Lighting question

[phangtonpower]

I'm going to be using a 26w reptisun cfl style light as that's all that is available in Japan. I've read on this forum that the manufacture says that they are the same as the Aviansun. Since they don't sell the hood here I'm going to have to either buy something or make something.

 

My question is would it be better to have the light horizontal like the zoomed hood or vertical? Does it matter?

 

Vertical hoods are a lot easier to find. Haven't seen any horizontal hoods, so I'd probably have to make it.

 

And last I'm going to be using polycarbonate on top of the cage for winter care, as suggested by the fine members here. I found 2mm clear sheets. Would this have any affect on the UVB and UVA?

[Greywings]

Natural unfiltered Sunlight is the best choice. If not able to provide such then do read this it may help, remeber the output on these expensive lights is not a peak for very long and need replacement more than you might think.

Copy & paste to read.

http://buffalobirdnerd.com/clients/8963/documents/UVB_Lighting_for_Companion_Birds_and_Reptiles.pdf

 

http://www.holisticbird.org/pages/elighting.htm

Edited October 21, 2014 by Greywings

[phangtonpower]

Thank you Greywings for the links. So from my understanding the polycarbonate cover will filter some light. Well winter is coming and I don't really have a choice but I will be using the light all year around as my house is well shaded. I will be removing the cover when it does get warmer though. I do take my bird out when the weather is good on a harness to try and give him some sun.

 

I emailed zoomed as well but they didn't really answer any questions. They didn't actually say that the reptisun and aviansun are the same thing. Just that they have the same ratio of UVB/UVA. They also said that they haven't tested their light with other hoods, vertical or horizontal, except for the one they sell so couldn't say if one was better to other. They don't sell the hood here and is a little expensive to begin with.

 

I guess what I really want to know now is if a horizontal or vertical hood would be better?

Edited October 22, 2014 by phangtonpower

[SRSeedBurners]

My guess is a horizontal hood is better placed above the bird. That's what you typically see people doing.

[Dave007]

I can see that you've been doing a lot of investigating concerning different things concerning your new bird and that's great but there's another area that you don't know about because it's not covered in books or videos. That has to do with what you don't need to neccessially need to worry about.

Thousands of people who own greys and other parrots don't have avian bulbs for their birds simply because they're not as important as you think. If you look up places and businesses who deal with different bird items, you don't expect them to tell you that you don't need them, right?? They're in the business of selling products. Situations vary. There's no absolute yes or no answer to certain things. Lighting is one of them and I see that you are worrying. What would happen if you're not able to get avian lighting??? You think your bird will suffer??

By the way, Repisun has nothing to do with birds. The spectrum is totally different. Reptisum is for snakes and the whole variety of reptiles that are available for sale. Reptisun also provides heat for reptiles. Reptiles stay away from sunlight for at least 75% of the day. They're cold blooded and only need heat when their core temperature drops and also for incubating eggs. Avian lighting doesn't. Birds aren't cold blooded but they also stay out of the sun for 60% of their day. That's why people who are building outdoor aviaries are told to provide a shady area for their birds. Parrots will stay in that shady area much more than the sunny areas in the aviary. Too much sun causes serious problems for all wild birds ( greys and all other parrots are wild animals even if a person owns them). They will always remain wild.

Understand something---I'm only posting this so that you realize that you can have a healthy bird even if you don't provide everything because everything may not be available. Basically, you can do what you want but also remember that everything doesn't need to be perfect.

 

PS--Concerning avian lighting/ positioning----if any avian lighting which will be put near a cage ideally should be put above the cage because if a light is placed on the side and the bird's face/eyes are constantly exposed to the light, there's a chance that the lighting could cause cataracts or even blindness. Prarrots don't constantly stare at things that are above them.

 

 

**********My question is would it be better to have the light horizontal like the zoomed hood or vertical? Does it matter?

