Maybe I'm Crazy

[Giannine]

Hello everyone,

I am a single mom of 7 kids, a Boxer, Shih-Tzu, and a tank full of ocean critters. We live in the Seattle area. I recently made the decision to add a Timneh African Grey to our family. Crazy? Maybe. Two of my kids are adults and a 3rd will be 18-years-old this year so my household is thinning some. My 19-year-old son is on the Autism spectrum and still lives at home and probably will for several years to come, if not permanently.

 

My youngest is 7-years-old. When I began researching these fascinating creatures (Greys), their long lifespan initially scared me into committing to one. But then after thinking about my future more, I came to the realization that their long lifespan is exactly what is going to help me deal with empty nest syndrome when my last child leaves home. I dread that day. It will be nice to have company here that will hopefully be here well into my old age.

 

I am still in the process of researching breeders but in the meantime, the little ones have started a "Parrot fund" where all spare change goes. So far, there is $72 in it. They put any and all money they receive there to help with the cost of our future family member which I think is great.

 

I was up until nearly 3am last night reading Dee's thread about Gilbert. That thread solidly confirmed to me how awesome and fascinating these birds really are. We cannot wait to add one to our family and I look forward to learning more from you all here. Thanks for reading and God bless!

[Luvparrots]

Welcome to the GreyForums Family Giannine. Do you like Timneh or Congo Greys? I have both and they are both wonderful greys with such different personalities. Looking forward to hearing more about you and your adventure in to the African Grey world.

[Giannine]

Thank you. According to my research, a Timneh seems to be the better fit for my family. There definitely seems to be a very large difference in popularity between the two. Timnehs are not nearly as easy to find as the Congos.

 

I have read from several different sources that Timnehs are better suited for families and have more "stable" dispositions as far as being able to handle stress and change better. I would be very interested in hearing from members here about their experiences with both.

[SRSeedBurners]

Another one that can't deal with empty-nest! Join the club, I'm a founder

 

I had a Grey when I was 19 that I lost to a divorce after a few years. I spent the next 20 years wishing I had that Grey back (he/she is in the care of one of my aunt's so I just left it be) or any Grey. Finally when I was about 1.5 years out from my daughter leaving the house I couldn't resist getting a Grey to dote on since my two-legged version was about to walk out and there was no stopping her. I now have a feathered kid that likes to swing and do all the things a kid likes to do

[Luvparrots]

"I have read from several different sources that Timnehs are better suited for families and have more "stable" dispositions as far as being able to handle stress and change better. I would be very interested in hearing from members here about their experiences with both."

 

I got my Timneh, Ana Grey, first and she is very calm and very sure of herself. She is small and very confident. I have had her in my home since 2008. As long as you feed her nuts/seeds she loves you, anyone. My Congo, Sterling Gris, is a big guy with light grey tones. I got him about one-half years after my Timneh. He is much more leery of others except me. Ana Grey is the boss and he follows her lead although she is much smaller than him. Different personalities. They do live together without problems but they do not really interact.

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by luvparrots

[Giannine]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I found this article to be very interesting (I hope it's ok to post the link. If not, I will remove): http://www.africangreys.com/articles/greys/species.htm

 

Jane Hallander did a very small study on the two. One thing she found is that it is quite common for Congos to switch human bonds (63% did, I believe) while Timnehs did not at all (again, this is a small study). Also it is said Timnehs are far less likely to pluck. This was based on her interactions with owners of both at a Pet Bird Report Convention panel discussion. Though I do love the bright red tails of the Congos and find them to be a bit more aesthetically pleasing, I really do want a bird that is best suited for our family. I am thinking ahead to the changes it will experience, as well, with family members leaving and the household becoming less active.

[SRSeedBurners]

I actually read that article long before I got my Grey. It seems to infer that Timnehs might make the better bird but I was hell bent on a Congo. I'm pretty sure I have a Congo gene in me somewhere that makes me prefer that Grey bird with the bright red tail. I've always been drawn to them like nothing else. I would have taken a Timneh too. They're pretty much the same in my book.

