Stepping Up Chaos

[romaneagle]

Hi, I've adopted a 9-month old African Gray. She's awesome. But we're having severe problems with stepping up. I announce "Step Up" while showing the step-up hand, then put move hand forward into cage, continuing the command.

 

But even from the very first "step up" command, she goes into anxiety mode. She immediately finds the hardest corner for me to get to (the safest corner) and does the panic dance over there (lifting legs up and down over and over, not going anywhere). Now, it's impossible for me to place my hand at the ideal breast level to step up onto since the cage bars are there. Not wanting her to get the idea that this is an effective way to avoid stepping up, I persist. Needless to say, she bit me three times this week (just hard enough to do a little damage, will heal soon).

 

As I persist, she eventually throws a tantrum and flails herself out of the cage. That's where I have her step-up successfully each and every time!

 

If we could just have that same success, willingly, from the perch! All of the training directions I've read assume that the bird's going to be sitting nice and pretty on the perch. Mine goes into a panic.

 

Okay, so when she's on my finger/hand (the Egyptian hand), she tends to not want to stay there long. She flutters away and she has to step-up again.

 

Really, the whole process is chaotic and frustrating (to both of us). :ohmy:

 

After she's had fun time in the living room play pen, I have her step-up, and then I sit down on the floor (so she's not scared), and we hang out for fifteen minutes. During this time, I talk to her and she actually stays on my finger/hand--the whole time. My intent is to get her more and more comfortable with staying on the finger/hand so she won't feel the need to move on to the next best perch.

 

If anyone has advice on how to get my anxiety-ridden, cage-corner-hogging Gray to step-up on to my finger and enjoy staying there, please let me know. I imagine that once these steps are accomplished, I can train her to move on over nicely to the perch for a civil, drama-free step-up.

 

THANKS!

[siobha9]

You didnt say how long you have had her, she is probably still scared of leaving her cage as it is a new place.

 

You could try having her step up onto a stick. Once she is comfortable doing that, you could move your hand further and further down the stick so that eventually she accidentally steps onto it instead of teh stick.

 

If you get her onto the stick, give her lots and lots of praise, and a treat perhaps, so that she associates the step up with something nice rather than something scary.

 

The main thing is lots and lots of patience i am afraid

[romaneagle]

Hi siobha9,

 

Thanks for the tips.

 

I've had Harriet for about 4 weeks now. She doesn't seem to have any "issues" about the cage. She might, however, feel nervous about what's beyond the cage and beyond what she can see.

 

Maybe I need to do a better job of showing her around those areas... finding a comfortable way for her to get to know those areas.

 

I agree. Somehow, stepping up is scary for her. I will be sure to give her tons more praises.

 

Not sure if the stick will work. The poor girl gets scared to death of new toys (even little tiny jingle ball toys). Takes her a while to warm up to them.

 

She's so sensitive. Hehehe.

 

Thanks again!

[loviechick]

Yeah it's definitely safe to say that you haven't had her that long and she is still getting used to her surroundings. My best advice would be to back away and let her get used to things. You persisting with trying to get her to step up only stresses her out, and gives her all the less reasons to trust you. I would suggest taking a hands off approach for now. I'm sure it's been said a hundred times but the best thing to do is leave her in her cage and just sit by it and talk to her, read the newspaper outloud, read a book outloud, talk to her. Just sit there and let her see you're not going to bite her, or harm her. If she comes near you to "investigate" offer her a treat and leave it at that, don't try to bet her through the bars, just give her a treat, praise her, and go about reading or whatever you're doing. Continue to do this daily for a good week or two. Eventually she will get used to you, your smells, the sounds you make, the way yo ucommunicate with her and will calm down when you try to touch her or get her to step up.

 

Another tip is when trying to pick her up, dim the lights a bit. Leave it to where the two of you can see eachother, but it's not as bright, it will be more soothing for your Grey and get them to trust you more.

 

One more thing, was she taught step up at her prior home? I know one of my Greys wasn't and it took me about 2 months for her to understand what I was asking and even then, she is still funny about being picked up!

 

Good luck!<br><br>Post edited by: loviechick, at: 2007/11/16 21:16

[trish]

hi romaneagle,i also have this problem i tried the stick but babygirl kept biting it and attacking it then running away from it and getting into places that i found hard to manage,on one hand i needed her to learn step up and didnt want to back down in case she learnt that everytime i gave the step up command she could attack and that i would back away but on the other hand i didnt want her to get freaked.

 

Baby girl used to step up for me ,i managed to teach her tostep up to a stick but after she had her accident she sees me as the person who sometimes gives her unpleasant experiences ie medicine,vets and surgery ,so i have to gain her trust again.Yday i persevered with stick untill she flew off cage,landed on sofa and stepped onto my hand as sweet as a nut:)

This morning when i oppened her cage she stepped up but hasnt done it since,i have started to spend more time with her where she cant see her cage

[romaneagle]

Hi Loviechick, thanks for your tips. Indeed, the previous parent had her stepping up. The only difference I can find is that the previous parent has giant hands and I have "normal" hands. But, I suppose she's also anxious about the safeness of the new home. She was not happy about the stepping up thing with me from the get-go. So, that's why I gave her a month to get used to me and her cage and the environment. She is comfortable and as happy as can be. I feed her treats, hang out by her cage a bunch, chat with her a ton,... I suppose another month wouldn't hurt. But, I do want her to be unquestioning with the step-up soon so that taking care of her won't be as traumatic (any vet visits/clippings). Thanks!

 

Hi Trish,

I agree. Harriet would totally 1) run away from the stick and 2) go into self-defense kung fu biting mode to get the stick away. I would prefer not to foster that kind of attitude towards my hand.

