Anyone in the St. Louis Area?

[Muse]

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/pet/4678697592.html

 

This person really seems like they want the best for the bird, but CL is really *not* the place to be advertising. Anyone in that area or is there anyone that has any connections there?

[Inara]

Breaks my heart. Jazzy is going to be so sad and confused. Yes, jobs change, life changes, but I am going to be blunt. If people have time to watch TV, or play video games, or whatthefrak ever, they still have time for the companions that they originally committed to. I've been there. I was a true single mother (no husband, no shared custody, no child support, no weekend visits, no nada). I had my kid and my birds, and my dog. I rented, and always found places that would accept all of us. I worked full time, and then went to school full time on top of it all.

 

Not that I'm a martyr, I'm saying this because we *make* time for the things in our lives that are important to us and the "I just don't have the time [insert animal type here] deserves is a cop-out and a way to simply make one's life easier. Children and animals are very resilient, more so that we give them credit for. Despite full time school, raising a kid, and sometimes working more than one job because call me crazy, I prefer to live indoors and eat regularly, I still had time to walk my dog, do homework with, cook for, watch baseball games and hockey with my kid, *and* spend plenty of time with my birds who outlived two long lived dogs.

 

I rant at this kind of thing because there is a pervasive attitude these days that the slightest effort or inconvenience means "downsize the non-humans" in the house. Imagine the outcry if someone advertised their human kids on Craigslist or in the paper?

 

10 year old kid to good home. Housebroken, does eat a lot, not too noisy but does whine a few times a day. Gets good grades in school, fenced yard not required. We only want a good home for him. He's been with us for 10 years, and doesn't bite. We're asking a rehoming fee because want to make sure he goes to a good new home. It breaks our heart to let him go, but we just don't have the time that he deserves and the neighbors have complained about the screeching (mine, when he refuses to do what I say). Only seriously interested people respond.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Inara

[Muse]

Craigslist tears me up. I hate going there. Every time I see one of those posts it makes me want to throttle the person. And the REALLY sad part is, most aren't worried about the "rehome fee to insure good home" actually MEANING a good home. They are selling the animal, plain and simple. A friend just rescued a poor macaw kept in an unprotected cage on a back patio for $500 -- NO CAGE. The woman even stated "I'm not losing money on this." So no, that rehoming fee isn't to "insure a good home" it is to keep the ad from getting flagged off Craigslist as an animal sale (which it really is). I pray these peoples' karma comes back to them tenfold.

[Inara]

I know, right? Inara's "rehoming" fee was $1200.00 which included a beat up cage. We gladly paid it, as I fell in love with her, and had we bought a baby from the same breeder that the people got her from we would have paid 1k+ and then a new cage on top of that, plus DNA sexing. But then we followed up by getting her a new stainless steel cage a couple months after we got her, as well as a trip to the avian vet for a full check up. The people were just selling her, plain and simple. We could have picked up one of any 4 CAGS that were on CL at the time, and/or one of 3 that were being rehomed at the bird store, all for about $600 each, but Inara chose me and I chose her and that was that. Plus, I wasn't looking for a 'bargain' bird. Wanted to adopt one, and was willing and prepared to pay a full retail price if necessary. So many people, just shop for the least expensive bird on CL or in the newspaper ads, and give little thought to whether or not the bird is a good match for them, etc.

 

To this day, I'm still so relieved. I can't imagine what might have happened to her if an inexperienced or unethical person had picked her up. My thought is that her price stopped most people cold. To me, she's priceless.

 

A week rarely goes by when there is not at least 1 Grey or more on the various CO CLs.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Inara

[Dave007]

Maybe some people here should study *wild animals* such as greys who can also be pets. After years of dealing with greys of all ages, sizes, personalities, living conditions, it's found that greys are very adaptable to other new homes, environments, new owners, living conditions. They do extremely well. After all, what about all the adoptable adult birds? It seems like maybe they're pretty happy and contented

There's loads of people out there that shouldn't own baby birds, adolescent birds or adult birds but unfortunately they do and when other experienced bird owners need to advertise that they need to rehome their birds, the first thing that happens is an attack on the person who's doing the rehoming. No one knows what's going on in other people's lives and their personal situations. Many times, people decide that it's all right to be *over judgmental* even though they don't know all the facts and figures that are existing.

