And just like that.. I took two steps back...

[Quirky]

In case your wondering it took a mere blink of an eye for me to take two steps back. Note I take full blame for this one...

 

So right after I was bragging on Jake playing on his swing in another thread he decided to take flight (to my surprise he actually held his altitude several feet before decending) and land in one of his favorite spots the end of our hallway. Here he for some reason loves to chew on the carpet. Obviously this does not please me like it does him so I go to pick him up as usual. Most times he gives me 'tude when I interrupt his play time in this spot, however he usually will step up for me with some coaxing... For some reason tonight was different, he outright refused to step up. He of course went though the rigamarole of fluffing up, shaking his head no, making his warning sounds, clicking ect and yet I refused to back down (dinner had just finished and I needed to make a plate still for my son). After a few minutes he walked over smoothed down and leery, clicking on my long sleeve shirt before hopping up on my arm to chomp down on my hand. I did anticipate that this might happen but still a bit surprised none the less. This is the point where my frustration really began to grow and it seemed like the more frustrated I got the more he digged in with his refusal to step up. It escalated in a matter of minutes resulting in him lunging at me a few times... out of sheer caution for not only myself but for him as well (I was afraid if he decided to chomp down and hold on I might swing him off out of a reflex reaction) I grabbed the one thing I know he fears, I hated having to do it but one look at the bath towel and he immediately stepped up.

 

Really I'm wondering if it comes down to whether I should do some training sessions with the step up command? He know the command, usually though I ask if he wants to come with. I'm a little afraid I just destroyed some of the trust that we have built up over the few months we've been together. Any advice out there?

[BaileysPapa]

They're always testing us. Sometimes we let them win, sometimes they have to learn that sometimes you do what is asked of you. He just learned that YOU sometimes win. I don't think any harm was done. See how he continues to act. If aggressive or fearful, then, yes, go back to Step Up training. If not, just another test encounter.

[katana600]

You did the right thing insisting he move from destroying your home. In a perfect world we can ask and be granted cooperation. There are times when Gilbert has refused to go into her cage at bedtime lately. This has just started and she has been with us three years. Our routine has always been to start turning off the living room lights one lamp at a time. When the next to last light is shut off, I ask her to get ready to go night night. Gil is an older rescue and we have not gotten to the place where she will step up willingly. Usually she will go inside when I tell her its time to go night night and I give her an almond in the shell for a reward and bedtime snack. When I am going to leave the house, I will ask her to go inside and she will usually oblige with that as well. Lately, like Jake, she is pushing her boundaries. I have some small squares of fleece Gil hates as much as a towel. All I have to do is to say "you can go in the easy way or the hard way, but you have to go in". Then I lay the fleece about six feet away on the back of a chair. I leave the room and give her the grace to go inside, thank her and put away the fleece. I am wondering if there is something similar that might help with Jake. My method is first to ask for cooperation, then to require it more firmly, offer a reward, use the gentlest and minimal effective response to insist and we have only once actually needed to use a towel when it was time for a vet appointment and she was determined not to cooperate. From then on, the suggestion of a towel, or light fleece being put in her range of vision is enough. I'm not sure you took two steps back, Jake is evaluating the process to see where he went wrong in that transaction. I am wondering if you have something he doesn't like that will prevent him from flying down the hallway if that is where he likes to go to pick at your carpet. Some people use a stuffed animal, plastic owl or other dreaded object to discourage certain places where they will set up a battle. You will find Jake's soft spot as well as his best and favorite rewards when he does cooperate.

[Quirky]

Thanks for the advice. After talking with the hubs last night I think there was something else going on causing him to stand his ground. Jake is still afraid of the shower we are slowly aclimating him to the idea of sitting on the shower perch but to ask him to sit on it with the shower on is just too much. As a result we have to spray him with the spray bottle which he also is not fond of. Ususally we wait until he is trying to bathe himself before dragging it out. Apparently while I was at work the hubs had given him a thorough spraying, I almost wonder if Jake had decided since he was forced into a bath that he was going to have a say in something yesterday and he chose the hallway carpet last night?

 

Of course this is pure speculation on my part. This morning we are still not quite back to being buddies. I was not greeted with my rise and shine whistle and after opening the cage door the first place he flew to immediately.... the end of the hallway... of course. After him threatening to bite me some more, then trying to trick me to get to me, and me trying to coax him to come with, the hubs brought the towel out which sent Jake running my way and stepping up in a hurry. Since then we have shared some ice water and he stepped up and down off his swing for me quite nicely so I don't feel like all is lost... but like you said Dee I may have to find a deterrent. He doesn't seem to like large boxes so maybe I'll put an empty one back there for now.

 

I also wonder if maybe now is the time to look at constructing him a playstand. I wonder if by giving him a new area that is okay for him to play in would help.

 

On a side note when I say I used the towel I should have said I had to show him the towel. I've never had to towel him so far, but I know from his previous owner that he hates them. Dee I picked this one up from your thread. It's taking me a while to get through reading you and Gilberts journey together I think I'm only on page 85 of the thread at the moment

Edited March 1, 2014 by Quirky
Added to the post

[Timbersmom]

I've earned a few "spite bites" in my time. If I insist that Timber steps up, when he is doing something he wants to do that I don't want him to do or something dangerous, he will bite after stepping up. I just put him in the cage for a time out when that happens. I've also had to use the dreaded towel to force compliance (like getting him in the carrier to go to the vet). I always use it as a last resort, but you do what you have to do. During the first six months or so of our relationship, I felt like incidents like this caused a setback. Now that he trusts me, he doesn't seem to hold a grudge or get upset for any length of time.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

THATS a timeout! I am a firm believer in timeout, and its NOT in their cage. A " timeout" cage devoid of toys. Many don't believe in timeout cage, that is their choice.One minute per year. A room away from comfort. After timeout, a discussion about the bad behavior.It took six months for Sophie to truly understand what timeout meant. Kids would call me at work... it was a big deal! We always had to be on the same page. Within six months, she stopped biting, was more interested in what made us happy. Nancy

[katana600]

You have probably read the situation right. Jake was already looking for a battle after his bath and held his ground moreso than he would normally with you. You have good instincts. Its a great idea to create a play area for Jake so he has a positive place to expend his energy and curiousity. In TX we had parent taught driver ed and there was an online course to learn some pointers. There was one insight that has helped me in many ways. If you see an impending collision etc. if you tell the student for instance "don't hit that post", it has the opposite effect. It will first distress the driver and second it will focus them on exactly what not to do. Instead, it suggested for instance to say calmly, "steer left", "put on your brake", etc. to guide toward your goal instead. I really liked that and it has come in handy. Your idea of a playstand is that kind of positive thinking. Moving Jake to the place where you want him to be tearing apart his own things might help keep your things intact.

[danmcq]

The only thing I can add to what others have already wisely posted. Is that greys are very "Sensitive" to our emotions. They feed off of them. The more agitated we become, they will respond with equal agitation. It takes time, but you will learn to stay calm and reason with your grey. I dropped the insistence for a step up in situations like this. It always wound up with me getting bitten in the process of demanding the step up and Dayo remaining upset for a while. Instead, I started reasoning with him and explaining that he needs to "Be careful" and to "Let me Help You" as I slowly go in for the step up. He has learned the concepts of both those phrases over the years when incidents have happened and I or my wife rescue him after a mishap. So now when he is somewhere banned or starting to destroy something, I use the aforementioned phrases and he willingly just steps up and I bring him up and give him a kiss saying "There, that's better" and he is happy as a clam.

[Luvparrots]

I talk to my parrots all the time. They understand so much and really want to be part of the family/flock.