End of week 2- w/questions

[Ronda477]

Ok this is the end of week 2 with SweetHeart. There really hasn't been much improvement. She is eating a little better I guess that's an improvement. She finally started taking some things from my hand. But she still won't let me hold her at all. She flies off her stand very little now. No where near as often as she did. It's only about once or twice a day now. She growls at me when I take her out of the cage when I get home from work and heads straight to her seed bowl. She lets me come close to the cage and talk to her but there are more times than not that she will run. I don't force her to step up at all, she does it every time I ask, and I only ask when she flies off or when I am getting her out of the cage to put on her play stand. Even though she growls I make her do it anyway I'm figuring just like our quaker that you kind of have to show them your the boss. Like I said I don't do it very often cause I'm still trying to gain her trust. She won't sit with me at all. She flies right back to her cage. I have tried the picnic thing with her every evening, with the kids on the floor as well and she just runs for her cage or tries to get up on the furniture to get some height so she can fly back to her cage. Or climb up you to get some height but that's all the attention she let you give her. When she uses me to get some height to go back to her cage I sneak in some scratches to the neck and petting on her back and she doesn't growl but doesn't stay for any of it either. So that's really the update I have. Wish there could be more good things. But I do have some questions if you don't care.

 

1. When I put her on the blanket on the floor with some of her toys and she flies back to her cage after not even being down there for a minute with us should I put her back down there with us? Or just let her be?

 

2. In the evenings should I take her to my chair even though she flies back all the time as well as putting her on the blanket?

 

Oh and she was growling and screaching every time my husband went to her cage, finally found out she doesn't like hats. She still runs when she see's him approach her cage and she will step up to him but flies right back to her cage as soon as she steps up. Well that's the end of week 2. Hope week 3 & 4 will get a little better.

[spookyhurst]

I tried playing with Nikko on the floor when I first got her, and she hated it. Two years later, she still hates the floor. Instead, we play on kitchen counter or on the coffee table.

 

Have you thought about trimming her wings? Sometimes that helps settle them down, and she won't be able to fly away from you. After she bonds with the family, you could let them grow out again.

[Ronda477]

She is just determined to fly lol She has 5 count them 5 lol feathers off of each wing!!! And still flies! She can't gain much altitude but some. She hates counters hates tables hates about everything lol. So I am trying my best to be patient it's just hard when you can't handle her at all. Well just long enough to take her in and out of her cage. I know it can be a long road of being patient just wish it would happen sooner than later

[loviechick]

To answer your questions, one of my Greys hates the floor, the other one loves it cause she can hide under the couch, and then loves to come running out and try to bite me toes!:laugh:

 

I'm not sure if you're against it or not, but I would suggest trimming her wings if you can. When I let my birds' wings grow out I can see a definite change in their personality, they get testier, fiestier, and are more apt to run from me. Once I clip those wings, they come to me no problem and I don't have any issues. They know they have more control when they're flighted, and I assure you they DO TAKE FULL advantage of it! More than likely if you put her on the floor and she flies back she's going to keep doing it, at least until she gets used to you.

 

Now keep this in mind, Greys are one of the few species of parrots that prefer to be higher up because of security, not because they are trying to dominate. That's why IMO you don't see as much dominance issues with Greys and tall cages than you do with other birds. My Sun Conure, if she's taller than me, she fully believes she is, and she's a pain to get control of! She doesn't like the floor more than likely because it makes her feel scared and insecure = her flying back to her safety zone-the cage.

 

If you want her to spend more time around you, and around the rest of the flock(family) consider getting a swing of some sort that hangs from the ceiling. It's higher up, and she would probably feel much more secure up there, and might be less apt to flying to her cage. Then again you clipping her wings would also tone down this habit of hers. If she knew she would just go straight down to the ground, she probably wouldn't try!

