Feather Plucking/ Mutilation - Help please

[chigz]

Hi all,

 

I am new to the forum and would love to get some advice. My CAG recently starting plucking his feathers under both wings (last 5 months), it gradually got worse and led to self mutilation. We took him to an avian specialist who put a collar on him to stop him. Since then, the skin has healed and feathers have started to grow back even though there is still a blad patch under both wings. He gave us some medication to give him, Haliperidol. Before I started my CAG on the medication, I did do some research and I know many owners are against giving their parrots this mediciation. However I could see how miserable the collar was making him and so would like to give it a chance. He has just had the collar removed and the skin under his wings is starting to look sore again.

 

I know the medication is not a long term solution and would like to get some advice on where I can start. We have had Lucky for 14 years and this is the first time he is showing this condition. We think it could be due to the fact that we moved early last year but cant be sure. Any advice you could give me is most welcomed.

 

Many thanks

 

Chigz

[Luvparrots]

I give me greys lots of sunlight and outdoor time and so far I have been lucky and they are content and full feathered. Lots of talking to them. They are in the living room in front of the front room windows so have lots to see and hear even though I live alone.

[Dave007]

You're right in a few areas

 

1---I don't wanna scare you. First , this medication is a sedative. Second, when used in human therapeutic doses, it applies to psychotic conditions. In your situation, it was given as a sedative which won't help a bird permanently pick it's feathers. Look up the word in Google or SK.COM. Third, Collars aren't used very often for birds because it causes problems for birds as far as eating. It also won't cause a bird to permanently stop pick/pluck/chew feathers. Actually there are times when these devices can actually cause a bird to get more intense and irritated with the plucking when the these devices are removed. Ichiness, dryness which are common causes of plucking, pulling/chewing feathers. Many birds look just like your bird does when mutilation occurs. It can also come in the mating season. Yes, moving may have been the fault. It's hard for us to say. There's many reasons for this condition. The one possible solution is to have 2 items in the house. One is a spray that satutates the feathers and ESPECIALLY the skin. That item is called ALOE VERA JUICE. It's used as a spray. The second it is a non toxic gel which is used for bald spots, over preened feathers, cuts, bruices. It's called ALOE VERA GEL. Both can be purchased at pharmacies and both are inexpencive. People use the gel as a skin conditioner. It should be used every 2 days. The spray should be used all the time in a mister. In this health room, we have stickies above concerning both items.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/CopyofBothtypesofaloevera-1.jpg

Edited April 1, 2015 by Dave007

[Greywings]

Many causes of feather damage by the bird-hormonal, injury, yeast or bacteria on the skin, dry skin, food sensitivity, heavy metal poisoning, stress and boredom among others. The addition of the frequent baths in plain water or spray with Aloe juice often help a great deal. If it is caused by ingesting a piece of zinc or lead from a toy or some bad cage paint (cage made in China for example) or an overgrowth of bacteria or yeast then a vet would need to make the remedy and diagnosis. Hard to know exactly what occurred it may take some detective work. Do try hard not to stress about the plucking it will only increase his stress levels exacerbating the problem. You can also make sure he has lots of chewable things available.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Greywings

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I don't find any issue with your vets choices. The Haldol, will calm your bird. The collar, will prevent your bird from chewing his feathers. A QUICK fix. I believe the move, is 100% the cause of your birds issues! You have got to get your bird to love his new house! Try frequent tours with you guys room to room. If YOU love it, they will too... Try playing a game with family and your bird, one room a week! Sophie is game crazy... she LOVES games, and is quite competitive!... she now will go to every room in the house, and it is not an issue. All rooms have provided her with a great experience. Nancy

[katana600]

The aloe spray is pure, the gel has no alcohol, color or analgesics. They are soothing and have been helpful to many of us on the forum. What you have going for you is fourteen years of history with Lucky. You are very astute in realizing medication and a collar are short term for the acute phase of this feather damaging behavior. You are wise for being proactive and seeking out the advice of your avian specialist and suggestions from fellow grey companion humans. What started the behavior may be long gone and what perpetuates it is complex. You may try things and not see progress and come back to it at another time. Our avian vet recommended Rescue Remedy as a trial before stronger meds and it seemed to make a difference. The important thing is your relationship to Lucky and what works for your situation. Some have had luck with a sock buddy. I know its hard to see but take heart, this too shall pass.