 

Either way you go they make great companions if you treat them right. That's the key. No matter how many positive traits a bird may have we can easily screw them up without proper care and attention. You can't leave these birds without socialization constantly. You're basically adding another child to the family.

[Giannine]

Absolutely...I agree 100%. How they are treated and handled is key. I know trust is a huge thing and so is stability, and spending a lot of time with them. I am home every day and it is for the reason that it is like adding another child to the family that was the determining factor for me to get one:)

[Giannine]

I just read this informative piece off of Jean Pattison's website regarding Timnehs:

The Timneh Grey doesn't have nearly such a confusing background as the African Grey. When studying the range of the Timneh Grey, we start in the same country as we did with the African Grey, but we start at the western edge of the Ivory Coast and go in an arch north-west, ending up in southern Guinea. In following Forshaw's "Parrots of The World," this shows that the range of the Timneh Grey and the African Grey do not overlap. Some people speculate that perhaps they do. Timneh greys inhabit a very small area as compared to the African Grey.

 

It is a shame we use the African grey as a comparison when trying to describe the Timneh Grey. This is, no doubt, due to the overwhelming abundance of the African Grey as a companion bird, as opposed to the infrequency of available baby Timnehs. Actually, they are quite a bit different in looks and temperament.

 

The Timneh grey weighs about 250-350 grams and is a deep charcoal grey, with a maroon tail. The scalloping on the feathers is very delicate and breathtaking, due to the contrast of white against charcoal. The tail, can be almost red, through every shade of maroon to browns and even almost black.

 

The Timneh Grey doesn't seem to carry the same regal air, or dignity, the African Grey projects. Because of this, Timnehs seem to be more capable of being silly and more apt to go to extremes to get your attention, and join in the fun. Timneh Greys are family oriented, and will interact with strangers more readily than a lot of pet parrots.

 

Timnehs should also have a spacious cage, with a multitude of toys. Most parrots like to hang, and swing on toys that hang from the ceiling in their cage, and the Timneh is no exception. They enjoy, fighting with their toys. Toys for chewing is a must, so provide plenty of soft wood, especially for that recreation.

 

Timnehs are excellent talkers, some with hundred word vocabularies. They too, can mimic many different voices and sounds. It seems, a natural sound that some seem to find, is a short "smoke detector" beep.

 

The average cost of the Timneh Grey is about $800.00 to $1,000.00.

[SRSeedBurners]

Some good facts there but looks like she's trying to compartmentalize the two. Check out Felix on FB and Princess Joupyter of Project Perry. Joupyter (timneh) is definitely a PRINCESS of regal air and dignity. My Grey is probably one of the silliest birds around. These birds, just like humans are some percentage nature and the rest nurture. All my birds tend to be very playful and rowdy and that's entirely due to the way I handle them. We're a very playful house and a Timneh or a Congo would end up with some percentage of that just by living here.

[katana600]

I have had both Congo African greys (CAG) and currently have a Timneh African grey (TAG). The circumstances have been different for each of them and each has had unique qualities and outcomes. I personally think it comes down to the character of the individual parrot and the home environment and family dynamics. I highly recommend rehoming a parrot if you have the desire, the time and the willingness to commit to seeing it through. Regardless, there is a steep learning curve and once you get the concept of grey time, the rewards are unmeasurable. If you have your heart set on a CAG, go with it. Getting a TAG hoping for it to be a "better model" may not lead you to the right fit if your heart soars when you see a CAG. I so loved my baby CAG Juno and when he died unexpectedly, a part of my heart never recovered. There is a yearning that will never be filled, but with that said, I just had a breakthrough moment with Miss Gilbert and she just let me rub her head outside her cage and there is no better sense of awe at her strength to overcome adversity. She is not, nor ever will be a replacement for Juno or Kopi but I can attest to the power of this little grey fluff of feathers lining my empty nest with purpose and great rewards. Good luck with your search, you will find your match regardless of the CAG/TAG decision.

[Giannine]

I have had both Congo African greys (CAG) and currently have a Timneh African grey (TAG). The circumstances have been different for each of them and each has had unique qualities and outcomes. I personally think it comes down to the character of the individual parrot and the home environment and family dynamics. I highly recommend rehoming a parrot if you have the desire, the time and the willingness to commit to seeing it through. Regardless, there is a steep learning curve and once you get the concept of grey time, the rewards are unmeasurable. If you have your heart set on a CAG, go with it. Getting a TAG hoping for it to be a "better model" may not lead you to the right fit if your heart soars when you see a CAG. I so loved my baby CAG Juno and when he died unexpectedly, a part of my heart never recovered. There is a yearning that will never be filled, but with that said, I just had a breakthrough moment with Miss Gilbert and she just let me rub her head outside her cage and there is no better sense of awe at her strength to overcome adversity. She is not, nor ever will be a replacement for Juno or Kopi but I can attest to the power of this little grey fluff of feathers lining my empty nest with purpose and great rewards. Good luck with your search, you will find your match regardless of the CAG/TAG decision.

 

Thank you, Dee! I have to tell you, I was up until 3am a few nights ago reading your thread on Gilbert. Reading all of your stories, struggles, and successes about "him" turned "her" really solidified my want to keep one of these birds. Absolutely fascinating. I just got finished telling my 17-year-old son some of the Gilbert stories and he said, "Wow, they sound really interesting". I have been talking to the kids about African Greys for awhile now and the little kids (ages 7, 8, and 11) have been the most on-board and enthusiastic about one joining our family. Anthony's response to hearing about Gilbert was the first real enthusiasm I have seen from one of the older kids.

 

I did think of rehoming a Grey but my fear of being a first time owner kind of stands in the way. I have my heart set on a Timneh. Congos are very easy to find my the Timnehs are not at all. I am on two waiting lists now but would be interested in hearing your input (and others') as to whether or not a first time Grey owner would be suitable for a rehomed bird.

 

Thank you for sharing your experiences over the years...they are quite insightful and entertaining!

[Greywings]

We live with one Timneh and 5 Congo Greys, the Timi is attached to one of our sons but allows head scratches from most of us. He is the most aggressive of all our pets and will go out of his way to pull fur or bite a tail of our long suffering cats and dogs. He chases the other birds and has no fear of any other life form. The Congos are more laid back for the most part and two of them allow anyone to handle them one allows no one and the other two are selective as to whom is allowed. All our birds are either rescues or rehomes and all are loved. Some come from a great home and some have sad memories. No matter what bird you end up with you are on the right path learning as you get closer to your goal, the right bird may find you.

[SRSeedBurners]

 

I did think of rehoming a Grey but my fear of being a first time owner kind of stands in the way. I have my heart set on a Timneh. Congos are very easy to find my the Timnehs are not at all. I am on two waiting lists now but would be interested in hearing your input (and others') as to whether or not a first time Grey owner would be suitable for a rehomed bird.

 

 

We've had two re-homes and three babies. I've absolutely fallen for the re-homes and kind of look on our babies as spoiled brats that don't know how bad it can get. We've lost both of the rehomes and it absolutely tore us up. One I lost almost three years ago and still have trouble looking at her photos. Re-homes are diamonds in the rough. Both of re-homes were leery of us at first and the small breakthroughs are what make them all worth it. They're a different kind of experience but very worth it.

[Giannine]

We live with one Timneh and 5 Congo Greys, the Timi is attached to one of our sons but allows head scratches from most of us. He is the most aggressive of all our pets and will go out of his way to pull fur or bite a tail of our long suffering cats and dogs. He chases the other birds and has no fear of any other life form. The Congos are more laid back for the most part and two of them allow anyone to handle them one allows no one and the other two are selective as to whom is allowed. All our birds are either rescues or rehomes and all are loved. Some come from a great home and some have sad memories. No matter what bird you end up with you are on the right path learning as you get closer to your goal, the right bird may find you.

 

Thank you very much for sharing. I will definitely consider a bird needing a new home. I see how much everyone here cares about these birds and help in any way they can so I know regardless, I will have support here when I have questions and concerns. I love your avatar, by the way:-)

[Giannine]

We've had two re-homes and three babies. I've absolutely fallen for the re-homes and kind of look on our babies as spoiled brats that don't know how bad it can get. We've lost both of the rehomes and it absolutely tore us up. One I lost almost three years ago and still have trouble looking at her photos. Re-homes are diamonds in the rough. Both of re-homes were leery of us at first and the small breakthroughs are what make them all worth it. They're a different kind of experience but very worth it.

 

Thank you for this insight! It actually helps me see the brighter side of a rehomed bird. Not that I think of them as negative, just more challenging.

[Acappella]

Rehomes are def a different kind of challenge but soooo worth it. My Dorian was completely cage bound and terrified of hands when he came home with me and it took literally years before he would step up for me or leave his cage and venture into a different room. Every little step in the right direction was something to be celebrated, mostly here where people understood what a big deal they were. While a rehome unpacks their baggage there are heartbreaks along the way as you try to convince them that all you are trying to do is open up their world with caring and love and all they see are potential threats. Even a rehome coming from a good situation may take a long time to unpack and accept their new flock, but understand there are no guarantees with babies. A fid that you've had since babyhood may hit the age of two and develop all sorts of behavioural challenges that can have a parront on here begging for guidance. These birds are nothing if not challenging, but that's part of their magic. They make you work for it! lol

[Greywings]

Thank you for the compliment on my Avatar that is Pookie who came to us from an ecellent rescue in New Mexico she was 21 years old and came from a lovely home whose people were getting to sick and frail to continue keeping all their flock. They surrendered some of their least troublesome feathered friends to new homes and retained the most difficult personalities for later. Pookie had no difficulty adapting to either the rescue or her car trip from New Mexico to Houston. Sat on my lap and sang "Old MacDonald had a Farm", meowed like a cat and called me Mommy while enjoying her journey. Right at home from the beginning, she came to us with a habit of plucking her neck and belly when nervous. Now she has mostly re-feathered both areas. You will know when you meet the right bird. It was love at first sight for both of us.

[Giannine]

Thank you for the compliment on my Avatar that is Pookie who came to us from an ecellent rescue in New Mexico she was 21 years old and came from a lovely home whose people were getting to sick and frail to continue keeping all their flock. They surrendered some of their least troublesome feathered friends to new homes and retained the most difficult personalities for later. Pookie had no difficulty adapting to either the rescue or her car trip from New Mexico to Houston. Sat on my lap and sang "Old MacDonald had a Farm", meowed like a cat and called me Mommy while enjoying her journey. Right at home from the beginning, she came to us with a habit of plucking her neck and belly when nervous. Now she has mostly re-feathered both areas. You will know when you meet the right bird. It was love at first sight for both of us.

 

That is an adorable story. How long have you had her?

[katana600]

Ah, I misinterpreted your first post as thinking a Timneh was the best fit from your research and thought that meant you were swayed away from a Congo because of the idea a Timneh would adapt to your household better. My advice remains to follow your heart. When Gilbert was offered, I couldn't bear to think about replacing either of our Congo babies. Then I spent five months agonizing over my heart thinking it was the right thing to do but my brain saying it was too much of a commitment to an unknown. There was no illusion that I was getting a multiple rehome with a history of issues. I had to think very hard about whether I could commit and stick to it no matter how she behaved in our life. After that kind of beginning, a failed rehome would be tragic. Would I recommend taking a hard case rehome for a first time parrot? Probably not at your life stage, but I wouldn't rule it out without knowing you personally. I think there are fewer tough cases on the forum than cherished rehomed greys living in long term, well-adjusted forever homes. You are doing the right thing to study first. The pitfalls, mess, and pure exhilaration that comes with giving your heart and companionship to an exquisite and complicated character can't be told as much as lived to understand what it means to love your African grey. When the time is right you will know it. I "kinda" thought about it for twenty years and here I am now knowing Miss Gilbert was meant to find me.

[reptoman]

I am seeing almost the same research we did around a year and a half ago. I came to the same conclusion. We found a baby Timneh girl 3 hours away and could not be happier! I have several threads in the nursery forum from around this time last year showing her development from a week old until we got her home. Zoe has been a great addition to our family.

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?202334-New-baby-coming-soon!

Edited April 9, 2016 by reptoman

[Giannine]

Ah, I misinterpreted your first post as thinking a Timneh was the best fit from your research and thought that meant you were swayed away from a Congo because of the idea a Timneh would adapt to your household better. My advice remains to follow your heart. When Gilbert was offered, I couldn't bear to think about replacing either of our Congo babies. Then I spent five months agonizing over my heart thinking it was the right thing to do but my brain saying it was too much of a commitment to an unknown. There was no illusion that I was getting a multiple rehome with a history of issues. I had to think very hard about whether I could commit and stick to it no matter how she behaved in our life. After that kind of beginning, a failed rehome would be tragic. Would I recommend taking a hard case rehome for a first time parrot? Probably not at your life stage, but I wouldn't rule it out without knowing you personally. I think there are fewer tough cases on the forum than cherished rehomed greys living in long term, well-adjusted forever homes. You are doing the right thing to study first. The pitfalls, mess, and pure exhilaration that comes with giving your heart and companionship to an exquisite and complicated character can't be told as much as lived to understand what it means to love your African grey. When the time is right you will know it. I "kinda" thought about it for twenty years and here I am now knowing Miss Gilbert was meant to find me.

 

You pretty much had it correct. When I first started researching, I didn't know there were big differences in their adaptability and ability to handle stress, etc. (supposedly). Because I do have such a big household, I felt (after researching) that a Timneh would be a better fit for a family. I have read multiple things which lead me to that conclusion. I am definitely still leaning toward a Timneh and am on 3 waiting lists for one but I am not closed to getting a Congo. Just as people are all different, so are birds. Getting a Timneh doesn't guarantee a more stable bird:)

 

I read a great deal of your Gilbert thread and many times felt a lot of respect for you because you haven't given up and still deal with struggles (5?) years later. Rehomes seem to be very, very challenging. Joyce Baum recommended a book to me, "Why Does My Bird Do That?" which I just ordered off of Amazon today. I'm grateful to have this time before I get one to read as much as possible

Edited April 9, 2016 by Giannine

[katana600]

Thank you for your kind comments, I have had Miss Gilbert five years now. I appreciate that you read her thread, I know it is lengthy. To be honest, CAG/TAG, baby/rehomed isn't the biggest factor. The innate personality of your parrot mixed with your family creates an every changing dynamic. It really is like living with a two year old... for the rest of your life. There will be days when they are charming, affectionate and cheerful and days when you beg for darkness to come and escape to your slumber hoping for a new day to change your luck. :~} If you go in with the attitude that you will stick with it no matter what, you brain seldom will look for a way out, but for a solution instead.

 

One of the books I read while I was considering a life with parrots is "The Parrot Problem Solver: Finding Solutions to Aggressive Behavior Book by Barbara Heidenreich" My goal was to read about how humans inadvertently turn those cute little chicks into tyrants in the household. It is a good book and she is very astute when it comes to living with companion parrots. The forum members here are an excellent support system. We are just about to reach our retirement years and have gone to great lengths to create good cage systems at our family homes in Pennsylvania and Texas and bought a dream travel van to make it reasonably simple to carry our little flock with us. Our lives ebb and flow and sometimes living with a parrot is easy and entertaining but when they are not happy it is like a perpetually teething, cranky child who only understands having her needs met. Once you embrace the idea that this is not a pet, but a family member with high expectations of you forever, you will make it work regardless of the story behind your initial connection. I appreciate seeing someone thinking about it, researching it and really getting an idea of what it is like to live with a parrot. Even then, it is like attempting to describe parenthood... there is nothing that prepares you for the joy and terror of being handed that new baby with no instruction manual.

[Giannine]

Thank you for your kind comments, I have had Miss Gilbert five years now. I appreciate that you read her thread, I know it is lengthy. To be honest, CAG/TAG, baby/rehomed isn't the biggest factor. The innate personality of your parrot mixed with your family creates an every changing dynamic. It really is like living with a two year old... for the rest of your life. There will be days when they are charming, affectionate and cheerful and days when you beg for darkness to come and escape to your slumber hoping for a new day to change your luck. :~} If you go in with the attitude that you will stick with it no matter what, you brain seldom will look for a way out, but for a solution instead.

 

One of the books I read while I was considering a life with parrots is "The Parrot Problem Solver: Finding Solutions to Aggressive Behavior Book by Barbara Heidenreich" My goal was to read about how humans inadvertently turn those cute little chicks into tyrants in the household. It is a good book and she is very astute when it comes to living with companion parrots. The forum members here are an excellent support system. We are just about to reach our retirement years and have gone to great lengths to create good cage systems at our family homes in Pennsylvania and Texas and bought a dream travel van to make it reasonably simple to carry our little flock with us. Our lives ebb and flow and sometimes living with a parrot is easy and entertaining but when they are not happy it is like a perpetually teething, cranky child who only understands having her needs met. Once you embrace the idea that this is not a pet, but a family member with high expectations of you forever, you will make it work regardless of the story behind your initial connection. I appreciate seeing someone thinking about it, researching it and really getting an idea of what it is like to live with a parrot. Even then, it is like attempting to describe parenthood... there is nothing that prepares you for the joy and terror of being handed that new baby with no instruction manual.

 

I will order that book, as well. I ordered another book off Amazon last night: African Grey Parrots (Complete Owner's Manual) by Margaret T. Wright. I do realize that these birds are more than just pets but pretty much equivalent to children as far as the commitment and work required invested in them. As frustrating as some of your struggles with Gilbert seem to have been, I can see how rewarding your experience with her has been, as well, and it was after reading that thread my decision to add a Grey to our family was even more solidified.

 

At this point, my only bigger concern is my 19-year-old son who is on the Autism spectrum. He speaks in a gruff, monotone and always sounds very rude when he speaks. He spends most of his time downstairs in his room but he doesn't listen when I try to explain why he can't do certain things. He enjoys our pets, especially our Boxer and pretends he isn't interested in my saltwater tank but I have caught him bent over in front of it a few times. I believe he will be more interested in our Grey than he lets on and may take it upon himself to teach it words or phrases I wouldn't approve of. We don't use foul language but I could see him trying to teach words like "idiot" or putting one of his siblings names in front of "idiot". I am not gone often so he wouldn't have ample opportunity to do this but, still...are there any other parents with Autistic or Aspergers kids on here?

[judygram]

I really commend you for doing your homework and asking questions before you make that final decision to add one of these magnificent creatures to your family and whether you go with a baby or a rehome I am sure you will do just fine.

 

Just for the record my grey was bonded to me and didn't really want my hubby to have anything to do with her but in the last couple of years she has changed to being a daddy's girl, he can do things with her I can only sit by and watch but I am glad they get along so well though he doesn't always appreciate the special attention she demands of him, she is going on 10 years old.