My Feelings are Hurt

[chezron]

Brutus has never bit me to speak of -- until today.

 

In the last few months, about once every 1-2 months, if he is not pleased with me either because I am leaving the house or getting him out of his cage too late, he will squeeze my finger or skin pretty hard. He is 6 years old and he has never done this before. Now I know not to pick him up if he knows I am leaving because he will express his displeasure this way. The one thing I cannot change is getting him out of the cage. I always have him step up to come out of his cage. On sunny days I leave him in his cage until noon so I get roll him outside to get sun and this delays him coming out. Today was one of those days.

 

Around noon I had him step up to come out, and he really NAILED me and drew blood.

 

I am so hurt. This has never happened before and I am stunned. I know it doesn't help that I am still in the middle of dealing with my divorce and every day is another day of not knowing my future. I am fairly depressed and sad. I certainly didn't need to be bitten at this low point in my life, especially by the one being whom I love and depend on to help make my days a little bit better.

I truly do not know what to do. Should I not ask him to step up to get out of his cage anymore? Should I just open the door and let him come out? I feel like an important bond and trust has been broken, and I am extremely upset.

 

I hope you have words of wisdom for me.

[Muse]

Don't take the bite as a personal attack. It sounds like Brutus is using the bite as a way to try and change your behavior when it is something he does not like. Mar got that way, especially with my husband, when he was hormonal (i.e. - doing the humpty-dance for Megan). EVERY time that started, we knew the next phase was getting bitey. He did get a bit nippy with me, but down right BIT my husband and drew blood on several occasions. These occurred sometimes just randomly, and other times at predictable moments. My husband could not put him back in the cage without using the step up stick, and even then, he risked a lunge and bite. Once the hormones went away, Mar stopped acting like a brat and all was well. I don't know if it would have gotten worse as he got older because sadly, he didn't get older. He seemed to be a sexual prodigy as Megan still really hasn't shown any signs of being hormonal. I have read different accounts but it seems most indicate between 5-10 years old is their 'puberty'.

 

This may be what is going on with Brutus. It is that time of year. Or it could be the change in the family dynamics. He could be picking up on your being upset and depressed, and it is making him feel bad also. He could be biting out of frustration from feeling bad and not understanding why or how to deal with it.

 

We can't read their little feathered minds so unfortunately, all we can do is guess. I definitely would try just opening the door and letting him come out instead of offering up your flesh for the step up. I am of the belief that the less opportunity they have to bite, the less bites they can give, and I am all about avoiding the bite!

 

I know the times Mar bit me - even though it was never enough to draw blood - made it harder to trust. But eventually, when he returned to being sweet, the trust kind of fell right back in place like it was never gone.

 

I know this sounds crazy, but have you tried talking this over with Brutus? Even if he does not understand every word, the feelings that you experience as you form the thought into words seem to be something a Grey can read easily. I had a horrid battle with Megan going back to her cage that nearly always resulted in a good bite unless I manged to 'wipe her off' on the perch and pull my hand away very rapidly. My husband couldn't do it. She'd cling, she'd flip upside down, she'd bite. I finally started explaining to her why I needed her to go back (things like "Mommy needs to go to the store" etc) and all of a sudden it was a non-issue.

 

Keep us posted on how Brutus is doing. I know what you are going through is very difficult. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

[SRSeedBurners]

I'm just surprised you haven't been bitten in 6 years. Where did I go wrong I get bit every time I step out of line which is usually several times a day - and I'm Greycie's sweety pie puddin topps. Our issues usually deal with jealousy over me messing with the Caique - she can't stand that. I've also been bitten for not knowing she's hungry, thirsty, it's currently mommy time, etc...as she doesn't talk in context and sometimes I miss the birdy body language. Hang in there, they're easily forgivable.

[murfchck]

This too shall pass, just hold on. I know it is tuff on our feelings when the loves feels like it is fading but they will come back around. I chalked Bongo's change of feelings up to just testing the waters. For almost a full month, he wouldn't let me take him out of his cage, he would just sit in there until Pat got home and would step right up for him. Now we are back to normal, he won't let Pat touch him and i am his taxi. I also have never been bit by Bongo, hard pressure but not one drop of blood has been shed. I am still waiting for that day though, it will happen and of that i am sure. (Fearful of it because Pat says his bite if worse than Gabbys and Cotays and their bites hurt bad! lol.)

[Timbersmom]

There is lots of food for thought in the responses here. Timber has drawn my blood several times. I totally understand your feelings of hurt because I have felt the same. As you said yourself, your circumstances and where you are at emotionally right now magnify that.