 

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Ronda477]

Again her wings are clipped. Do I clip more? She already has 5 feathers off of each wing. The breeder said I could go 2 more on each side just to follow her lines that she did, but the thing is too is that the breeder just had her on the counter and SweetHeart would let her trim her wing with no problem of course I can't do this. So any suggestions?

[BMustee]

I'm pretty sure I said this to you before but seeing as though your grey is dead set on flying even with the 5 cliped feathers, she will continue to try and fly with 7 cliped. My fear is that with 7 cliped she could drop like a rock and break her keel bone. It sounds like you have made a little progress with her...keep up the good work and she will come around on her time.

[danmcq]

Hi Ronda,

 

Everyone has already given great advice.

 

My only suggestion, since you mention that Sweetheart will pretty much stay on her stand now, would be to take the stand into the room you want to sit with her in and place it close to you. This would get her slowly more comfortable to being away from her cage and closer to you. You could try slowly offering treats to her while on her stand to get some interactions going with her while away from her safety net..The Cage.

 

In regards clipping more feathers. If she is able to fly fairly well, I would not clip more than one more feather on each side, following the same line your breeder began.

 

It sounds like your breeder did not clip the 5 feathers short enough to begin with. I assume you can see her clipped feathers showing out from underneath the major covert Feather line? Usually Feathers are trimmed back so that the cut end is just under the major coverts.

 

If she is just able to keep a level flight path and cannot gain altitude, the clip is probably sufficient. As Bmustee noted, you do not want her to drop like a rock. :-)

 

I know this must be painful for you, because you have so much love for Sweetheart and it is not yet being reciprocated, but it will come. :-)

 

Thanks for the update. Maybe it would help you a little more, if you posted questions more often. This would help you correct or change things in a more Real-Time manner and get the advice applied sooner. B)<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2007/11/12 14:37

[Christina]

I'm no expert, but what I did with Finnigan and he was a baby when I brought him home is I put his cage in the busiest section of the house, so he saw us ALL the time. If we were home, he was with us. I opened his cage, but did not necessarily take him out, it was his choice. I often sat by his cage in the evening. I like to read books, so I sat and read, not even necessarily out loud (sometimes, although my husband would make fun of me!haha), I read the paper there in the morning. I would sit quietly and offer him treats. The calmer I was, it seemed the more bold he became. He finally got the point that he would come to the edge for a scratch. He felt very secure in his cage but eventually started feeling secure to come out, go to the table, go to his stand, to other rooms, outside on the lanai and so forth. I guess my point is, why not let Sweetheart stay on her cage? She feels secure there, you guys go to her. I think she might come around faster if you let her feel like she is control. I did move Finnigans cage eventually to the bird room. So, even if you move Sweetheart to the main living area, you can move her back later to the spot where you want her to be, just take her there often as she begins to trust you and explore her new soroundings. I think this will lessen her "flights" and give her some added security. Anyway, that is just my suggestion.

[Ronda477]

Thanks Dan but I have followed everything I have read so far as keeping her right next to me. Her play stand is on the top of her cage and the only thing seperating us is a small coffee table than it's my chair I always sit it. She can see me very well from where she is at. She does come the my corner and sit there and stretch and fall asleep on one foot. I talk to her all the time. There is I would say only about 3 feet between her and I when she is either in her cage or on top of her cage using the play gym. We don't have a bird room where she is not with the family. We only have one living room and that's where she is where everything goes on. I have been writing every week to give updates but than again I have only had her for two weeks and if you remember this is the bird that had the flight from hell lol. So I have posted lol. Just didn't know what to really ask. She seems to be progressing a little just wish I could hold her. And for her to stay there. The breeder said she has never clipped more than 5 feathers off of her Greys. And no you can't see the feathers at all when her wing is down and against her body. So see she is just a stubborn bird isn't she lol.

 

Oh and Congrats to you Dan on moderator!