[murfchck]

I am sorry this is happening. I have several pluckers but not any that have taken it further. I really do not have any advice other than to follow your heart, if the meds worry you then don't use them. Try the other suggestions first and use the meds as a very last resort. I have the aloe that Dave suggested and it has done wonders for my flock. It sooths the skins a lot and doesn't draw their attention to the area but you do have to be consistent, as I am sure you will be since you are here asking for advice. :-) I like the touring of the new home and making it fun idea, that goes a long way with these guys! Best of luck!

[Acappella]

Knock wood this isn't a problem I've had to deal with personally yet, but from the experiences of others on the forum I'd echo the aloe and the Rescue Remedy.

[chigz]

Many thanks for all your replies. I have had to put the collar back on as he started going at the skin again and causing harm. I will take the advice on the aloe gel and juice. We bought some juice but it looks like it have other preservatives in it so I wont be using that.

 

With regards to moving house, he hasn't really shown as signs of being unhappy, we've been here for a year now and he only started picking 7/8 months into the move. Anything I could look for to suggest he is unhappy? We have a open plan area and keep him there as we are usually there too.

 

We have bought him lots of new toys but he just doesnt seem to be interested in playing with any of them anymore.

[Acappella]

Maybe he's feeling too exposed? Is his cage up against at least one wall so he doesn't have to be vigilant from all directions all the time? Just throwing ideas out here.

[chigz]

Yes his back is always facing a wall. He tends to fly into my front room alot and sit on the window sill. I dont move his cage there as I don't use the room as much so dont want Lucky to be alone. Do you think I should give it a go?

[Dave007]

Many thanks for all your replies. I have had to put the collar back on as he started going at the skin again and causing harm. I will take the advice on the aloe gel and juice. We bought some juice but it looks like it have other preservatives in it so I wont be using that.

 

With regards to moving house, he hasn't really shown as signs of being unhappy, we've been here for a year now and he only started picking 7/8 months into the move. Anything I could look for to suggest he is unhappy? We have a open plan area and keep him there as we are usually there too.

 

We have bought him lots of new toys but he just doesnt seem to be interested in playing with any of them anymore.

 

Well, you're the frst person that's ever said that aloe juice has perserative which can possibly harm bird's skin. I intentinally posted picture of both items. If you look carefully, you'll see that both items say 100%. I don't know where you bought it and I don't know what kind you got. Both can be purchased in large supermarkets that have large pharmacutilc departmants such as walmart. They can also be purchase at pharmacies. Let me also tell you something about these products-----The 100% aloe juice is given to people by MDs who have serious digestive problems. That happens commonly. The 100% gel is used by people who have dry skin, bruises. cuts. That's also common and some people can actually go to the plant/flower store and purchase aloe plants. They use those plants by breaking off a small piece of a leaf and rubbing it on the bad areas. The gel sinks into the skin and the bird isn't even aware of it other than the area stops being irritated. Now as far as the collar, I never said that it was a quick fix. The bird took it's time to damage himself by hanking out feathers and it's gonna take time for the feathers to grow back in. Both of these items are for external use only. Both are no toxic. Many people here have decided to actually bathe their birds in the watered down aloe juice.

As far as the collar, you seem to have wanted a quick fix . It's only been a few days. Honestly, I never expected good results from that collar but I told you to make a choice. I told you that many times when a collar is removed, the bird will go after injured areas. People here will also tell you the same experiences about collars. This problem also occurs with dogs and cats. The big diffence is that collars are only used by vets because the dog has a serious injury and they don't want to let the dog pick on or lick it. It has to do with infections. Those collars are removed prickly as soon as the dog has healed.

