Elvenking Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 it is because his daddy cannot keep his hands off him. Uhhhhgg. I was reading many articles on plucking and one person was telling their story and they mentioned that all along they thought they were just loving their bird up when really, it was actually frustrating them sexually. When I read that, I was like....I am mega guilty! I am always cupping my hands around him and kissing him and cuddling him. Probably to the tune of him plucking his feathers. It makes the most sense because...when the only thing I do is love and care for this bird as much as I do, the only thing I could be doing wrong is too much of something. Well...given that....I am not sure if I have already done the damage....but I am going to be very hands off other than head scratches as Isaac's requests them. Thoughts anyone? Anyone ever over-cuddle their bird and have this experience? Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I'm pretty convinced that was the trigger w/Kura. She was the most cuddly bird I've ever met & it was mindless reflex half of the time. Even though I limited contact to head scratching, beak & feet rubs she still graduated to egg laying eventually. But she does limit her feather destruction to mating season. So, that's something, anyway.. If/when you back off w/Isaac, it might be good to move slowly & gradually toward your goal. Maybe start limiting where you pet him more than how much at first. He's gotten used to a level of physicality & he might develop new issues if you suddenly change that dynamic too much too fast. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvenking Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I'm pretty convinced that was the trigger w/Kura. She was the most cuddly bird I've ever met & it was mindless reflex half of the time. Even though I limited contact to head scratching, beak & feet rubs she still graduated to egg laying eventually. But she does limit her feather destruction to mating season. So, that's something, anyway.. If/when you back off w/Isaac, it might be good to move slowly & gradually toward your goal. Maybe start limiting where you pet him more than how much at first. He's gotten used to a level of physicality & he might develop new issues if you suddenly change that dynamic too much too fast. Good luck I think he will be okay with me backing off for a while. He still gets loads of attention and is probably okay with this. I'll keep watching him though. New pin feathers are coming in now too...so a good time to keep the baths coming and my hands off. He'll still get loads of head scratches. We'll watch him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaileysPapa Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 You are probably right. But, as Birdhouse has said, back off slowly so he doesn't feel rejected. Also, you should occasionally touch him all over to have him used to being touched, so when he goes to the vet, touching won't be a big issue. I can inspect all my birds, under wings, on feet, holding face, etc. But I do not do it often. Just now & then to keep them from becoming defensive when that kind of touching is needed. And, I know how you feel...I love my birds, and restricting our interaction, in any way, is difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvenking Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 You are probably right. But, as Birdhouse has said, back off slowly so he doesn't feel rejected. Also, you should occasionally touch him all over to have him used to being touched, so when he goes to the vet, touching won't be a big issue. I can inspect all my birds, under wings, on feet, holding face, etc. But I do not do it often. Just now & then to keep them from becoming defensive when that kind of touching is needed. And, I know how you feel...I love my birds, and restricting our interaction, in any way, is difficult. I hear ya. I'll keep it at an occasional, normal level. He seems totally happy with me not cuddling all over him though. He's happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Woo-hoo! Just knowing why is half of the battle and will lighten that load you have been carrying. Best wishes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Interesting thread will look for more comments and follow this one. I am caring for 2 Greys that are both heavily plucked-belly, legs, shoulders and the male has the top of head tonsure plucked. they came to me this way and the male has never been given any petting other than the top of his head and only at his invite as he is aggressive and bites not allowing that contact. He will only step up on a stick or perch but his room mate loves attention and again has only received head scratches which she solicits frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acappella Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I hope that this change will help Issac stop plucking, but please don't beat yourself up. If I had a bird that would allow that kind of contact I'd be very hard pressed not to give in to tons of cuddles. So, instead of a kiss, give him an almond for me. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRSeedBurners Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Just wondering what type of cuddling you were doing? I have a cuddler or more appropriately a rough-houser. She's not much for 'stroking' although petting her on the oil gland will get her preening in high gear. She's more the type that will climb up on me and throw her head back which is my queue to try and tickle her and see if I can get away without a bite. She's playing but she does bite hard at that point. She also likes to hang off the front of the monitor and expects me to grab her under the wings and bounce her through the air while she throws her head back. Also turn her upside down and 'shake the change' out of her pockets. Anything similar to that? Not sure what I would do if we couldn't have play time any longer. This thread has me worried now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaileysPapa Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Greywings...Are your birds a mated pair? Have they laid eggs ever? I ask because I know of several bonded pairs where the female will pluck the male to feather their nest. And one pair pluck each other, probably for the same reason. Plucking is a learned behavior, done for various reasons, and can become a habit. Some birds seem to get some kind of hormone or endorphin rush from it. I have cared for a number of pluckers. Many have overcome it, some did not. Plucking is difficult, though not impossible, to stop. I think it is more difficult for us to watch, than, perhaps, for them to do. Frequent baths, Aloe, shredding toys, preening toys, and limited sunshine, are all helpful. I say limited sunshine because Parrot skin was never meant to get direct sun, and they can get sunburn, which will aggravate the situation. But, a small amount, regularly, seems to be helpful. Of course, an Avian Vet's monitoring is necessary, as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Yes BP I am aware of all those factors these guys do not seem to be a mated pair they mostly ignore each other they are sharing a Macaw size cage here at our home but shared a smaller cage before they ended up here (temporary guests that have been here over a year now). they were already plucked prior to arrival and they have improved somewhat during their stay. Aloe baths could be more frequent as that seems to help the most, but it is cool by the big windows so limited until it warms up a bit. Cage is stuffed with things to shred, chew, climb and take apart and I have improved their diet as well they were big pellet birds, now fresher stuff for them. They are eventually going back to the "owner" so I can only do so much. Have had several pluckers and a mutilator or two through here so am always looking for new information on diet and behaviors. Right now we have a Cockatiel and a Senegal in the guest bathroom during their recovery from in the Tiel a wingectomy due to bone cancer and the Senegal manged to get a severe burn from a heat lamp after recovering from a beat down from his flock. Happy to tell you they are both doing very well, never a dull moment here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvenking Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Just wondering what type of cuddling you were doing? I have a cuddler or more appropriately a rough-houser. She's not much for 'stroking' although petting her on the oil gland will get her preening in high gear. She's more the type that will climb up on me and throw her head back which is my queue to try and tickle her and see if I can get away without a bite. She's playing but she does bite hard at that point. She also likes to hang off the front of the monitor and expects me to grab her under the wings and bounce her through the air while she throws her head back. Also turn her upside down and 'shake the change' out of her pockets. Anything similar to that? Not sure what I would do if we couldn't have play time any longer. This thread has me worried now... HAHAHHAHA..."Exactly.....what kind of cuddling WERE you doing with your bird sir?" Again, this is simply the best theory I have for him beginning his plucking and persisting it. However, it makes the most sense. I also think that this bird....REALLY loves me too. He knows he is super safe with me and lets me get away with anything. Mostly I am just always cupping his body and kissing his back as I pass him on the counter or somewhere else. Pretty much every time I see em...I almost have to go cuddle him. I guess I would pet the sides of his body too to rub his soft little bird body. Tons of kisses on the head, tummy, back, and beak...( I don't think the beak is a problem though...hopefully...cause I still do that a little.) I'd pet under his wings. It is funny I didn't really see exactly how touchy I was being. I was always super gentle though. Maybe he is plucking trying to say....NOOOOO...c'mon man...ease up. Anyway...he seems fine with the reduced handling. I still pick him up and kiss em on the beak sometimes and tell him what an awesome bird he is. Everything else is still the same with my energy around him..just less touching. There is no guarantee that he will leave himself alone...but we'll see. Either way, I don't want to give him the wrong idea. I wouldn't worry about games that they think are fun. I think Isaac views my contact as something much different. I think he thinks that we are "meant" for each other...and he is frustrated. It would explain why he is trying to mate with my face when I am on the phone, or feed me when I get out of the shower. Both of which have not happened since I have stopped the excessive cuddling. It's only been a few days...but I will keep ya posted. Edited March 11, 2015 by Elvenking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katana600 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Stephen, your willingness to step back and analyze, try new things and to help Isaac find his place in the world is heartwarming. I have faith that you will find the balance to help both of you find the right amount of attention, touching in the most effective ways and the way the seasons affect him. You are tuned in to your boy and are the best friend he could have. I admire your willingness to look at the big picture and to try new things, eliminate old things and to determine how to help Isaac. I enjoy all your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Isaac is one of my favorite greys to hear about and learn what is going on in his life. I have gotten into the habit of telling my parrots what I am doing at a certain time or where I am going. It seems to calm them and let them know that I will be back come hell or high water. Our greys are so attuned to us and we have to remember that we are their flock and they expect certain things from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chezron Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Good luck with that. I think you are incredibly lucky to have such a sweet bird. I got bit in the face today (first time and I am shocked) so I see a lot of value in a sweet bird, as mine is on my naughty list right now. He didn't get sun today because it was SO hot! Isaac seems like such a sweety maybe concentrate on how lucky you both are to have found each other. Today, I am reminded that they really are wild animals and we cannot possibly know what they are experiencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Elvenking...I think, if you deprive Issac of love, and normal affection, it won't go well. Love your baby... dont worry about the sexual aggression. Sophie LOVES ryan and Seans feet. When they sleep... she does a mating dance! We are aware.... and it doesnt change anythimg Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvenking Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Stephen, your willingness to step back and analyze, try new things and to help Isaac find his place in the world is heartwarming. I have faith that you will find the balance to help both of you find the right amount of attention, touching in the most effective ways and the way the seasons affect him. You are tuned in to your boy and are the best friend he could have. I admire your willingness to look at the big picture and to try new things, eliminate old things and to determine how to help Isaac. I enjoy all your posts. Thanks for such sweet words. I really do love him more than most anything. He is a primary concern in my life and I always want to see him have the best life possible. I am getting cautiously excited again as brand new pins are popping out all over his body and he hasn't messed with any of em yet. So far he seems to be set up for success. Another great thing I finally found is something that he continuously likes to play with in his cage now. I had been struggling for a while to find something he likes to play with during the day when I am gone. Plastic water bottles. I crush one and jam it in between the bars and oh does he LOVE to chew that thing and make noises with it all the time. I come home to mutilated bottles and it's exciting, because he will choose those over his feathers now. He is really doing good and I love him with all my heart. This is the time I really have to watch myself, cause the cuter he gets, the more I want to grab him and hold him and kiss him excessively, but I am doing good. He still gets all of the attention, head scratches and love a bird should get, just without the overwhelming smothering I was doing before. I know there seems to be some concern expressed for the sudden reduction in contact with Isaac, but I wouldn't be alarmed. You just have to know that what I was doing before was quite over the top and needed to be toned down. Isaac seems even more happier now, I am watching him closely. He still gets a few smooches and lots of love. He was on my shoulder last night asking for and getting all the head scratches he has ever wanted. He is totally happy. So not to worry. I would never let my baby feel anything other than loved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvenking Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Isaac is one of my favorite greys to hear about and learn what is going on in his life. I have gotten into the habit of telling my parrots what I am doing at a certain time or where I am going. It seems to calm them and let them know that I will be back come hell or high water. Our greys are so attuned to us and we have to remember that we are their flock and they expect certain things from us. Thanks for following the chronicles of me and my little grey friend. I am so tuned to my little guy and what he expects...lol...I break myself and become a better person all the time. Take today for instance. I knew I had to go somewhere after 7 tonight...and I usually come home from work at 6 to stay with him all night. So I had to leave work a little early to come home and spend some time with my boy. I tell the guy who was going to pick me up that I would meet him there for another extra 15 minutes home with my birds before. Making a total of 65 minutes with my bird till I can get back at 8:30 and give him more of my time. If I couldn't get that, then someone would be getting disappointed...but never my bird. Not a chance. We love our greys! Edited March 17, 2015 by Elvenking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvenking Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 A little update. So far....not so much as a tweaked feather. No plucked feathers. I am pretty proud of us. I have resisted cuddling his cute little ass too much and kept our contact still loving, just not so much physical contact and no cupping his body and burying kisses into his back. Honestly...I am not sure he liked it as much as I did. He is such a cute little being though. I love him so much. He is only preening like normal now and he hasn't barbed a single feather. Go boy...GO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Fantastic news! Go Issac!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inara Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Stephen, YAY!! What positive news, and what a good example you have been for us all. Your refusal to give up looking for clues as to why your precious Isaac was plucking, is sure paying off. Sounds like the two of you have found a great balance now of affection without over stimulation. I could just kiss you both (but not *too* much! haha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I hope it works! Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbersmom Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 That's great news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Woo-hoo! Happy hugs all around! Way to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I wish you both continued success!:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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