murfchck Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Holy cow do I just love this guy. There may be a name change happening soon. Tonight he just kept repeating Chacho, He is the first bird that has "chosen" me and not settled for me. Bongo loves me too but not like Chacho, aka Albert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted September 28, 2014 Author Share Posted September 28, 2014 Discovered the hard way, well he was gently demanding with nips on my back and neck, that you do not hold Albert/Chacho when you have a cracker in your hand. Ouch! He likes crackers by God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray P Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 The one thing about Amazons. They will sell their sole for a favorite treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 So when a bird doesn't like someone, that someone usually gets the wrath of the bird right? So why am I the one taking the bites when he sees Pat? lol Last night we had to move quick to get him off of me before I started springing leaks. We were in the kitchen, Albert on my shoulder when he just looked at Pat and started biting my head and neck and back. We had to move quick and all we could think to do was get his beloved cracker and toss it into his cage. (hindsight don't reward him for using me as his whipping post but we were moving fast) It worked and he went right into the cage. Pat said he was warning me of danger and was trying to get me to fly away. Next time I will try flapping my arms and pray he will look at me and say "bless your little heart, you can't fly. Okay then I will stop biting you to get you away from him." Lets hope that works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acappella Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Sounds like Pat has some sucking up to do, for the sake of your puncture free flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 So Chacho is purely my bird, no one else's no way no how, lol. For those of you who remember I took a bad bite/scratch from a monkey and almost lost my finger, tonight I took a bad bite from Chacho. What does this look like to everyone? A monkey face? I saw it and so did the hubs who took this picture and couldn't stop laughing. Such support I get from him. So this happened because Chacho was out and flew up to the very top of the tv over the cabinets, not a place he should be so I drug a chair over and climbed on top of the countertop and was trying to get him down, all was going just swimmingly, we played and I body dragged him to where I could reach him better, blocked areas he shouldn't get to (electrical and cable) and just about had him stepping up when Pat can home, he saw me on the counter and quietly walked up behind me and placed his hand on my lower back to brace me from falling and that was it! Chacho saw him and went wild on me. The picture is of my neck/ shoulder area, I had to grab his beak until he let go, from there he went down my arm and got me a few more times but then found a place he had a real good grip of and hung on until Pat left the room. Chacho is not a mean bird, I can do anything want with him... until Pat enters then I am minced meat. I did not freak out or react to the biting, just got to where I could put him safely in his cage, run outside and whine a bit. He got the muscle I guess because the pain when I turn my head is ridiculous, sore is an understatement. We talked to his previous owner and he just laughed and said "yeah, Chacho can really land a painful bite. (this coming from a man who has had 14 big guys of macaw species and his greys and a hawk head and Chacho. Said Chacho had the meanest bite of them all... Yeah? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 It sounds like he is trying to drive you away from the perceived threat-Pat. Weather for safety or personal reasons (claiming you) he wants you far away from your dear supportive hubby. I think Chacho/Albert is the possessive type. And yes=oww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Oh boy is he ever. I am his as painful as it is! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muse Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 So when a bird doesn't like someone, that someone usually gets the wrath of the bird right? So why am I the one taking the bites when he sees Pat? lol Last night we had to move quick to get him off of me before I started springing leaks. We were in the kitchen, Albert on my shoulder when he just looked at Pat and started biting my head and neck and back. We had to move quick and all we could think to do was get his beloved cracker and toss it into his cage. (hindsight don't reward him for using me as his whipping post but we were moving fast) It worked and he went right into the cage. Pat said he was warning me of danger and was trying to get me to fly away. Next time I will try flapping my arms and pray he will look at me and say "bless your little heart, you can't fly. Okay then I will stop biting you to get you away from him." Lets hope that works! A friend of mine who is a vet and somewhat of an expert on Amazons said they are famous for redirected aggression. I haven't seen it yet with Rasa. He does get on alert with the husband but so far hasn't bit anyone. I think he is staying on his best behavior trying to impress Megan. But I predict the husband will get bit eventually, because I can see the jealousy in his eyes when Megan goes to daddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 My bite turned into a very large blister, not sure how that happened. lol I do not love him any less but the poor little guy loves to get near my face and ears and now I redirect him and he seems confused as to why. Umm, sharp, painful, strong beak maybe? He is just so sweet when Pat isn't in the house. Last night we had to take a chance and I took Chacho into the living room to play with him and Pat came in and changed his cage papers. Pat announced he was coming into the room to tell me not to have him on me but the paper was in the other room. He saw Pat and his eyes changed, he looked for different ways to get to me but then after Pat was gone, he went right back to his playful self. Pat blames this on the fact that he had to towel him when we were bringing him home but I have had to towel him myself when he was outside and wouldn't go into the carrier to come back in and he is still fine with me. lol I do have to say though, I am very nervous about getting bit again, that bite is in my top two all time worse bites, the other was Bubba, our macaw, when he ripped my bottom lip in half giving me a "kiss". (haven't offered him my lips