Concerning Jazzyboy, No one really can tell if Jazzy is gonna be sad and confused.

 

******* Imagine the outcry if someone advertised their human kids on Craigslist or in the paper? ******

 

Hmmm, it sounds like a wonderful idea to me.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Dave007

[Inara]

OK, yes I admit to being really judgemental about people dumping their birds simply because they no longer have time for them. I am also one who repeatedly says that birds and kids are a lot more adaptable and resilient than we give them credit for. Inara never looked back for an instant when she came to live with us, and you have made a good point that Jazzy will likely be just fine ...providing he gets a home with someone who won't just redump him and on and on.

 

The "forever home" is often a lovely myth because yes humans age, we get catastophic illnesses, but I will always stand firm on "I just don't have the time any more," or "Now we have a baby," etc type of excuses are irksome and they should proably not have had the bird in the first place and often are simply code for ,I really was clueless about what it takes to live with an animal that is not domesticated."

 

Traveling a lot for a job could have an effect both economically as well as on care being available, but I can' t help but think if it was her kid that she'd find another solution.

 

I'm judgy.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Inara

[Muse]

Maybe some people here should study *wild animals* such as greys who can also be pets. After years of dealing with greys of all ages, sizes, personalities, living conditions, it's found that greys are very adaptable to other new homes, environments, new owners, living conditions. They do extremely well. After all, what about all the adoptable adult birds? It seems like maybe they're pretty happy and contented

There's loads of people out there that shouldn't own baby birds, adolescent birds or adult birds but unfortunately they do and when other experienced bird owners need to advertise that they need to rehome their birds, the first thing that happens is an attack on the person who's doing the rehoming. No one knows what's going on in other people's lives and their personal situations. Many times, people decide that it's all right to be *over judgmental* even though they don't know all the facts and figures that are existing.

Concerning Jazzyboy, No one really can tell if Jazzy is gonna be sad and confused.

 

******* Imagine the outcry if someone advertised their human kids on Craigslist or in the paper? ******

 

Hmmm, it sounds like a wonderful idea to me.

 

Actually, I've seen a lot that don't do so well. I think it depends on how bonded they were the previous owners. I saw an entire flock of birds spiral into all kinds of depressive and self-destructive behaviors when their owner died suddenly of a burst aneurysm right in front of them. Birds can suffer trauma and it does affect their mental health, as it would any intelligent being.

 

I agree there are some people who might have extenuating circumstances. But sadly, a large percentage of rescued birds are simply given up because they've become inconvenient. Here's a good example from a very quick trolling of our local Craigslist:

 

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/for/4616612135.html " I am selling because i got a 4 month old Senegal parrot" (aka "I found something bigger and more showy so I am dumping this 'amazing' cockatiel like yesterday's trash")

 

http://fayetteville.craigslist.org/for/4675967143.html "not no cheap bird" and "$1000 firm" (doesn't give a 'why' just a 'firm' sale price as if the bird were a car or an antique dresser.)

 

http://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/for/4643253302.html Love these kind - "My daughter has only had him a month and she has decided she doesn't want him anymore." Way to teach your kids about responsibility and commitment. (We have FOUR birds here at our rescue for that exact reason but with one the "daughter" in question was a toddler.....Shaking my head at that one. Yeah. That poor bird has serious issues.)

 

This has nothing do with being judgmental. It's facts, plain and simple. This isn't a case of hardship. It's a case of lack of commitment. It doesn't take judgment to see that. I am sorry Dave, but we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. With over thirty years of hearing the same excuses when rescuing dogs and cats it only points to one thing - people who can make excuses for their behavior will do whatever they please, regardless of how ethical it is.

 

Even more sad are the ones who mistreat animals but still hold them for 'ransom' - (like that "firm" $1000). That just flat-out disgusts me. I watched a macaw get sold this week on CL - thankfully to a group of rescuers who pooled together to pay the 'ransom'. This bird was in a filthy cage with no toys, outdoors on a patio with no shelter, plucked, the woman 'rehoming' (aka selling him for $500 WITHOUT the nasty cage) claimed she didn't "have time for him" and felt sorry for him but wouldn't budge on the price. She stated "If I can't sell it I will just keep it because I am not losing money on this." If you consider this judgmental, that is your opinion and you have a right to it. I consider it calling a spade a spade because it's not going to turn into a heart or a diamond no matter how many times you flip it over.