[siobha9]

Just a suggestion, but my greys like to play on the couch. Have you tried putting the blanket and toys at the opposite end of the couch while you sit on the other end? My new baby doesnt like me too close when he is out, and will fly away if he feels I have invaded his space. He will play happily at the opposite end of the couch, and then crawl over to me after an hour or so for a scratch.

 

He doesnt like the floor either, but I have dogs so I dont really allow him on the floor.

 

Just a thought.....

 

Siobhan

[Ronda477]

Thanks Christina but again I guess this is where our confusion is. WE DO leave her in with us 24 hours a day. We don't have a bird room, we don't have any other room she can go in. She is next to me the entire time and she does stay on her cage. The play top is on her cage. So this is where we have hit a brick wall. I have followed everything because I was on here for months before we got her and read and read and read on what we should do. She is clipped, she is in the same room, everyone goes up to her cage and talks to her, her door is left open to go in and out freely, I give her treats, she has plenty of toys. Can you see now why I'm lost? We have done everything and thought that after 2 weeks I would at least be able to hold her or set her on the chair with me but she won't. But than again I know patience is the key. After everything she went through getting here I'm sure she will come around but just wanted to see if there was anything I WASN'T doing lol. She had free flight at the breeders and was aloud to go anywhere she wanted, this is one problem I believe. But the flying off the cage has really gone down so I'm not too worried about that anymore. Just about what I should do to get her to trust me, if I'm already doing it and should I keep what I'm doing up? But want to thank everyone, I just seem to be hitting brick walls lately. It seems like I have followed everyone's advice, guess it will just take more time than 2 weeks to show anything towards us.

[Ronda477]

Thank you I will give that a try, we have dogs as well but I put them away in the evening when I put her on the floor. But haven't tried to couch. I have tried the chair and like you said maybe it's an invasion of her space. I will surely give it a try. Right now If someone told me to stand on my head in the corner and that would work I would be willing to do it lol. Thank you!

[loviechick]

Wow I didn't realize that she was cilpped, sounds like a strong flier! Mine both go straight to the floor. It's only been two weeks I would just keep doing what you're doing and building up the trust. I know you're excited to hold her, but for one they aren't really cuddly-wanna-hold-me kinda birds in the first place, and two, the honeymoon isn't even over yet. She's still getting used to her new surroundings. I know that mine adjusted fairly easily because of the fact that I'm gone during the day and I live alone, and only have the birds. You've got dogs, cats, and other people in the house, that's a BUNCH more things for her to get used to. The slower you go the better, just keep talking to her by her cage. If she wants to be on her cage, and is secure there, roll with it, that's only going to make her trust you more!

[Ronda477]

Thanks Loviechick. I will continue to just hang out next to her cage in my chair. Just can't wait for her to come around. And your probably right with all the other animals and stuff she has to get used to. Thought that the way the breeder did would've helped on that but guess not. The breeder had dogs and tons of other birds in the house that all had free roam. So thought she would be a little used to chaos lol.

[Tycos_mom]

Try taking her somewhere small like the bathroom and shut the door the toilet and the shower curtain and play one on one with her for 10 to 15 minates 2or3 times a day I will help her to bond and she won't be able to leave while your there do step-ups from one hand to the other over and over praise her give her treats sit with her and give her scriches and pet just you and her at first once she gains cofidence then start introducing her to other members of the family it just might be to much for her to soon

 

Pat

[spookyhurst]

Have you thought about clicker training? I've read success stories of using this technique with shy birds or cage bound birds. First, you have to teach her that a click means yummy treats. So when she's at her cage, do a few sessions of clicking and immediately following it with a favorite treat, like a sunflower seed or pine nut. You can break them in half to make them go further. Once she has learned that click = good things, it's time to start the training. You can do some trick training, like teaching her how to wave, as well as more practical things, like letting you trim her nails and stuff. It's a good bonding exercise that could bring you two closer together.

[loviechick]

This is just adding to what Tycos mom said....