Vertical hoods are a lot easier to find. Haven't seen any horizontal hoods, so I'd probably have to make it. *********

Simple aquarium hoods can be used. They come in all different sizes.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Dave007

[phangtonpower]

I can see that you've been doing a lot of investigating concerning different things concerning your new bird and that's great but there's another area that you don't know about because it's not covered in books or videos. That has to do with what you don't need to neccessially need to worry about.

Thousands of people who own greys and other parrots don't have avian bulbs for their birds simply because they're not as important as you think. If you look up places and businesses who deal with different bird items, you don't expect them to tell you that you don't need them, right?? They're in the business of selling products. Situations vary. There's no absolute yes or no answer to certain things. Lighting is one of them and I see that you are worrying. What would happen if you're not able to get avian lighting??? You think your bird will suffer??

By the way, Repisun has nothing to do with birds. The spectrum is totally different. Reptisum is for snakes and the whole variety of reptiles that are available for sale. Reptisun also provides heat for reptiles. Reptiles stay away from sunlight for at least 75% of the day. They're cold blooded and only need heat when their core temperature drops and also for incubating eggs. Avian lighting doesn't. Birds aren't cold blooded but they also stay out of the sun for 60% of their day. That's why people who are building outdoor aviaries are told to provide a shady area for their birds. Parrots will stay in that shady area much more than the sunny areas in the aviary. Too much sun causes serious problems for all wild birds ( greys and all other parrots are wild animals even if a person owns them). They will always remain wild.

Understand something---I'm only posting this so that you realize that you can have a healthy bird even if you don't provide everything because everything may not be available. Basically, you can do what you want but also remember that everything doesn't need to be perfect.

 

PS--Concerning avian lighting/ positioning----if any avian lighting which will be put near a cage ideally should be put above the cage because if a light is placed on the side and the bird's face/eyes are constantly exposed to the light, there's a chance that the lighting could cause cataracts or even blindness. Prarrots don't constantly stare at things that are above them.

 

 

**********My question is would it be better to have the light horizontal like the zoomed hood or vertical? Does it matter?

Vertical hoods are a lot easier to find. Haven't seen any horizontal hoods, so I'd probably have to make it. *********

Simple aquarium hoods can be used. They come in all different sizes.

 

Thanks for the advice Dave. The area that our bird is in is very shaded, so can get really dark. She's placed right next to sliding glass doors so she could look outside, but I live next to a mountain. Most of the window is covered by a big wall that prevent mud slides. The other quarter is a shrine with lots of tall trees. I heard they do a sumo neighborhood sumo tournament once a year, so she gets a perfect view of that. The ceilings are kinda low. I can't go all out and buy T5/T8 lighting for now as money is tight. Plus we pretty much only have panasonic and national brands here, so I can't find anything people suggest here anyway and they don't like to label specs for lighting here.

 

So that brings me down to CFLs. Those are not labeled as well and are about the same price as pet specific lighting, but even with pet lighting is very minimal. Pretty much the reptisun was the only light that I can find that is recommended here. I know we aren't supposed to use reptile lighting for birds, but since the manufacture claims that they are at least similar that it can be used. Plus the Distance that we are supposed to use these lights for, I don't think the heat would have any affect. Don't know yet as I haven't bought one.

 

Anyway it seems that horizontal is the way to go

[SRSeedBurners]

There is a post on here, or one of the other avian forums I'm on, about their bird getting a burn in their eyes from using a reptile light - so be careful with that. I think it started out with the bird exhibiting irritation and turned out to be the light.

[phangtonpower]

Well the rep from zoomed pretty much said there is no difference between the aviansun and reptisun. She said it doesn't produce heat and is only a uvb bulb at 5% and the spectrum is the same. Very helpful.

[Dave007]

I can't go all out and buy T5/T8 lighting for now as money is tight. Plus we pretty much only have panasonic and national brands here, so I can't find anything people suggest here anyway and they don't like to label specs for lighting here.

 

I think you're misunderstanding me concerning aquarium hoods. I never said anything about buying T5 or T8 bulbs. I only said to use the hoods that the aquarium bulbs are placed in. They're cheap and some pet shops actually sell them used. Many people who have aquariums may decide that they want either a larger tank or a smaller tank so the hoods are different sizes. The end sizes ( either end) are the same as avian bulbs so they can fit into those different size hoods.

I breed angel fish---I have a 5 gal tank for the fry to hatch in. I have a 20 gal tank so the fry can grow in. I have a 55 gal tank which is a community tank. I have loads of old tank hoods from different sized tanks. If I knew you, I would give you one.

 

I really don't care about that person who said reptile bulbs are the same as avian bulbs. That's the wrong info. The spectrum from reptile bulbs is basically red/blue which also gives off heat. In order for reptiles to successfully live, they need that red spectrum lighting. The brightness from Avian bulbs are full spectrum ( many shades of light invisible to us.) They don't give off heat. Avian bulbs help to produce Vitamin D3. The lighting from rptile bulbs is very low.

Many people who don't have access to avian bulbs simply use flourscent bulbs for brightness. Many parrot breeders who produce a large amount of chicks for sale don't have avian lighting in the large rooms where the chicks are on display for sale. Just flourscent lighting from places like Home Depot or Lowes or Ace Hardware or other large places/centers that deal in home improvement.

If you come to this board, you should expect all the great people here to give you proper info concerning the welfare of your bird. They have long term experience obtained from trial and error.

I'll say it again----don't use reptile lighting. Either use avian bulbs or regular flourscent bulbs.

 

******** I don't think the heat would have any affect. ****

Maybe not but it will affect their eyes.

[phangtonpower]

I think you're misunderstanding me concerning aquarium hoods. I never said anything about buying T5 or T8 bulbs. I only said to use the hoods that the aquarium bulbs are placed in. They're cheap and some pet shops actually sell them used. Many people who have aquariums may decide that they want either a larger tank or a smaller tank so the hoods are different sizes. The end sizes ( either end) are the same as avian bulbs so they can fit into those different size hoods.

I breed angel fish---I have a 5 gal tank for the fry to hatch in. I have a 20 gal tank so the fry can grow in. I have a 55 gal tank which is a community tank. I have loads of old tank hoods from different sized tanks. If I knew you, I would give you one.

 

I really don't care about that person who said reptile bulbs are the same as avian bulbs. That's the wrong info. The spectrum from reptile bulbs is basically red/blue which also gives off heat. In order for reptiles to successfully live, they need that red spectrum lighting. The brightness from Avian bulbs are full spectrum ( many shades of light invisible to us.) They don't give off heat. Avian bulbs help to produce Vitamin D3. The lighting from rptile bulbs is very low.

Many people who don't have access to avian bulbs simply use flourscent bulbs for brightness. Many parrot breeders who produce a large amount of chicks for sale don't have avian lighting in the large rooms where the chicks are on display for sale. Just flourscent lighting from places like Home Depot or Lowes or Ace Hardware or other large places/centers that deal in home improvement.

If you come to this board, you should expect all the great people here to give you proper info concerning the welfare of your bird. They have long term experience obtained from trial and error.

I'll say it again----don't use reptile lighting. Either use avian bulbs or regular flourscent bulbs.

 

******** I don't think the heat would have any affect. ****

Maybe not but it will affect their eyes.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I only mention the T5/T8 fixtures as options that I don't want to go through I know the light hoods you are talking about. I have a planted aquarium, so i did plenty of research for what we have in Japan. They usually don't sell CFL type hoods bigger than a 13w CFL.

 

Pretty much you scared me off buying the Reptisun. I did ask the zoomed representative again about the spectrum and if there was any difference between the two and she said they are the same just rebranded.

 

So does that mean that aviansuns should be avoided since they are the same CFL?

 

Like I said they don't label lights here except for cool/warm etc. No other info like spectrum or lumens, so I'm worried that a buy a bulb that flickers and makes the birds go nuts?

[Dave007]

Thanks for the info. I only mention the T5/T8 fixtures as options that I don't want to go through I know the light hoods you are talking about. I have a planted aquarium, so i did plenty of research for what we have in Japan. They usually don't sell CFL type hoods bigger than a 13w CFL.