[Muse]

I agree. Though I can even understand job changes, etc. It's the ones who just got tired of the bird, the newness wore off, they don't like the mess, the poop, the noise, and they want to dump the bird while making back the money they spent on it. Those are the ones that make me grit my teeth. And it's funny, you talk to some of these people, and they tell you they have season tickets to ball games, or a cabin at the beach where they go on the weekends, etc, etc, but they 'just don't have time anymore' for the bird/cat/dog/other pet.

 

Sadly, Jazzy's changes of finding a really good home are not too great on CL. A lot of 'flippers' troll CL looking for profits to be made. I've seen quite a few rescues who have been CL pets, and some were CL pets more than once or twice. Sold and resold like used furniture. And it makes me sad.

[Acappella]

I never look at Craig's list ads or go into a pet store with live animals anymore. My budget won't allow another animal right now, and my heart can't stop thinking about any animal I see or hear about that needs help. I hope that this poor little soul ends up in a good home that will deal kindly with any issues his re-homing will bring out in him.

[SRSeedBurners]

We had an CL ad relayed just a couple days ago here on our DFW parrots about someone wanting to rehome their B&G as they have "a new baby is coming in the family". Of course I couldn't resist responding to the ad and offering to get rid of the baby for them. No response received

 

I'm unapologetically parrot-centric.

 

[Dave007]

Actually, I've seen a lot that don't do so well. I think it depends on how bonded they were the previous owners. I saw an entire flock of birds spiral into all kinds of depressive and self-destructive behaviors when their owner died suddenly of a burst aneurysm right in front of them. Birds can suffer trauma and it does affect their mental health, as it would any intelligent being.

 

I agree there are some people who might have extenuating circumstances. But sadly, a large percentage of rescued birds are simply given up because they've become inconvenient. Here's a good example from a very quick trolling of our local Craigslist:

 

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/for/4616612135.html " I am selling because i got a 4 month old Senegal parrot" (aka "I found something bigger and more showy so I am dumping this 'amazing' cockatiel like yesterday's trash")

 

http://fayetteville.craigslist.org/for/4675967143.html "not no cheap bird" and "$1000 firm" (doesn't give a 'why' just a 'firm' sale price as if the bird were a car or an antique dresser.)

 

http://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/for/4643253302.html Love these kind - "My daughter has only had him a month and she has decided she doesn't want him anymore." Way to teach your kids about responsibility and commitment. (We have FOUR birds here at our rescue for that exact reason but with one the "daughter" in question was a toddler.....Shaking my head at that one. Yeah. That poor bird has serious issues.)

 

This has nothing do with being judgmental. It's facts, plain and simple. This isn't a case of hardship. It's a case of lack of commitment. It doesn't take judgment to see that. I am sorry Dave, but we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. With over thirty years of hearing the same excuses when rescuing dogs and cats it only points to one thing - people who can make excuses for their behavior will do whatever they please, regardless of how ethical it is.

 

Even more sad are the ones who mistreat animals but still hold them for 'ransom' - (like that "firm" $1000). That just flat-out disgusts me. I watched a macaw get sold this week on CL - thankfully to a group of rescuers who pooled together to pay the 'ransom'. This bird was in a filthy cage with no toys, outdoors on a patio with no shelter, plucked, the woman 'rehoming' (aka selling him for $500 WITHOUT the nasty cage) claimed she didn't "have time for him" and felt sorry for him but wouldn't budge on the price. She stated "If I can't sell it I will just keep it because I am not losing money on this." If you consider this judgmental, that is your opinion and you have a right to it. I consider it calling a spade a spade because it's not going to turn into a heart or a diamond no matter how many times you flip it over.

 

I'll agree with you in one area----CL isn't the place to sell, trade animals of any kind besides birds, I;ve also seen other types of animals sold there. EBAY and AMAZON at one time did this and that was ended.

Otherwise, there's nothing for us to agree or disagree on. I too have also seen the same types of bad conditions exist concerning selling and trading and that doesn't only apply to CL.

I'm was referring to the mixing of legitimate rehomers in with bullshit rehomers/sellers/traders as far as being judgmental. In my eyes that OP didn't say anything that would make him sound illegitimate. He stated the situation as best as he could to strangers. His post is what I'm responding to. I stopped trying to find the bad people a long time ago because it doesn't take much to find them and finding them is very depressing and there's nothing that one can do about it. I also believe that some people who rush to *save or rescue* loads of birds are hoarders. No one talks about them though. They're just as bad as the bullshit rehomers/sellers/traders . Those birds don't get treated well too. Not enough time, space, lack of great food. I've also seen those hoarders.

. I can guarantee that the OP will get lambasted because of his decision. Does he deserve it? I don't think so. Is there a way to separate him from the others? I don't think so. He advertised on CL? Maybe that's the only place he knew about. I don't know and neither do you.

NOW, as far as people who are having babies-----

Let me tell you a story about a TAG named Tee. A married couple that I was slightly aquainted with from another bird board got Tee when he was 4 yrs old. They didn't know much about parrots but were genuinely interested in having one. They didn't know that greys can have different personalities, especially older ones. Well, Tee came with his own cage which the bird knew inside out. Every nook and cranny. It was his fortress. This bird could be classified as the ultimate attack/aggressive bird. They had him for 3 yrs. He couldn't be handled by someone's hand or arm. He couldn't even be handled with a perch. The normal hand perch is about 12 inches long? The perch they needed to use was 3 ft long because he went out of his way to savagely bite. Every bit was a skin breaker. This bird used to go out of his way to attack the husband. He went out of his way to attack the wife. He was only let out of his cage a few times because of their fear of him.

Well, as many married couples do when cohabitating in bed, they had a baby. Eventually, Tee finally knew where the baby was and as soon as he could, he hunted the baby down in order to attack the kid. Luckily, he never got close enough thanks to the parents. BUT he tried a few times. There were really frightened.

It was 11PM on a cold winter night when my phone rang. The wife was on the phone crying. She begged me to take the bird because they were truly frightened. She also said that I needed to come to her house to capture the bird to put him in a carrier. Husband and wife tried but both were bitten. They wanted to come here but they couldn't catch Tee. She promised to pay for the gas because she lived 220 miles away. I agreed to take the bird and the cage. There was no charge for the bird and cage but I didn't want her carrier. I brought my own little rabbit carrier. I finally corralled Tee and got him in the carrier.

 

Long story short, it took my wife and I about 1 1/2 yrs to change him into a friendly bird. We took many bites but were used to getting bitten from other parrots.

 

If these people were to put him up for adoption and said the reason was because of a new baby, they too would have been lambasted. Would they deserve it? Absolutely not BUT IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.

 

Well, Tee is now 16 yrs old and he's lost all of his aggression with people. It took a long time though. Everytime I go on my laptop, he flies over to my shoulder and he's asleep within 5 min. I constantly forget that he's up there. Yes he's still aggressive but that only applies to other birds which I can't change. That's his personality. He's a TAG and has to deal with 2 other big CAGs.

Moral of the story----they were legitimate but could have suffered from insults from people who knew nothing about things and worst of all those people wouldn't have believed them anyway. They were good people who were only trying to do the right thing and they too didn't know much about greys.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/CopyofDSCN0164.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/CopyofDSCN0173.jpg

Edited September 25, 2014 by Dave007

[aerial.2000]

We had an CL ad relayed just a couple days ago here on our DFW parrots about someone wanting to rehome their B&G as they have "a new baby is coming in the family". Of course I couldn't resist responding to the ad and offering to get rid of the baby for them. No response received

 

I'm unapologetically parrot-centric.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25673[/ATTACH]

LOVE the hoodie!

[Timbersmom]

Yes, that is a great hoodie!

[JeffNOK]

This topic brings up a lot of issues for me. The whole idea of parrots as "pets" is still controversial for many. There are far too many who are rehomed, neglected, or end up forever in a bird rescue "unsuitable for adoption".The PBS Nature program "Parrot Confidential" seemed intended to discourage anyone from getting a parrot.

 

Sometimes I have the tendency to get judgmental when I read ads from people who no longer have time for their birds. Inara's post could have been written by me on certain days. Much of this reaction comes from the fact that my life has been transformed and blessed beyond words by my own relationship with my CAG Gracie. I relate to her as if she is my child, so I can definitely understand the comparison to a person wanting to rehome their human ten year old kid. I realize that isn't a fair comparison, though.

 

For most people, however, parrots are pets like dogs or cats. It would be rare for a person to judge someone looking for a new home for their canine or feline. The understanding of domestic versus wild is not something many know or understand unless they do the proper research. The understanding of parrot intelligence and social needs is also not common for many who seek to get a bird. For many, animals are "just animals".

 

I was listening to a radio program the other day where the host said he got rid of his dog for chewing the leg of a table. This seemed perfectly reasonable for him. Chew the furniture--GONE. That is the mentality of a lot of people. Animals==well they are just animals. I don't think they are bad people for thinking this way, but I have such a different view that sometimes I want to smack them! They probably would want to smack me too for "anthropomorphizing" and giving too much value to non-humans. It comes down to basic world view--and that is nearly impossible to change.

 

The best we can do is support those who want to provide good forever homes to those parrots who need them. Many will adjust well and live happy lives. Others will not...and it breaks my heart. Unfortunately it seems that the number of people truly educated and committed to parrots is smaller than the number of parrots sold in the pet trade. This imbalance will leave us with the problem of neglected and unwanted birds for the foreseeable future.

 

I don't see an answer to this problem. But I understand the emotion involved. One good thing is that sometimes this forum is a good place to vent and get a little judgy. Nobody gets hurt and we qet our feelings off our chest to a mostly understanding audience.

[Timbersmom]

A lot of truth there Jeff. I was raised on a farm, and we had a lot of livestock raised for breeding and slaughter purposes. We had dogs and cats, but they were never allowed in the house and they had a "purpose" on the farm. I had a change of heart when I was living on my own and started letting domestic animals into my home and heart. My parents, however, were very much of the "animals are animals" mentality, though they would have never been intentionally cruel to a pet.

 

When I got Timber, I had no idea of the bond I would develop with him and how important he would become to me. I am very attached to my cats, but I have to say my bond with Timber is stronger. I can't explain it and didn't understand it before I got him. When I rehomed him, I just expected a pet bird. I did not expect to have much of a "relationship" with him. I just thought he would talk and be amusing and I would feed him and clean his cage. Ha! I do those things, but he certainly rules the roost. However, I had no idea when I got him how it would be. I also had no idea how much time, effort and money he would require.

 

I think many new bird owners are the same as me, clueless. For some of us it works out and for others it doesn't. I don't like to see any bird or animal shuffled from home to home. However, my view is that most of the birds being rehomed have a shot at being better off. For some, circumstances make it very difficult to keep their bird for whatever reason. For others, the bird is just a living toy and is to be discarded. For those in the last category, I only hope and pray that the person who ends up with the bird is fully committed to giving them a home and care.

[Inara]

Great post JeffNOK and very well stated. Dave brought up some good reminders about not being judgy and I am usually a pretty understanding and compassionate person. I do, however, have my less so days and at times just get peeved.

[Muse]

I think the OP probably did have the bird's best interests at heart. And I agree, you're friends did the right thing. But they actually had a legitimate problem. There is a huge difference between that and someone just dumping a pet because they don't want to take any time for them.

 

Rasa was that aggressive with his last owner, which is why she was considering euthanizing him. She didn't want to feel guilty if he attacked someone else and seriously injured them. So far, knock on wood, he's been peaches with me. He's too busy swooning over Megan to even think about being aggressive. The worst he does is lashing out at the bars on the cage if he gets woke up at night. (I get the same attitude from my husband, lol). He has not yet bitten though he's had ample opportunity. We have several 'perches' (we call them step up sticks) and he hops right on and has only once lunged out and hit the stick next to my hand when he could have easily taking a bite of the hand instead. Then he just locked gazes with me as if he were studying my reaction. I must have passed his test as it hasn't happened since. I think fear plays a huge part. Often it is a case of animals that sense fear and realize that something that fears them is prone to attacking them so often they will attack first to try to gain the upper hand. I am glad you rescued the little Grey. Looks like he came out well spoiled.

[Acappella]

Dave, bless you and all others who take on an aggressive bird and teach it to trust and love. Everyone here know the time commitment and consistency that would have taken and I respect you for putting in the months and months of hard work it took to turn your little TAG around. I hope the bird in this Craig's list ad gets a good second chance at life.