 

When I first went to go and have my meetings with Red, who had been cage bound for 10 years hr first time out of that cage was to be with me. We were believe it or not, in the woman's bathroom. Well problem is, when she got spooked she took off flying hit the mirror, bounced off the sink, knocked over several bottles of lotion, and then for the finale, hit the floor. I would not suggest a bathroom as it is a very closed in space typically, and theres a lot of things she can run into, which will make her think ok pain in the bathroom with this new owner, new owner bad. You don't want her doing anything but associating good things with you. Now granted maybe Tycos mom has a huge bathroom with not very much stuff in it, but this particular woman had a lot of stuff in hers as I do mine, I'm not trying to step on any toes or anything:(

 

However a trick that is along these lines that I have personally used with Greys, along with other birds and it does work, is take them into another room, one that is s close to empty as you can get it. Turn down the lights, not dark, but maybe like at sunset kinda dark to where she can see, just not well lit. Take in plenty of treats, don't try to pet her or touch her or do anything to "cross the line" just let her wander around on the floor, or sit in your lap. Just make sure that whereever this is, she cannot see her cage aka her afety zone. You want her to learn that you are one of her safety zones! I would suggest doing it alone, as your whole family sitting around her trying to play and pet her, she probly thinks you want her for dinner LOL get her used to you and get her trusting SOMEONE before you go and get her warmed up to the rest of the family....

 

However this is just my opinion. I have tried this, and it does work. I've tried it with lovebirds, Greys, and my Senegal, and all of them turned out wonderfully after some time. Like I said you are still in the honeymoon phase to where everything is super new to her, don't worry that WILL subside. Building trust is like the foundation of a house, it needs to be solid in order to progress.

[Christina]

Well, I might suggest checking out this web-site.

http://www.anafricangrey.ca/

Alot of the people on here, have rehomes (I don't know if Sweetheart is a rehome or a new baby, traumatized by her flight to you) but either way, the trust process is probably the same...you will probably experience a shorter time frame if Sweetheart is a baby. They have some wonderful blogs of success stories and different ideas with some really hard cases.

[Ronda477]

Ok a little by little so far this week I have tried to get a little closer to her. Hasn't worked to well. We just hit our 3 week mark on Friday with her. She is starting to take food from my hand. I found she loves loves peanuts so I have gotten those for treats for her.

 

I tried taking her in a barely lit room. I brought her blanket that I cover her cage with and laid it on the bed, dimmed the lights and had her favorite snacks. Sounds like a nice little evening right? lol Well she didn't think so, she just kept going to the end of the bed and flying towards the light lol. I had it turned down very low. We have a dimmer switch in there and she still kept going at the light. She wouldn't pay attention to the peanuts. I tried talking to her and petting her a little and she would let me pet her if she came to me but she only did that to get a better height to fly off again towards the light lol. I guess I will just have to give it time. She growls at me when I go to get her off her stand if she knows it's not bed time yet. I have made her step up anyway. She will walk with me for a little bit on my shoulder but that makes me a little nervous being I know she doesn't trust me completely yet therefore I really don't trust her completely yet. When she's climbing my shirt to get to my shoulder I get to sneak in some petting her head and neck and some kisses. That doesn't seem to bother her. But again I guess it will just take some time. I have been giving her the peanuts just as a treat when she will come down to me or if I have to put her away and leave I give her a couple.

 

And no she isn't a re-home bird she is 6 months old and we bought her off a breeder. But she did have a very very very bad flight! So hoping being she is a baby she will come around. But thanks for the ideas. We will keep trying and I'll keep you all posted.

[danmcq]

Ah yes, go into the light :-)

 

In all seriousness, it does make sense that she does not feel comfortable in the darkness.

 

Atleast you gave it a shot!

 

It really does sound like this is going to be a little longer process than what you had been hoping for. She had never met you before and is having to adjust to a whole new world and flock.

 

She will come around, but at her own speed as her comfort and feeling of safety increases.