Brutus attacked me!

[chezron]

I have not been on the forum for awhile. I am very sad because of recent behavior changes with Brutus. As you know, my husband left several years ago and I am divorced. In the last few months, I met a very sweet man and he is spending more time with me at my house. He has been trying to make points by feeding nuts to my parrots-including Brutus. As you also know, I love Brutus very much! My parrots get organic fresh food, frequent baths and frequent trips outside for sunshine. I have handled Brutus less and less since my husband left. We had a bedtime ritual that seemed to keep me safe from biting. He would fly upstairs and dangle on the door while I retrieved him and put him in his cage. This is because I got bit a few times after he stepped up. This method had worked very well for several years. In the last few weeks, Brutus has bitten me several times as I put him to bed. Lately, it has escalated to him attacking my face. I will no longer try to pick him up. I am lucky he didn't get my eye! I consulted a trainer who said to reduce sweet fruits and increase vegetables. She said to only use nuts as treats. I am making these changes. She said to start to train him with treats so we can do more-and-more without bites. I don't know how to begin to train him because I am terrified of being attacked again. Have any of you dealt with this kind of situation? What do I do? He seems fine during the day. He is out all day: eating, flying, sitting around, and talking. This trainer told me he is frustrated for whatever reason, and it really doesn't matter why. We couldn't get Brutus to take any nuts while she was at my house and I feel I wasted a big chunk of money for just some words. I feel kind of hopeless right now. I only touch Brutus when he is in his cage now. I rub his beak and head and kiss his beak. Please advise. Another trainer said to clip his wings to make him behave. This seems barbaric and unnecessary to me. I am also afraid of him breaking his keel when he tries to fly. Please help!

[Greywings]

You mentioned he is out during the day and active but not lunging to bite until you try to retrieve him for his sleep time? It sounds like he does not want to return to his cage and is trying to avoid doing so. With your current fears (well earned) he is reading your body language and knows he is able to make you react (yes they can be drama queens). A wing clip might be helpful if he were swooping at you during the normal out time during your day but not suggested if the bite only happens when you try to get him to come to you. I would not offer him food outside the cage make it the only place for food and treats ,so it becomes a positive place for him. You should try making the areas he goes to dark before you want him to leave that area or avoid his going there. Try to avoid the bite so that behavior is not getting reinforced, maybe offer a perch to step onto or just leaving his cage area lit in an effort to guide him that way.

[SRSeedBurners]

Just a question as I have absolutely no idea how to remedy this: Is/was Brutus particular to your ex? I.e does he prefer males? If so, I'm guessing the new male coming into the household is causing him to revert to old behaviors? You actually might try reaching out to Barbara Heindenrich, or at least getting one of her books, I believe 'The Parrot Problem Solver' is the one I'm thinking of.

 

 

Something to try is maybe start clicker training. I used this to stop our new conure in her tracks as she was becoming excessively abusive/clingy with me (it's a conure thing) and I needed to get her to do a few things like step up so I could curb her nasty bites on my face etc... I then started clicker training the other birds, including GreycieMae. I noticed they all seem to listen to me a lot better now. It's like it smashed a communication barrier, all except my Caique. He's a little to ADHD and I really got nowhere with him.

[Kya]

My first thought was the new boyfriend / male attachment, as well. Don't want to get personal, but if he is staying overnight, and this is only happening at bed time, that could be your trigger. You're all he's had for awhile, then this new guy comes in and starts feeding him nuts, so he's looking pretty promising, but at this point, he's also taking up your time.

 

Somedays, I almost think we should all have our psychology degree before we can have a parrot in our home, especially the smarter ones like the greys. I do not, so I seem to stumble around in the dark more often than not!

 

And I can totally relate to your fear from the bites. They hurt, they are unpredictable, and it's very difficult NOT to show hesitancy or fear. I haven't been bitten by our grey, but I was brutally attacked by our cockatoo many, many times, to the point where he now lives in a sanctuary. Our grey does not like me, he's clearly my husband's boy, but I spend a lot of time talking to him (in his cage) and I am his servant for his many treat demands. When he is out, I just remove myself to another room with a good book. He has never bit me, but if I try to stay in the room when he is out, he will walk up and peck me on the arm, repeatedly and with more force, until I move as far away from my husband as he can get me. My husband and I both love him dearly, and I don't mind some time to myself, so we just do what Kya wants. Probably not the best of plans, but the easiest way to make things work for us.

 

I would try the clicker training, and using a perch to get him back in the cage. Maybe cut back on his out of cage time a bit, change up his routine. He doesn't have to be out all day. Make his bed time earlier.

 

Best of luck to you. I hope you can work this out.

[Talon]

My only suggestion is to shut off all the lights when you want to put him to bed. They will not want to fly in the dark as he cant see. Talon doesn't like to go to bed, so I have to shut the lights off to keep her from flying away. She eagerly steps up in the dark as well.

[birdhouse]

You gotta calm down, hon. That's always the single biggest step in the right direction. Don't take it personally. Don't insist on much of anything for the time being. Don't create confrontational situations. Especially episodes that escalate fear* (for either one of you). Always better to take a step back & regroup because once they relize you're well & truly rattled, things will always get worse. Always.

 

I think everyone's got excellent points. I would especially agree that you might try shutting down the lights, reading "The Parrot Problem Solver" asap & maybe give Brutus a light trim if it sounds better to you. The idea is not to deny him flight. Just make him second guess his bad*$$ kamikasi attitude by slowing him down a bit.

 

Before I get into some other possibilities, I really would like to hear how Brutus is w/the boyfriend. How is he w/you whenever the boyfriend's around? And is the drama anynmore or less likely to happen if he's there at Brutus' bedtime?

 

 

 

* “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

- Frank Herbert, Dune

[Dave007]

I have not been on the forum for awhile. I am very sad because of recent behavior changes with Brutus. As you know, my husband left several years ago and I am divorced. In the last few months, I met a very sweet man and he is spending more time with me at my house. He has been trying to make points by feeding nuts to my parrots-including Brutus. As you also know, I love Brutus very much! My parrots get organic fresh food, frequent baths and frequent trips outside for sunshine. I have handled Brutus less and less since my husband left. We had a bedtime ritual that seemed to keep me safe from biting. He would fly upstairs and dangle on the door while I retrieved him and put him in his cage. This is because I got bit a few times after he stepped up. This method had worked very well for several years. In the last few weeks, Brutus has bitten me several times as I put him to bed. Lately, it has escalated to him attacking my face. I will no longer try to pick him up. I am lucky he didn't get my eye! I consulted a trainer who said to reduce sweet fruits and increase vegetables. She said to only use nuts as treats. I am making these changes. She said to start to train him with treats so we can do more-and-more without bites. I don't know how to begin to train him because I am terrified of being attacked again. Have any of you dealt with this kind of situation? What do I do? He seems fine during the day. He is out all day: eating, flying, sitting around, and talking. This trainer told me he is frustrated for whatever reason, and it really doesn't matter why. We couldn't get Brutus to take any nuts while she was at my house and I feel I wasted a big chunk of money for just some words. I feel kind of hopeless right now. I only touch Brutus when he is in his cage now. I rub his beak and head and kiss his beak. Please advise. Another trainer said to clip his wings to make him behave. This seems barbaric and unnecessary to me. I am also afraid of him breaking his keel when he tries to fly. Please help!

 

 

Maybe I'm reading your post incorrectly.

Are you saying that in the past,it sounds like your bird used to bite you but you devised a method that would lessen the biting which in uour eyes d\seemed successfu; If so, that was a mistake simply because it only put the biting on the backburner. Right now you're afraid thayt your bird will bite you in all the wrong places that will cause serious injury. First off, never kiss any bird on the beak who has a history of biting. Actually, never let a bird kiss you on the mouth. The biting may subside but the desire is still there and you can't be sure that the bird will or will not bite you. Sometimes, a person has to revert to other methods that are used with youg birds. Your bird will bite your hands or arms so you need to retrain your bird with another item. That item is a short perch where you can pick him up and put him in the cage. He'll bite the stick but not your hands.*I no longer try to pick him up* You'll need that perch for a while until he becomes more trusting of you all over again. I totally disagree with the wing clipping bullshit. Your problem is'nt him trying to hunt you out. The problem is when you're close to him. I have no idea how giving more veggies and less fruit is gonna help. If you have to feed him, make sure he's out of the cage when filling the bowls. *He is out all day: eating, flying, sitting around, and talking** All greys do that whether they're biters or not.

As far as I can see, your big problem is the handling him close up.

Now as far as the new man in the house.--- Lets pretend that you're Brutus. Would you like 1 or 2 people feeding treats. 2 people means double the pleasure. Your boyfriend and you should be doing these actions at the same time. That also applies to other things that you do with the bird. A bird can realize that 2 people are equal.

Some of these routines have to be lessened. THese things are simply basics that have to do with retraining a bird. Then there's other things that you can ytry out that have been mentioned in this thread but curing the bird of these bad habits should be first on your list of things to do. Remember that perch (8 to 10 inches) which should be used in many areas.

[chezron]

Brutus prefers me and I think he is concerned about the new boyfriend. I WANT to start clicker training, but am not sure how to do it.

[chezron]

He was so pathetic last night. He clearly wants our old routine back but I cannot trust him. He has never bitten my face before and it freaks me out. Last night he flew to the door and dangled from it by his beak, and did this a number of times, with his little legs churning in the air looking for my hand. I told him I cannot pick him up if he bites. He even flung himself against the closed door when I went to bed. Next time, I will try a stick perch. I want to start clicker training or training with treats, but he does not seem interested in nuts. He hasn't had them for several days, and I thought he would be eager for some. I put them in his cage as an enticement, but he is stubborn! My boyfriend is feeding them all nuts to get on their good side.

[SRSeedBurners]

Definitely give the clicker training a try. I wasn't sure how to do it either and I'm still not sure how to do advanced techniques. However my GreycieMae is now twirling for treats, even when I don't ask (which I don't reward) and is currently learning to roll over. She also recalls now (when she wants to), will sometimes fetch my target stick and a couple other things.

 

 

I use the 'Starmark Pro Training Clicker, Blue/Orange' which was what I found in the pet store one day. Nothing special. My target stick is a wooden chop stick from the Pho joint I can't stay out of. I'm looking for a metal one as the birdies tend to get distracted wanting to split the target stick into splinters..no no no....

 

I'm assuming Brutus will sit still somewhere so put him there and immediately ask him to touch the target stick by putting it right in front of his beak. He'll touch it just because it's there then - click - treat. Over and over for about 2-5 minutes, never past the point where they lose focus. I did this probably 3-4 sessions the first day and she finally got the point that touching results in clicking results in treat. I started increasing the distance to the target I was asking to touch. After that I started asking her to jump down off her perch and run across the counter to touch. Fly across to a chair and touch. Up off the floor to my knee and touch. When 'touch' was down pat I started on the turn around (got it in one session) and recall (one session) and a few other things. Roll over is proving harder as she is scared to flop over unless she's distracted playing.

 

I also found training when they are hungry is almost crucial. GreycieMae will flat out ignore my requests if she's not interested in scoring treats. The Parrot Wizard has gotten in a little trouble because some claim he starves his birds. He probably just does similar, finds an opportune time to train. I don't starve my birds but they do come in from the aviary expecting to be fed - TRAINING time knuckleheads!

 

Holding the clicker and target with the same hand helps to so you can present the treat in a timely manner. They do expect to be rewarded! I used shelled sunflower seeds and pine/pinion nuts. I also cheat and just give them small pieces or I've found the time between trick & treat takes to damn long and I start to lose focus. GreycieMae now must work for her very occasional bits of cheese. She would run outside and work on my car for cheese. She'll do anything for cheese. Too bad they're not supposed to have much of it.

 

Since you're going to stick perch him, you will also want to clicker train him for that too. It gets the lil brains sidetracked from their original intent if it was naughty.

 

I'll see if I can get a video of GreycieMae doing some of her clicker work. It's nothing earth-shattering but the basics are there.

[chezron]

Thank you so much Sterling SL! That is exactly what i need to do. I think I will try delaying food so he is hungry when i do the training. I know what you mean about cheese! My guy is the same! I would love to see your video!

[VStar Mama]

I thought that clicker training is begun by priming the parrot's response to the clicker by pairing the click with a treat. So the parrot learns that when he/she hears the sound a treat is forthcoming. Then you teach the parrot to target on the stick by presenting the stick and clicking (and then rewarding) as soon as the bird touches it.

[SRSeedBurners]

I skipped step one. I put the target in their face to touch so they absolutely couldn't fail. My Jardines, who I would compare to a Border Collie, knew what to do within two clicks. I want to believe GreycieMae is smarter than a Jardines, as they supposedly have that reputation, but she took longer to get focused.

[Greywings]

There is a facebook clicker training group on line that will help you if needed.

[SRSeedBurners]

There is a facebook clicker training group on line that will help you if needed.

 

This one? 'Parrot Clicker Training and Behavior Modification'. I went searching when I first started and they only had 10 members, now have 12. I didn't figure I'd find much in the way of advanced stuff which I'm clueless about.

[SRSeedBurners]

And a lil video of GreycieMae doing her very basic clicker training. She's pretty quick to get on with it already so I can't really slow down and show the basic steps. I've found it just helps to 'watch someone else do it'!

 

 

The last bit is the 'rollover'. She has yet to do that successfully. I didn't realize I was behind a lamp. However you can see I'm helping her do what I'm asking. She has already started to try and roll since I showed her what I want, she's just scared of the vulnerable position.

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2016 by SterlingSL

[Timbersmom]

Great video! Thanks for posting.

[Inara]

Great vid, as usual Sterling! Tried clicker training with HRH Inara early on, and in typical Grey style she figured it out ASAP and in a short amount of time, she would (for example) fly over to me or spin around on her perch, or hang upsidedown, then she'd make the clicker sound herself, and would then would demand, "Cheese!" Classic anticipatory response. Needless to say, we tabled clicker training. She's more motivated by face to beak time and affection -- although she always gets a teensy piece of cheese every single time she goes home to the perch on her cage door, after the door is shut. So she never puts up a fuss about going home.

 

Clicker training *is* and can be a very effective training method, if a creature is highly food motivated and if done before regular feeding times. Food is a powerful motivator for all eating creatures including toddlers and grown up hoomans. (Eat your peas, and then you can have dessert....)

 

You can shape the behavior in small stages, and in the case of Brutus, you might begin with a click and reward for him just hanging at the door without making any move toward you. Then follow Dave's advice and use a stick perch to engage him off the doorway -- click and reward when he moves to the perch. Walk with him toward his home, click and reward part way there. Take him home for bed, click and reward *after* he is in the cage and the door is shut. (so that you are safe). Insert as many intermediate steps in between the doorway to perch and to bed as needed as long as Brutus is calm and not making moves toward you, don't rush the process. Personally, I would begin this process *not* at bedtime, but at various times of the day, and immediately let him out afterward so that Brutus has going home as a "game" where it is fun, he gets attention and rewarded and is not always put to bed when you use the stick perch, for example. When his home/sleeping area becomes a place of consistent rewards, and is not just where he has to go to go to bed, then it can be a more welcome retreat for him.

 

Behavior shaping takes small steps, lots of rewards, and lots of patience. It also takes a lot of accuracy with the click, so that you are shaping the correct behavior and not something completely offbase. It's well worth getting a good DVD or book. I really would encourage you to check out Barbara Heidenreich's information: http://www.goodbirdinc.com/

She is an ethical and excellent behaviorist.

 

I have no freaking idea why cutting back on fruits, etc. was even brought up by the consultant. Personally, I'm not one for wing clipping as a means of control either. Brutus has likely noticed that things have changed around you and your home, with the introduction of the new guy, and it is hard to determine the motive behind his behavior. It could even be one of wanting to protect you, by staying out where he can observe everything that is going on rather than going away to bed. Who knows? We cannot ever know what their thought processes are unless they actually tell us verbally, we can only guess and often wind up ascribing our behaviors to them and can be totally off base.

 

Wishing you much success, Brutus is telling you something, and he is a lucky fellow to have someone like you who is "listening" to him. You will get this sorted out. There are no bad birds, there's just the classic Cool Hand Luke "What we have here, is a failure to communicate." :D

[katana600]

You really have your work cut out for you. I'm sorry Brutus has his beak out of joint for whatever reason. That is no reason for you to be injured. I agree with the advice you have been given. There are hand perches out there with a cup that will protect your fingers. Also, if there is a certain situation of setup that provokes him and is a trigger for biting, it is easier to avoid that particular sequence of events rather than to redirect him once he is in that "mode". Do you see body language prior to him striking you? With Miss Gilbert, I have to quietly go over the events preceding a sucker punch. Invariably, I recognize that I contributed to her set up by missing some vital, yet subtle clues that she is getting agitated. She has a poker face to die for and makes it exceptionally difficult to get to know her. If you are able to change your routine with Brutus, to get him to return to his cage mid afternoon rather than being escorted there, it might be better for him to get more time in there to pre-empt the evening battle.

 

On the companionship front, yes Brutus has been your go-to guy for a long time and has helped ease your transition through your divorce. He is still your companion and still needs your love and attention. But, he is not your mate and you don't owe him celibacy or having to sneak out behind his back to enjoy time with your significant other. It is commendable that you are seriously dating and that he is willing to work with Brutus alongside you to gain his place in the flock. If you do change your routine, it might be wise to keep it between you and Brutus so he doesn't blame it on his "rival". For instance, if you put him in his cage in the afternoon, do it while his rival is out of the house. Try to keep from having a sequence which connects his cage time with the arrival of your date.

 

Since we really have no way of knowing what the reason is for Brutus biting you, it is much better to avoid the situation that permits him that access. I am so sorry he is being such a turd to you. It may have been building up for a really long time and will take a lot of love, patience and time to figure it out and to get back to that loving, trusting relationship you once had with him.

[chezron]

You guys are great! The only progress i have made is withholding nuts to get him to go in his cage. He seems relieved to be in his cage for the night. I still can scratch his head and rub his beak through the bars. I tried clicker training making a "clicker" sound with the side of my mouth (it sounds just like it), but he is not AT ALL interested in small pieces of nuts. He does not recognize them as food. I guess I could withhold food except for inside his cage because he only occasionally goes in at night. I wish with all of my heart that I could handle him they way Sterling does Greycie. I am freaked out and Brutus is too. My boyfriend comes over and gives them all nuts. I think Brutus kind of likes my boyfriend, but is still protective of me. I know this because he does a "fly by" over his head at times. I am such a wimp that Brutus totally intimidates me. I wish i could get some help with this because I don't think I can do it on my own. I tried turning off the lights, but he flies away and lands on the floor. I am too nervous and anxious to do anything with him right now. He needs a strong owner who is not intimidated. I am not that person, and I feel pretty hopeless right now.

[Inara]

Once that fear cycle gets started, it is really hard to move past it and to retrain yourself and Brutus. I am wondering how things would go if you go completely back to square one and both begin over as if Brutus is a new to you bird? By this I mean put him in his cage and then leave him there except for daily cleaning and dish changing. Using a mobile perch to move him. Only give him a nut when he is back in his cage and only allow your boyfriend to give him a nut when Brutus is in the cage. Spend time near the cage consistently and give him lots of in cage head rubs and relaxed friendship building talks.

 

Build up the rapport while Brutus is not roaming around and while you are safe from any attacks. It is not b oing to hurt Brutus to spend a lot of time in his cage for a few weeks. Some birds actually prefer their cage time because after all it u s their home and nest. HRH Inara only likes to be out for about 2 hours max a couple times a day and prefers to putter around in, play in, and nap in her home the rest of the time.

 

It is not punishing Brutus to have him spend more cage time, look at it as a reboot and an opportunity for the two of y I u to bond and start anew as you would if you adopted a rehomed bird.

 

We are all here to help and are cheering you on.

[chezron]

Update: Brutus goes in his cage most evenings with the promise of nuts, specifically cashews. He also gets lots of head and beak rubs while he is in his cage, and he is starting to associate the two. I am pleased with this development. Do I wish I could handle him more without fear of bites? Yes, but both he and I are satisfied with our current level of, at least, some physical affection.

[Acappella]

So glad you two have reached an understanding. Hopefully you can move forward from here.

[Timbersmom]

Great progress. It's always one day at a time with greys, and never fast enough for us (me anyway). So happy to hear you are working your way back though!

[Inara]

Really nice news! You have the rest of your lives to continue to allow your bond to grow and develop into one that is comfortable for you both. Keep relaxing into it, and allow it to be whatever it shall be.