 

Pretty much you scared me off buying the Reptisun. I did ask the zoomed representative again about the spectrum and if there was any difference between the two and she said they are the same just rebranded.

 

So does that mean that aviansuns should be avoided since they are the same CFL?

 

Like I said they don't label lights here except for cool/warm etc. No other info like spectrum or lumens, so I'm worried that a buy a bulb that flickers and makes the birds go nuts?

 

 

I,m glad that you changed your mind about reptile bulbs. What type to get? Any bulb that has the word *avian* ( on the box or bulb ) can be used. If there are no bird bulbs available, the next best thing is any regular flourscent bulb. They come inthe screw in style or tube style . The one you want to avoid is the incandescent bulb for house use. Even in fish tanks, incandescent tank bulbs can't be trusted because they give out too much heat for a fish tank. Many fish die because of the heat from those bulbs. Even some plants die from those bulbs. Succulents, hybrid aloes, miniature orchid, certain types of hybrid bonsai, certain types of hybrid cacti. Many people switch to flourscent lighting. Most of those plants need to go into hibernation. Too much heat doesn't allow that to happen.

 

Samples of bird bulbs on AMAZON

 

http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Aviansun-Compact-Fluorescent/dp/B000KH9S88/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414171987&sr=8-1&keywords=avian+bulb

 

http://www.amazon.com/FeatherBrite-15-Watt-Full-Spectrum-Bulb/dp/B0002JOYMO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1414171987&sr=8-2&keywords=avian+bulb

[Muse]

Well the rep from zoomed pretty much said there is no difference between the aviansun and reptisun. She said it doesn't produce heat and is only a uvb bulb at 5% and the spectrum is the same. Very helpful.

 

I do remember back when I had a boa, the UV light did not produce heat, I had to have a second "basking" bulb for that. The full spectrum UV was a long tube and the basking bulb was in one of those 'clamp lamp' fixtures. He didn't really need either as he was out of the cage most of the time and he 'basked' in the water bed. >.<

[phangtonpower]

I,m glad that you changed your mind about reptile bulbs. What type to get? Any bulb that has the word *avian* ( on the box or bulb ) can be used. If there are no bird bulbs available, the next best thing is any regular flourscent bulb. They come inthe screw in style or tube style . The one you want to avoid is the incandescent bulb for house use. Even in fish tanks, incandescent tank bulbs can't be trusted because they give out too much heat for a fish tank. Many fish die because of the heat from those bulbs. Even some plants die from those bulbs. Succulents, hybrid aloes, miniature orchid, certain types of hybrid bonsai, certain types of hybrid cacti. Many people switch to flourscent lighting. Most of those plants need to go into hibernation. Too much heat doesn't allow that to happen.

 

Samples of bird bulbs on AMAZON

 

http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Aviansun-Compact-Fluorescent/dp/B000KH9S88/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414171987&sr=8-1&keywords=avian+bulb

 

http://www.amazon.com/FeatherBrite-15-Watt-Full-Spectrum-Bulb/dp/B0002JOYMO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1414171987&sr=8-2&keywords=avian+bulb

 

Like I said I have a planted tank and know not to use incandescent bulbs. I live in Japan and do not have options for anything specific for birds.

 

Your first link is for the Aviansun, which the is the same as the reptisun according to the manufacturer. Confused ><

 

Edit: So I did more research on the aviansun. This is what one article mentioned about the color temp. "As stated earlier, ZooMed does not provide information online, but other internet sources say that the Avian Sun light is 88 CRI, 7500K, no word on UVA, and 5% UVB"

 

 

And here is a quote from one of the links greywings posted. ".....while higher color temperatures (more blue) have been shown to produce more stress and feather destruction. For tropical birds, look for a light that has a temperature of at least 5000º K and

not more than 5700º K"

 

Maybe the aviansuns should be avoided as well since the color temperature is higher than recommended.

Edited October 25, 2014 by phangtonpower