 

Timber is a "spite biter." In other words, when he doesn't get his way or is angry at me, he is likely to bite. No warning, no heads up, just bam. The second time it happened, I remembered posts I read on here saying that greys are emotionally at the 2-year old toddler level and they stay there. When they are frustrated and upset with us over some real or assumed slight, what recourse do they have? They bite. That is the way it seems to me at any rate.

 

There may be any many other factors that influence it, including hormones and things going on in their birdy brains they we don't know or have a chance of comprehending. I just keep trying to figure out how to prevent it and when to expect it. When dealing with the hurt, I always remind myself that Timber is not a human. He doesn't think and feel like I do, nor does his behavior follow human patterns and expectations. Because our birds are smart and can reason, I think we sometimes attribute human feeling and responses to them. I remind myself that Timber has no idea how much a blood drawing bite hurts me physically or emotionally.

 

Hang in there!

[danmcq]

As others said, don't take it personal. Easy to say, but hard not to take it personal. YOuve been very fortunate to have only experienced the few bites you have received. One thing to perhaps consider is he is fully mature now and it is breeding season. His hormones are going and they do tend to become more nippy and disgruntled when mature during these times.

[katana600]

My worst bite came right when I was least resilient. It was sudden, unexpected, unprovoked and breathtaking in the speed and ferocity. My intellectual self said she was picking up on my emotions and it wasn't personal. But my heart was broken and trust that she was ever going to accept me was in question. I have learned more since then, have weathered worse times and see glimmers of hope and windows of opportunity where she is concerned. However that one deep, painful bite changed "us". I still find her charming, funny, and a great companion. It made me really evaluate her status as a fully grown adult wild animal and to be much more perceptive to seasons and behavior trends to avoid setting her up for certain failure when she is in an aggressive phase for some mysterious reason. My situation is different because she wasn't always with me and I am still learning. Sometimes a few days of treading carefully and giving her less attention allows her to shake off a mood that has little to do with me. Hope you get some insight soon and I'm so sorry you have endured this, you don't deserve that.

[chezron]

Thanks for all of your heart-felt and insightful replies. It IS that time of the year when hormones are coursing. Also, I had changed the normal progression of the day which is usually 1) Take off covers in am 2) Bites of banana, yogurt, or apple 3) roll cages outside 4) Let them out of their cages to have lunch. The day I got bit, I left out the sun part because it had remained cloudy, so I let them out when I could see that it wasn't going to clear up. I think the combination of hormones, change of routine, and me, anthropomorphizing a bird led to a lot more hurt than was necessary. I was also in a bad place psychologically yesterday. I am a little better today.

[Muse]

There is lots of food for thought in the responses here. Timber has drawn my blood several times. I totally understand your feelings of hurt because I have felt the same. As you said yourself, your circumstances and where you are at emotionally right now magnify that.

 

Timber is a "spite biter." In other words, when he doesn't get his way or is angry at me, he is likely to bite. No warning, no heads up, just bam. The second time it happened, I remembered posts I read on here saying that greys are emotionally at the 2-year old toddler level and they stay there. When they are frustrated and upset with us over some real or assumed slight, what recourse do they have? They bite. That is the way it seems to me at any rate.

 

There may be any many other factors that influence it, including hormones and things going on in their birdy brains they we don't know or have a chance of comprehending. I just keep trying to figure out how to prevent it and when to expect it. When dealing with the hurt, I always remind myself that Timber is not a human. He doesn't think and feel like I do, nor does his behavior follow human patterns and expectations. Because our birds are smart and can reason, I think we sometimes attribute human feeling and responses to them. I remind myself that Timber has no idea how much a blood drawing bite hurts me physically or emotionally.

Hang in there!

 

Emphasis mine -

I have found in working with various animals, wild or domestic, that often if you LET them know, it helps them judge where to draw the line. When Mar was little and he'd test-bite, I'd "yipe" as close to what he or Megan did when they bit each other too hard. He caught on instantly and got gentler and gentler. I know you are supposed to show "no reaction" and for some situations, this might be a good strategy. But I firmly believe that if the other creature understands they have gone too far, they will adjust their behavior. Very few of the creatures I have worked with have been directly malicious. Most bites were fear bites, or frustration bites, with a few behavior-modification bites from Megan mixed in for good measure. She is definitely a retaliatory biter. I am sure I have one coming tonight at some point for the vet visit today, and am going to be sure to be on my toes to try and avoid or at least mitigate it. But the "yipe" has worked with many of the critters I have had the pleasure of working with over the years, adjusted slightly for the native 'language' of the species, of course. After all, this is how the young learn to play together without hurting each other.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Chezron... I am so sorry! All have excellent posts especially the hormonal aspect! As a divorced mom, who also got Sophie after the divorce, I can understand and empathize how important your bird is for you during these raw emotional times.I would feel betrayed too! But your baby is your wingman... always will be and the love will always be there. A bite doesn't mean "I don't love you... it means many other things, but not that.