[chigz]

Well, you're the frst person that's ever said that aloe juice has perserative which can possibly harm bird's skin. I intentinally posted picture of both items. If you look carefully, you'll see that both items say 100%. I don't know where you bought it and I don't know what kind you got. Both can be purchased in large supermarkets that have large pharmacutilc departmants such as walmart. They can also be purchase at pharmacies. Let me also tell you something about these products-----The 100% aloe juice is given to people by MDs who have serious digestive problems. That happens commonly. The 100% gel is used by people who have dry skin, bruises. cuts. That's also common and some people can actually go to the plant/flower store and purchase aloe plants. They use those plants by breaking off a small piece of a leaf and rubbing it on the bad areas. The gel sinks into the skin and the bird isn't even aware of it other than the area stops being irritated. Now as far as the collar, I never said that it was a quick fix. The bird took it's time to damage himself by hanking out feathers and it's gonna take time for the feathers to grow back in. Both of these items are for external use only. Both are no toxic. Many people here have decided to actually bathe their birds in the watered down aloe juice.

As far as the collar, you seem to have wanted a quick fix . It's only been a few days. Honestly, I never expected good results from that collar but I told you to make a choice. I told you that many times when a collar is removed, the bird will go after injured areas. People here will also tell you the same experiences about collars. This problem also occurs with dogs and cats. The big diffence is that collars are only used by vets because the dog has a serious injury and they don't want to let the dog pick on or lick it. It has to do with infections. Those collars are removed prickly as soon as the dog has healed.

 

Hi Dave,

 

Sorry I meant the one I purchased was the wrong one, not 100%, so I wont be using that one. Am going to try to source a 100% juice and gel.

 

I dont want a quick fix but my vet has said if he continues to pick at the skin he could get an infection or even worse nick a arteray. The first time it took about 2 months for the skin to fully heal. I will try to upload some pics. My vet gave me some Tamodine and Flamazine Silver to treat the infections the first time round.

 

I really dont want to keep the collar on, but within a week of taking it off, he reversed the 2 months of healing. Any suggestions on what I can do to stop him going at the skin?

 

Thank you

[Dave007]

I don't find any issue with your vets choices. The Haldol, will calm your bird. The collar, will prevent your bird from chewing his feathers. A QUICK fix. I believe the move, is 100% the cause of your birds issues! You have got to get your bird to love his new house! Try frequent tours with you guys room to room. If YOU love it, they will too... Try playing a game with family and your bird, one room a week! Sophie is game crazy... she LOVES games, and is quite competitive!... she now will go to every room in the house, and it is not an issue. All rooms have provided her with a great experience. Nancy

 

I'll say this nicely because you seem to have a problem in how I present things SO I'll try to be nice. I would appreciate it that you wouldn't tell people that prescription drugs that are used for people are fine for pets. The drug is an antipsychotic drug. I'm positive that you won't take any responsibity for a bird's bad reactions and that even includes an apology to a person who suffers a loss to their bird just by your advice. I've seen many drugs used on birds and some of those drugs are no longer on the market. I really don't care if you're a past or present nurse. I also have nurses in my family-----1 hospice and 1 pediatric and neigher would agree with a Md unless it was a proven fact. And, they deal with many mds that have different opinions

This is why the people here are told to visit other vets to get opinions.

***A QUICK fix****.. Collars are not quick fixes. They're commonly known as preventative devices and there's no proof that they actually do the job all the time. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

I hope this is nice enough.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Dave007

[Talon]

I have no experience with this, so my 2 cents worth don't mean much....although NEVER would I give any of my birds or animals antiphysotic drugs ever! There's always another safer solution.

[judygram]

Maybe he's feeling too exposed? Is his cage up against at least one wall so he doesn't have to be vigilant from all directions all the time? Just throwing ideas out here.

 

I think Marguerite was asking if one side of her cage is up against a wall. All of my bird's cages are against a wall as it gives them a little security knowing they only have to watch out for the other 3 sides. You would be surprised sometimes at how something so simple can be so important to a bird.

 

I have to agree with Dave on the subject of listing medications used on your bird, only a vet can prescribe those and none of us are vets.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

As dave's post, was allowed thru, I would appreciate my response, to be allowed. Nancy

[Greywings]

My question is did your vet do Skin swabs or scrapings? Did your Vet do any blood work or Radiographs (x-rays) before prescribing the meds?