again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Chacho has learned where to let loose his aggression now, it is directed straight at Pat. I do not hold him when Pat is around, in fact Chacho can not be out of his cage if Pat is home. He flies right at Pat in his face, talons and beak open for the kill. Pat tried last night to get the bird bowls for dinner while Chacho was out of the cage in his room. That wasn't his best idea. He came away with 2 bloody fingers and blood drips all over his shirt. I got Pat to agree to sit by his cage and just talk to him, let me do all the handling of him and to not put Chacho in the position to attack. I feel bad that Chacho can't come out of the room but until this is under control we can not chance it with Pat or the other birds. He does get to come out with me when the coast is clear and when we are home the room is his to fly around and explore. This is really going to take a big effort to get him social again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywings Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Amazons can be over the top when it comes to who they target. He may never change or it may get better as time goes by, hormones, possessiveness and what ever past experiences go into his personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Yesterday was Chacho's first day outside in the big cage! He was scared to death, but after a while started to explore the front of the aviary a little. I have found that if I put both my hands around him, he steps right up so I took the jump to bring him out and not panic about getting him back inside which is what was holding me back about bringing him out. Since he attacks Pat I wouldn't have him to go get him if I couldn't do it. I didn't have to worry though because he was ready to get back inside after a few hours. lol He has been dubbed Green Terror by the last 3 people who have lived with him, I just don't see that (heehee) He runs to me and ducks his head and shoves it in my hand for loving. Pat is still awed at how much this bird totally loves only me, he follows my every move and keeps guard on me. Who needs a watch dog when Chacho is around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray P Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Chacho is seeing you as his safe haven and person of comfort. Cricket was the same way with me as she seamed to fall in love with me at first sight. After a month or two she started to accept my wife and son and we all became a family. Remember Amazons are food motivated and special treats by Pat can work wonders. Amazons seam to understand and respect self confidence in their care giver and people around them. If you show apprehension they could end up in control. If you are overbearing they can and will rebel and this can be true with all parrots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 I tried so hard to get Chacho to take a bath yesterday. We did it in spurts, first step was going into the bathroom so he could see the room, a little while later we went in and saw the room again, third time we tried to get on the perch in the tub. The shower curtain moved so that ended things for the night and I got the "Albert wants out, Albert's freaking out, Oh my God." So we quit for the night, lol. I did get a kiss from him though, that was way better than getting a cracker he already ate! lol. (anything he eats is called a cracker) Pat has been the dinner delivery guy for Chacho and the treat giver, but Chacho still tries to eat him instead of the offerings. Pat isn't giving up though, it will take a while but it will all work out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Ray is so right! Amazons MUST see confidence in anyone they interact with. I have seen that fact tons of times as my kids bring their friends into my home. She Loves those that aren't afraid and dont seem to mind if she hangs with them. Those that are a little apprehensive...she will attack them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 I can say for sure Chacho has not scared Pat at all but he does allow him the choice and isn't forcing himself on him. Little steps everyday. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Barbara H sent out one of her emails the other day about working with a new parrot. There is a lot to this article and I wanted to share it. After a few days of Pat trying to work with Chacho using her steps, so far, ha! Pat went into the room with him last night after a little training session with the crackers where he got to touch his beak a few times but as soon as Pat entered again later Chacho flew at him with his mouth open and talons stretched out. Chacho 5, Pat 1. My biggest issue with the little guy is that he keeps trying to feed me, which in itself is okay but he is determined to get it in my mouth ( or ear if I am not quick enough, lol ): Connecting with a New Parrot What really makes a difference vs. what you may have heard I spend a great deal of time on the road teaching parrot training workshops, meeting new parrots, making a connection with them, and then training behaviors such as step up, take medication from a syringe, interact with towels and so on. Sometimes because I spend so much time talking about these topics I assume many others must know all this information as well. However it became clear this is not the case when reading a thread on a chat group. A woman had inherited a macaw and was very unsure about how to interact with her new charge and was most troubled by how to train the parrot to step up. Here are some of the misguided tips she received from well-meaning members of the group: • Make him step up by using a stick • Expect to get bit • If he bites, ignore it and just take the bite, so he learns not to bite • Just sit by the cage and talk to him softly • He will grow out of the biting • Don’t show fear • Just put your finger near him and talk to him like he is human • Keep him below eye level • Just be patient and love him • Sing songs to him • Parrots are just bad pets and shouldn’t be in our homes I think it is wonderful that people want to help and are willing to share information. However the tips listed here are not what this bird or woman needs. And it saddens me that the information that will truly help this person is not reaching enough people. Here is what will make a difference…straight forward force free training with positive reinforcement. This means identifying something this bird finds of value. Singing and talking to the bird may be of value to some birds, but not all and in reality is usually not the most powerful reinforcer for a bird that has no relationship with the human in question. Fortunately it was mentioned the bird like walnuts. Awesome! Now there is a treat she can use to get started pairing something good with her presence. The nuts can be broken up into small pieces to offer lots of teaching moments throughout the day. The next step is to identify steps or approximations she can use to train the bird to step up. These are outlined in great detail in my DVD Parrot Behavior and Training, my eBook Train Your Parrot to Step Up and you can see examples on my YouTube page. Each step or approximation is reinforced with the pieces of walnut. While going at the birds pace is important, it does not necessarily mean you have to wait weeks or years to train this behavior. It literally usually only takes one to two training sessions for me to train this behavior. It is one I repeat over and over again with birds I have just met at parrot training workshops. There are always birds present at these workshops that show fear responses or aggressive behavior towards hands. This is the result of hands being used in coercive ways. It is not inherent to parrots. It is the result of learning and can be changed with force free approaches. Biting never had to be in these birds’ repertoire and nor does it need to be in the future. “Taking the bite” is not the way to go. Teaching the bird you will respect his or her body language and not push her to the point of biting will make biting irrelevant and not necessary. The result will be a much more trusting relationship between human and bird. Biting is not a phase to grow out of, nor is it solved by keeping birds low. It is also not the result of parrots being bad pets; it is the result of how people interact with parrots in coercive ways. A pleasant bite free relationship with parrots is completely possible when you use a force free training strategy. I hope by sharing this information here, we can get more people talking about kind, gentle and most important effective ways of building trust with companion parrots. Barbara Heidenreich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I've been reading this thread thinking it's about time you got to be The One for a change. But jeez, why does it always have to be extremes w/these guys? Still & all though, maybe Pat's getting a new perspective about what you've been thru. No more, "Why can't you just...?", for a while maybe?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Not that i am not enjoying asking him to get me something out of the bird room when Chacho is out, but to his defense, none of his birds would actually seek me out to kill me. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 He is turning on me... Being obstinate, won't step up and is getting head strong. lol He makes me chase him when it is time to go back into his cage and he gets to the very top where i can't reach and laughs at me. Good times!??! I had to actually towel him last night to get him back in the cage. He flew to the top of the tv that is mounted in the corner. I didn't think he had room to land on it because it is so close to the ceiling, but he did. Since he couldn't get to the back where the wires are he started chewing the rim of plastic around the screen. So, is this really life with an amazon? LOL I am too old for this! We did his clip backwards as i mentioned and decided to wait until they grew back before doing it correctly, but we are really thinking we shouldn't wait but that would mean he would have no wing feathers if we clip the front ones. He is so head strong that i really feel even if we clip them that he would still fly out of pure spite! I got home from work Thursday and went into the room and i guess i must have been worn out. I was telling them to give me a minute and i would come get them out and walked over to his cage. I feel horrible that he can't come out with the rest of them, and that must have been showing because the cutie pants cocked his head and asked me if i was alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I have had these type of episodes with Nilah. I have found that if you get upset, adjiyative , aggravated, frustrated, mad, or Anything other than staying calm, it only increases their behaviour. The only thing that worked for me is to ignore her behaviour , sometimes leaving the room, putting on some soothing music and allowing her the time she needs to calm herself and realize I really don't care if she pulls a stunt like this..my life goes on without her......when things are quiet..I go back into the room, with a forbidden object she wants and I don't pay any attention to her..I pretend to the object or take great interest in it and turning part way away from her...she usually after some time wants to see what's got my attention, and she will fly to my shoulder to get a look....I continue to ignore her presence. Then I will act suprised in a sweet voice that she is their by saying hi to her....after she sees how much I like that object...she tries to get it as I hang onto it dearly as we quickly walk to her cage where I bend down inside her door way for her to step,onto a perch as she is still playing tug a war with the object....it's usually A pencil...I allow her to have it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 I guess he is over it. He was puking for me last night, lol. Never thought i would be happy for puke... What a weird direction my life has taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) So Chacho is all over his tantrum and was talking up a storm last night. We couldn't video him talking though he would stop so Pat hung out at the door and video taped the door so we could get him talking. He has 3 different voices, one sounds evil lol. Still watching it ourselves to try and hear what he is saying. You can hear Bongo in the background and all the others making their noises too. Typical night in our house, loud and crazy. Actually, this wasn't that bad on the noise level. lol Edited November 5, 2014 by murfchck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Progress! Pat was able to go in the room yesterday without being attacked. Chacho flew at him just once and when Pat did not react to it he just flew to another cage and watched him carefully. Pat tried to get him to step up and Chacho struck at him a few times but didn't break any skin so that was good. He was just warning Pat, not out for blood. It is so funny that all the birds just love Pat except for my two, Bongo and Chacho. He has to call me to get them, yet his who all dislike me, i can atleast handle and move them around as they want. If he goes near mine they fly away or bite him. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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