I find it amazing how anyone can get their bird to stepup from inside their cage. I never did it. All my guys stepup off their door. They all taught me that! LOL Nancy

[Inara]

Chezron, I'm a little late to the thread, and just want to add my encouragement. It really *is* hard not to take something personally, because we are....persons. When we're not at our best emotionally, it's much easier for us to internalize things that during the good times we might just simply analyze and not take so much to heart. You mentioned that you can't change having Brutus step up from his cage? Is it really necessary that he come out when he does not want to? I can only speak for myself and HRH Inara, but when she does not feel like coming out, she lets me know. She usually will ask verbally to come out, but if she doesn't, I will offer my hand and ask her if she wants to come out and "Go......<--- fill in the blank with wherever or doing whatever." If she is not up for it, she just sits quietly or moves to another perch or different spot in her cage. This signals me that she is not receptive to wanting to come out. She then will come back toward my hand, and I'll say, "OK, it's all good. I see want to stay home," and then I give her a scritch and close her door. The other night, she actually reached over with her beak and helped shut the door herself. She goes through times where she really just prefers to hang out in her cage for a couple of days, other than coming out for breakfast (her favorite meal of the day!). Maybe Brutus, also is having days where he just wants a bit of time to stay perched in his home? Does Brutus give you through his own unique body language any signals that he is not receptive?

 

I know you've already thought of a million reasons as to why Brutus' behavior has been changing, and there have been some great suggestions here for explanations -- a 6 year old during mating season being near the top of the list for sure. The thing about the trust issue? I imagine having been soundly bitten can make you feel a bit hesitant, but Brutus is not going to turn into a chomper. Try to take a deep breath, relax, and let Brutus tell you when and if he wants to accept your invitation to come onto your hand. You've got this!

Edited May 14, 2014 by Inara

[KevinD]

I have found you can take the grey out of the wild, but you can not take the wild out of the grey.

 

They still have their base instincts, the bites in my opinion are not driven by emotion, but by instinct built into them for thousands of years.

 

Its like a trained tiger, you can train them, and they can be your best cuddly friend most times.

 

I reference the Lion/Tiger acts in Vegas that go bad sometimes, and people get killed or seriously injured.

 

My experience with Greys spans only one year now, but in my humble opinion, that the way I see it.

 

I have a grey that was most probably smuggled into a country straight from Africa as a chick.

 

So I really see the difference between a domestic bred bird and one born in the wild.......

 

Again, just an opinion, your miles may vary.

 

Good luck to you, and time heals all wounds, bites or otherwise.

[katana600]

When i read the post from Muse about the "yipe" in the critter's native language, I laughed at the memory of shock and awe and total lack of control when Gilbert bit through the tip of my finger and punctured the nail from the underside. I used her language all right. You know, the one special powerful word she uses that earned her nickname from our vet "The Cussin' Cajun."

[Greywings]

Yes we do have to keep in mind they have those built in survival instincts to keep them alive as they are a prey animal rather than a predator. Some times even though they are so very smart and often read our body language better than we can it is possible they can misinterpret our actions as aggressive or scary if we move quickly or unexpectedly. Just one more thing to add to the list of possibilities. New day new chances to move past the bite and rebuild that trust between you.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

katana600... Too funny! LOL LOL Nancy

[chezron]

Thank you Inara for reminding me that this does not mean Brutus will turn into a biter. He really is sweet, pretty much all of the time. I do think a combination of hormones and anger made him act inappropriately. He knows the strength of his bite very well, and never oversteps his pressure when I have him on his back and we are "wrestling." He whips his head around and mouths me, sure, but he KNOWS not to bite hard, and he never gets so excited in playing that he does bite hard.

 

I have no trouble having him step up out of the cage. Where I got into trouble was when, once out, he extends his foot like he wants to get picked up, but it is a ploy to get me to come over and then he bites me instead. He avoids being in his cage like the plague. If I get him out he will not go in except at bed time. If he is in the cage, he will repeat, "Wanna come out?" or "let's go outside" until he gets out.

 

No, he knowingly bit me the other day and he knowingly bit me hard enough to draw blood. There is no denying that.

 

But….

He is hormonal and he was angry--bad combination. I HAVE had him for six years, and he has never done this before. So, I will do what I always have done, and that is to figure out the circumstances, and avoid repeating them. He is still my sweet boy, and that has not changed. Thank you so much for your words of wisdom.

Edited May 17, 2014 by chezron