[Talon]

As dave's post, was allowed thru, I would appreciate my response, to be allowed. Nancy

 

Don't know what your talking about...your posts are all here...we don't delete posts unless they are filled with foul language or are just plain insulting to another member by being off topic.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

My post was not an attack, and certainly foul language wasn't used.

I believe Haldol, which is used to treat birds with high anxiety disorder, AND prescribed by vets only, has proven to be effective in low doses for many birds. It is NOT the antipsychotic therapy that is sought by a vet, but the " side effect", of calming a bird. I am sooo happy Sophie doesn't stress about most anything, other than a shower, or Ollie peeing on her plastic under her cage. Nancy

[Talon]

Nancy, do not accuse us of deleting your posts...if it wasn't posted it may be a mistake on ur part not a deletion on ours.

[Acappella]

Nancy, I had a post disappear the other day after I hit the 'post quick reply' button. Maybe that's what happened to yours.

[Muse]

You're right in a few areas

 

1---I don't wanna scare you. First , this medication is a sedative. Second, when used in human therapeutic doses, it applies to psychotic conditions. In your situation, it was given as a sedative which won't help a bird permanently pick it's feathers. Look up the word in Google or SK.COM. Third, Collars aren't used very often for birds because it causes problems for birds as far as eating. It also won't cause a bird to permanently stop pick/pluck/chew feathers. Actually there are times when these devices can actually cause a bird to get more intense and irritated with the plucking when the these devices are removed. Ichiness, dryness which are common causes of plucking, pulling/chewing feathers. Many birds look just like your bird does when mutilation occurs. It can also come in the mating season. Yes, moving may have been the fault. It's hard for us to say. There's many reasons for this condition. The one possible solution is to have 2 items in the house. One is a spray that satutates the feathers and ESPECIALLY the skin. That item is called ALOE VERA JUICE. It's used as a spray. The second it is a non toxic gel which is used for bald spots, over preened feathers, cuts, bruices. It's called ALOE VERA GEL. Both can be purchased at pharmacies and both are inexpencive. People use the gel as a skin conditioner. It should be used every 2 days. The spray should be used all the time in a mister. In this health room, we have stickies above concerning both items.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/CopyofBothtypesofaloevera-1.jpg

 

 

Dave, with all due respect, as a former pscyh RN, haloperidol is not a sedative. While it does have a sedative EFFECT, it's an antipsychotic medication used to treat schizophrenia. It changes the chemical make up of the brain. It has very dangerous side effects in humans, some that can be fatal if not detected quickly. I am not sure I would be comfortable giving this to an animal. It can cause QT prolongation and Toursades de Pointes (literally "twisting of the points" of the EKG). In humans it is relatively easy to monitor cardiac status with a non-invasive EKG, however I am not sure how you would accomplish this in a bird. There is also the risk of NMS (neuroleptic malignant syndrome) in humans as well as blood dyscrasias such as leukopenia (decrease in white blood cells) and agranulocytosis (severe deficiency in WBCs). I am not a veterinarian, so I do not know how these effects translate in terms of avian medicine but this drug is not one to be taken lightly. I have seen serious adverse reactions in humans and in my opinion, it's a pretty serious risk.

[Muse]

I agree - see reasons in my previous reply to you.

 

There are SO many reasons for plucking. Drugging a bird to get them to stop is like putting a band-aid on hemorrhage. If the problem is anxiety, I believe that there are less risky options, for sure.

 

Haldol is still on the market for humans - because it's cheap. A high percentage of patients on Haldol are unable afford anything newer (safer). Sad fact.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Muse... thanks for your expertise! I don't like giving Haldol to humans.... NOT my favorite drug! I DO have two friends that are grey owners, and their birds are on low doses of Haldol, and do quite well! It was quite a surprise as us nurses really HATE the use of Haldol. Vets are using it more and more. I wish we had a vet on this site, that could explain why they have chosen this drug and why. Nancy