying you believe in freedom of choice, but you ramble your beliefs on others. Just state your option and not criticize mine. Remember, you used my name, and that don’t play with me. On Me! You’re a creep.

It’s people like you that have too much to say about everything.

Joe

[dblhelix]

Here's what I say to you Joe. You are acting like a child.

 

{Emotions-00020075}

[nevjoe]

You're a real looser

[dblhelix]

Joe you can have the last word on this one if you choose. I am confident that anyone reading this will see who the loser is. The more you post, the more insults you hurl, the sillier you look.

[danmcq]

:whistle: ..................So Ronda......

 

I found your additional "Native Speak" hilarious..I love it!!

 

It's great to hear you've made a decision on how your are going to handle your sweetheart for the time being.

 

How about some more photos of that cutie pie ? :woohoo: