Really need some training advice ASAP!

[BeeFernandez22]

Hi all It has been a long while since I have been on the forums! Hope everyone is doing well.

 

I am having some serious behavioral issues with Maverick. If you all remember, I got my CAG, Maverick, last August. He will be 2 on March 25th already. Yikes! He has been developing a HUGE vocabulary and talks non stop! lol. He is definitely in the right family He is SO entertaining to listen to. That being said.... he is getting quite unruly in his behavior and his non stop screaming has gotten to a point where my fiancé and I are beginning to actually fight over it. I have been in contact with my breeder who has offered some advice but we have yet to make any progress. I am certain this is not just normal "loud bird" behavior. I am quite familiar with his "pterodactyl" scream that he does when he is playing and this is not it. He is just being a spoiled brat. We have tried several things for periods of time with no changes made We have tried flat out ignoring him, talking to him quietly to reassure him, putting him in time outs... NOTHING has helped. What on earth can I do to help this situation? I cannot imagine having to rehome him but I am afraid that will have to be considered if I cannot improve things somehow.

 

To add to the frustration, Maverick is now flighted. (I realize that this is a very debated topic in this community but it was discussed at great lengths with both our avian vet and breeder and we ultimately decided to give it a try.) At first he was absolutely fine with this and we had no issues. Both my fiancé and I discussed what allowing him to remain flighted would entail in the way of safety precautions and whatnot and it was working very well. Occasionally Maverick would fly off of his stand or onto something I would rather him not so I would quickly correct him with a stern "no" and place him back on his stand or cage play area. For the last month or two he has been absolutely pushing his limits and refuses to stay anywhere he is placed. I know it is nor realistic for him to stay somewhere permanently and I don't expect that, but he is flying off the second I set him down and NOW he will not even allow me to pick him up when he does this so we are forced to play the "chase" game that usually ends with me having to blanket him. This is NOT the way I want to train him and I know it's very frustrating and un healthy for the both of us. I am at my wits end. I have had just about every animal known to man throughout my lifetime and have always been very successful in training them but I am absolutely lost here and feel like I am a terrible parrot owner. I literally look like the crazy woman standing in the check out line at Walmart while her child just runs through the store screaming, destroying shelves. My next move was going to be taking him to get his wings clipped again but I wasn't sure if this would be safe now that he is used to being flighted. Will this cause problems? Also, getting his wings clipped doesn't fix the actual problem of him being 110% stubborn and uncooperative with me so I would like to actually address the root of the problem in the correct way. Perhaps I am doing something wrong that I am unaware of to cause this?? :confused::confused::confused: Any and all suggestions and advice would be overwhelmingly appreciated.

 

Sincerely,

 

"Going bald and CRAZY over here...."

Edited December 12, 2013 by BeeFernandez22

[BaileysPapa]

Your Maverick is going through the "terrible twos". Just like a human child. It will pass, but can take some time. My advice would be to try to redirect some of his behavior, give him more things to occupy his mind & time, and do clip his wings. They know what it means to be clipped, and can feel the restraint immediately. He may be resentful right away, but, will adjust. It really is a phase, the terrible twos, and sometimes even threes. Also, on a lighter note, there is a train of thought that names can affect a personality. A Maverick is a free thinker, a rascal, an unconventional creature. I often caution people about naming pets things like Rascal, Diablo, Loki (god of mischief), and other names like that. I have a friend that wanted to name his Cockatoo "Icarus" until I reminded him that Icarus was the only man ever to fly, but, fell from the sky to his death, because he got too close to the sun, and his wings of wax and feathers melted. I'm not really serious about this last part of my response, but, it is something to think about. Good luck with your baby, and please have patience with him.

[Dave007]

Your Maverick is going through the "terrible twos". Just like a human child. It will pass, but can take some time. My advice would be to try to redirect some of his behavior, give him more things to occupy his mind & time, and do clip his wings. They know what it means to be clipped, and can feel the restraint immediately. He may be resentful right away, but, will adjust. It really is a phase, the terrible twos, and sometimes even threes. Also, on a lighter note, there is a train of thought that names can affect a personality. A Maverick is a free thinker, a rascal, an unconventional creature. I often caution people about naming pets things like Rascal, Diablo, Loki (god of mischief), and other names like that. I have a friend that wanted to name his Cockatoo "Icarus" until I reminded him that Icarus was the only man ever to fly, but, fell from the sky to his death, because he got too close to the sun, and his wings of wax and feathers melted. I'm not really serious about this last part of my response, but, it is something to think about. Good luck with your baby, and please have patience with him.

 

So, what you're saying is that there'a a train of thought that some greys or other species of parrots know how to develop personalities or traits according to the types of names they're given?? Where do these birds find this info about what certain names mean? Is there a special bird library that they visit to get this information? I'd like to know how this is possible. If there is a special library then I'd like to visit it although I know my entrance may be blocked by 2 greys named Attila and Bruno

 

*Free thinkers*-----in the wild flock birds think as one---they eat at the same time---they sleep at the same time--they roost at the same time---they all fly in the same direction when trying to avoid predators-----they breed at the same time every year-- they build the same kind of nest. It's called survival of the fittest. Any variation to these habits pertain to old or sick birds. Birds in the flock never try to aid these sick or old birds. Nature takes over.

 

This applies to all wild animals to a certain degree. Cubs of lions will stay with pride until nature tells them to start a new pride. Bears do the same thing. Wolves act as one in the wild. It's also called survival. With all of these animals, there's no such thing as *free thinkers* especially flock birds and flock animals. All flock animals would slowly disappear if they became *free thinkers*.

 

As far as wing clipping, yes there's trains of thought but I feel that disabling an area that was meant be there is not an answer. They were given wings for a reason. Just maybe, it's different owners that needs more training then the bird who's getting disabled.

 

After all, it's a well thought out fact that for many people, a grey isn't a good parrot to start off with if the person has never had parrots before. I've seen loads of greys wind up in second and third homes and also in shelters/adoption centers just for that reason. Many people don't like that being said but facts don't lie.

 

In the parrot world as a whole, there's only two species of parrots that have such an intense damaging problem with feather plucking/ chewing/barbering. Those two species are greys and cockatoos. AND thats also something they don't do in the wild.

 

TERRIBLE TWOS-----------

 

The only reason that parrot description was invented was because many people couldn't understand why that sweet, cuddly, cute little bundle of joy, that never bit anyone that they got as a baby started to develop into a natural grey parrot peronality---not so sweet, not so cuddly, quick to bite with it's *hand*. In other words, the proper description for the african grey as it grows is *aloof*. Many other species are just exact opposite.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Dave007

[BaileysPapa]

Dave, I didn't mean that the animals know what names mean. I meant that words have powers of their own. And names, like other words, have certain vibes or natural attachments to them. Also, I said I wasn't seriously blaming his name for his behavior. You show a Buddha at the end of your posts. If you are a Buddhist, as I am, then, you know how Karma, of various forms, affects us. And I suggested clipping as a way of subduing the questioned negative behavior. I am not in favor of random clipping. But, I have a "problem child", and have rehabilitated several others, and being clipped has helped with behavioral problems. My Elvis is the only bird of mine that I clip. And nobody can agree more about the real solution being better trained, and perceptive, guardians. I always agree with everything I see you post, and hope that I have not offended you, or anyone else here, with my "tongue in cheek" response about names. If I have, I sincerely apologize.

[Dave007]

Dave, I didn't mean that the animals know what names mean. I meant that words have powers of their own. And names, like other words, have certain vibes or natural attachments to them. Also, I said I wasn't seriously blaming his name for his behavior. You show a Buddha at the end of your posts. If you are a Buddhist, as I am, then, you know how Karma, of various forms, affects us. And I suggested clipping as a way of subduing the questioned negative behavior. I am not in favor of random clipping. But, I have a "problem child", and have rehabilitated several others, and being clipped has helped with behavioral problems. My Elvis is the only bird of mine that I clip. And nobody can agree more about the real solution being better trained, and perceptive, guardians. I always agree with everything I see you post, and hope that I have not offended you, or anyone else here, with my "tongue in cheek" response about names. If I have, I sincerely apologize.

 

Please, no apologies are needed or warranted. A post comes across in a certain way and many people take that seriously. Think about that. Haven't you seen that happen? It's my belief that to give a more serious tone to certain posts can be beneficial. It takes much more to offend me.

[Inara]

At the risk of being pretty simplistic, and getting back to your question(s):

 

1) the non-stop screaming: perhaps a trip to the Vet just to rule out anything physical would be in order?

2) if you and your fiance are arguing about it, then tension is increasing in your home, and this can be picked up by your bird so he may be more on the alert and expressing it loudly

3) if you have to do the "chase and towel" then his natural reaction is going to be to start seeing you as a predator rather than as a flock member.

 

You may want to go back to square one, with designated time in his cage, change up some toys in there, and then structured time out of his cage with you and not on a perch since he is flying off of that. have him on your hand, and re-establish that rapport with longer periods out of cage and with you, then back into his cage with a major treat upon going back in.

 

Dave007 and others would know more about age related issues than I, as while not new to greys/parrots I am new to a young one. After much reading (and zero practical experience except day to day with Inara) it's my understanding that this is an age where in the wild they would be becoming more independent. So flying off his perch and choosing when and where he wants to be would be quite natural. Upon doing so, being chased down and toweled would likely instigate a "wtquack"?? result, and then eventually a conditioned avoidance of you and viewing you as more predatory than flock member. All he knows is that his buddy has now become someone who is inhibiting his independence and is stalking him.

 

Hence, my thoughts on "starting over," with things that both he and you can be successful with. He's being what comes naturally, and because your behavior has also changed, he's viewing you in a completely different light. It may be helpful to see if his screaming happens at any particular time of day, or in any recognizable pattern (time, duration, frequency, people, things). If he does fly off of your hand, and/or later as you progress back to perch time, try not to chase and towel, but give him some time to settle, then quietly sit down somewhere near him, and offer a few tidbits tossed on the floor in front of you, and wait for him to come over, then give him a little more time, and offer to have him step up.

 

You both will make it through this, and I'm sure there are others here who can give you great advice based on their experiences. Certainly, your frustration shows. Above all, don't take his behavior personally. There is a reason behind it, so look at it as a puzzle, and work on putting those pieces together.

[BeeFernandez22]

Thanks for the advice everyone. After re-reading my post, I think I need to clarify a few things. When I say he flies off of his stand, I should point out that he has multiple "stands" and places that are his to perch and play on. It isn't like I am expecting him to stay on some stationary object and chasing him down the second he leaves. It kind of sounded like it though, as I read what I type. He was always trained fairly early on with towels so it wouldn't be as big of a scary event when it was necessary to do so, like at his vet visits, for example. He has never been fearful of this before, nor is this something brand new and foreign to him. I had accepted that he was probably just growing into a more independent, adult bird and thus wanting to test his boundaries and explore on his own terms but any time I walk anywhere near him he immediately flies away. Now when I am sitting down doing something, he will approach me in his usual nosy fashion and usually climbs up on me for his head scratches. (If I am eating, he is literally fighting to sit in my food dish and trying to steal everything in it.) The second I begin to get up and ask him to step up, or if I have him step up and then stand up and start to walk he will immediately fly off and refuse to allow me to approach him again. This leads me to believe this is not a fear thing, but simply a stubborn "I don't want to so I am not going to" thing. Similar to a child at bedtime or anywhere else that they are not ready to leave. Often times I am not even trying to pick him up to take him back to his cage, but to go upstairs or into another portion of the house (which he is used to) so I also don't think he is just conditioned to think that my trying to pick him up is always an indication of playtime ending. There are simply times when I just have to resort to the toweling because this will just continue on and on and I do not always have the time allowance to just let him find his own way back to the cage when he is tired of being out. Last night our squirrel, Ollie, was laying on my chest while I was petting her head and Eric brought him upstairs and into the bedroom (he has suddenly stopped despising my fiance whom he has always tried to bite and was never able to even touch Mav). As soon as he noticed what was going on he kept trying to get to my chest and putting his head down and chirping insistently that I pet him, in a very almost jealous manner. The same sort of thing we get from our dogs when one is getting attention and the other tries to "butt in".

 

As far as the screaming goes, this has been going on for some time and I do not think it is anything health related. It also is not limited to any particular time of the day or correlated to anything specific that I am aware of. If I am standing there looking at him or I turn around and look at him, he immediately stops. It very much seems like an attention thing but not addressing him and ignoring him when he screams did not seem to help at all. This has been an ongoing issue for awhile now but this refusing to step up thing is fairly new and started overnight it seems.

 

As far as his name... he was named after my all time favorite movie, Top Gun. Being that Maverick was a bit of a boundary pusher and pain in the butt (so to speak) in the movie, I guess he is just living up to his character.... Haha.

Edited December 14, 2013 by BeeFernandez22

[Inara]

That really did clarify a lot! It does sound like Mav's not stepping up, etc. really is an "Don't want to, don't have to," independence type of behavior, especially since you've hit all the bases as far as not putting him back in his cage every time you pick him up, etc. When you were first teaching him to step up and/or come to you did you give him tidbits/reinforcers? (the old ask/behavior/praise and reward). You may have to start going back to the basics of that with him, practicing step up and reward while you are sitting down for a couple of days, then moving on to making a small motion of standing up, but not all the way after he has stepped up, praise and reward for staying on you, wash rinse repeat until he is successfully staying with you as you stand. When in doubt, always go back to something, no matter how small, that both he and you can be successful with.

 

Inara knows "time to go home," which means we're heading to her cage rather than "kitchen, bedroom, downstairs," etc. Before I stand up, I'll say, "Hang on, we're going to the _______." This way she knows where we're headed, and so if it's not "home" she understands that it's not going back to her cage time. She also always gets her favorite treat (which is only given to her when she "goes home") when she steps onto one of the perches in her cage. You probably already talk with Maverick to let him know that you're going to stand or which room you're going to, and have a word for his cage so that he knows the difference. Sometimes it helps to get and keep eye contact while you are making the move.

 

As for the screaming, you say that it stops when you look at him. Looking is still addressing him and can be a reinforcer. How long is the longest that it has gone on before you turn to look? Have you tried walking out of the room (without saying anything or looking at him) the moment he begins the screech, and not coming back until he's quieted? When he quiets on his own even for a few seconds, do you immediately give him praise/attention and/or a reward and let him know that is a good thing? I know it's got to be really hard when it can be so loud and ongoing, and also when it causes tension between you and your fiance, and it sounds like you've already been trying all of the above and every Hail Mary play you can think of with him right now.

 

There are so many great resources in the threads here in the forums, as well as some very decent youtube videos out there on behavior issues, as well as some decent books. So many birds are rehomed about every 2 years, and many by the time they wind up in a sanctuary or birdie pound, have been rehomed 8 to 10 times. If you stick it out with him, the rewards far outweigh the irritants and inconvenience of this stage, but it does take consistency, consistency, consistency, and understanding that just like we like to have a paycheck for showing up for work every day, our wild feathered friends also like paychecks and usually prefer them immediately rather than down the road.

 

PS -- squirrel? How long has your squirrel lived with you?

Edited December 15, 2013 by Inara

[danmcq]

"The second I begin to get up and ask him to step up, or if I have him step up and then stand up and start to walk he will immediately fly off and refuse to allow me to approach him again. This leads me to believe this is not a fear thing, but simply a stubborn "I don't want to so I am not going to" thing. Similar to a child at bedtime or anywhere else that they are not ready to leave. Often times I am not even trying to pick him up to take him back to his cage, but to go upstairs or into another portion of the house (which he is used to) so I also don't think he is just conditioned to think that my trying to pick him up is always an indication of playtime ending."

 

My thoughts on this from experience....

 

First, he has now gotten his "Wings". He has the ability now to go where and when he wishes. There is a whole new world out there to explore and he is no longer "Dependent" upon a human for transport to places they are going and he has long had the desire to go places you never have taken him to. He can go when he wants to now. He does not need to just sit and wait. Why should he?

 

He is going to go places you consider off limits. The only thing that will stop that is placing items he is fearful of. I use toy's or items that our grey is unsure of, thus will start to go to a place or item, see what "Scary thing" I placed there and either land a distance from it and watch it or fly back to his originating point. This is one possible solution for you.

 

Now in regards him not wanting to go when or where you do. If there is no harm in just letting him stay where he is, then do so. As long as you have place things like I described above and you know he is not going to go to a forbidden zone then he is fine. He will come to where you are if he desires or just sit and chill. Normally the times when a step up is a "must do" because you need to cage him is not often versus you just want to take him where your going. So give this some thought on how to give him the freedom of choice.

 

As others have said, he is only two and on top of that his just gained flight abilities. That is a double whammy your going to need to just recognize as a flood of thoughts and feelings on his part. It is going to take a ton of patience, less "High Anxiety" between you and boy friend (They pick up and mirror emotions) and more trying to figure out how to let him use those new found abilities and emotion. It will be trial and error on both you and your greys parts. The more exasperated you become over this behavior, the worse the behavior will become. Kind of like the physical law of equal and opposite force being applied.

 

Vent your frustrations here and get answers and thoughts from others here to help you through this time as you have just started to do. We are all pulling for both you and your grey for a positive outcome.

Edited December 15, 2013 by danmcq