Sounds like your Baby Girl is going through the same kind of process!

 

Just FYI (and really to help me think it through). Here's what I think I'm going to do next:

1) Before I take her out, I'm going to place the cage on the floor -- this will (a) give her motivation to cooperate with the step-up command & (b) help protect herself from her dramatic actions.

2) I'll give the "step-up" command and hand sign... offer my hand and persist with the command. I will persist until she goes and pulls her dramatic move of flailing out of the cage. However, I would much prefer it if she opted to step up like a good girl. Either way, she's coming out.

3) I will try gently applying my thumb to the top of her claw (even though I really prefer the Egyptian hand method of protecting the precious opposable thumb) to keep her there. Although, I already know she won't like this. Perhaps, I will reconsider this one for another time when other things are mastered first.

4) Instead of delivering her directly to her living room play tree (oh, that thing I spent way too much money on), I'm going to see if she'll stay on my finger if I stay near to the floor. Each time she flails off, I'll have her step up again and reward her for stepping up, which will further reinforce the step up command. Coincidentally, I've noticed she's quicker to abort the finger the higher I am from the ground. So, close the floor will be key for this.

5) Then, I'll put her up on her living room play tree... where I lavish her with fresh fruit and veggie treats. She likes to chill out up there for an hour.

6) After that, I'll have her step-up and hang out with me (on the finger) for 15 minutes close to the ground. This is where I talk softly to her... she loves it.

7) I'll take her back to her cage.

*) If she shows no progress or hope, I'll consider letting her be for more "adjustment" time.

I'll let ya know what happens with that!

[trish]

good luck,i will be keeping track to see how you get on it might be a good idea to try in a room where her tree and cage arent situated as she feels safe there and will want to get back to that place.i also noticed tnat i was giving babygirl mixed messages through what i was saying,i was giving the command to step up but when she went to bite i was saying no,not harshly.Im changing my approach by asking "do you want to step up" if she doesnt then say "dont you want to" and leave her alone

[Laurie]

Well, Chris it sounds like you care about your bird a lot! That's awesome...

I really like LovieChick's advice.

My experience with Klaus (I've had him since July 4th) has taught me that patience is a must. These birds cannot be rushed into anything.

I had to chuckle to myself when I read the title to the post (Stepping Up Chaos). Here's what Klaus thinks of everyone in the house: I'm "top dog" - he adores me and I can pretty much touch him and pick him up whenever I want. My husband and son are not tolerated well, and will very likley be bitten if they try to screw with him. My brother in law, Eric, (who is staying with us temporarily) is somewhat tolerated. He will go to Eric, but only with a fair amount of chaos. Lots of fussing but not a lot of bites like he does with my husband and son. Best of luck to you and Harriet (love the name by the way)...

[romaneagle]

The follow-up... (they say later is better than never)

I placed Harriet's small cage on the floor (made sure she'd be safe) in front of the TV for about 45 minutes. Day 1: She wasn't freaking out. She just looked at me. Days 2-4: I opened the cage doors and encouraged her to come out on her own, with treats and much ado. Once she came out, I softly told her to "Come Here" with my index finger extended. She jumped on board and I just sat there and gave her tons of praise so she would like staying on my finger. After a while, I put her back on top of her cage and gave her a banana treat. She went back into her cage and we called it a day. Day 5: I placed the cage back on the floor in front of the TV and gently put my finger in there with the "Come Here" command. She hopped on board and I took her out and gave her tons of praise.

 

Now, she'll comply with my "Come Here" or "Step Up" commands about 80% of the time (from anywhere). But sometimes, she just doesn't feel like it. We'll work on the 100%.

 

However, now, she has started a thing where she'll obey, but she'll grab the sides of the doorway with her beak so she can dismount the finger perch (even though I put my thumb on her claw). I'm not sure how to remedy that, but she's already improved so greatly... that I'm happy for that. But this might be a little passive-aggressive streak. I'm sure there's a trick to fix it. Anyone? :-)

 

Another weird thing is that when I get her passed the door, she tries to fly/leap/flutter on to my shoulder (her favorite place). Of course, she fails, so she goes flopping to the ground. It's very dramatic. I rescue her and she leaps for the shoulder again... even when my finger perch is pretty far from my shoulder. She's just determined!

 

I really have no idea how to train her so she STAYS on the finger perch. I've heard that Greys are not good for the shoulder... because they can be unpredictable and accidentally bite ears or poke out eyes. I would rather keep my ears and eyes so it's worth keeping her off the shoulder. But, she wants to be there so badly (her first parent taught her for the five months he had her), that I have occasionally let her go to the shoulder.

 

Well, that's the update. :-)

[Ronda477]

Well good to hear some more good news!

 

With the stepping up, Every time you go to make her do it, make sure she follows up with it and even if she doesn't feel like it. She will understand than that when you say step up you mean business and she has to do that. In the long run it's only for her safety.

 

And as for her flopping to the floor, she can really hurt her breast bone if not careful. When you have her on your hand, hold her toes with your thumb, for some added safety. If she goes to flopping around you can at least hurry up and bring her close to your body and get her calmed back down and than resume the hand perch. But try not to let her fall. They are top heavy birds and they can easily damage their breast bones. As for taking her out of the cage, just do what your doing and make her come out when you want her to, don't give in. Just remember your training the bird, not she's training you lol.

 

And as for the shoulder, all parrots in general aren't good shoulder birds because of they aren't reliable. But many of us do it. It all comes down to what chances you are willing to take and you mainly have to be able to read your birds body language and be aware of it while on your shoulder. If you don't want her there, than don't let her. It will be a fight for a little bit, but eventually she will learn. They are smart birds. They like to have the height though and that's why they love it there.

 

Thanks for the updates!!!