Terrorist with wings?

[monax]

There have been some startling behavioral changes in Toby, our 2-year old TAG in the last few weeks. He's become especially clingy, and simply won't stay on his play stand. He follows us from room to room, intercepts us at the stairs when he sees that we're going upstairs. For the most part, this is pretty charming, except that he can't sit still and constantly flies to me when I'm working at my desk (landing inconveniently on my head or shoulders).

 

More troubling is that he has gotten very aggressive about biting. He'll fly to me, and chew on my arm. Then he'll flip upside down and attack my arm or hand repeatedly with hard bites. It's hard not to react when he's doing this as it's incredibly painful. I have no idea if he does this because it's fun for him (attacking his toys while hanging upside down is one of his favorite activities), or he's being territorial, or if something else is bothering him. He also employs this "biting while hanging upside down" maneuver when he resists being put back in his cage.

 

Up until now Toby has been allowed out of his cage for most of the day, but lately I've had to keep him in the cage longer than I'd like because 1) I can't work while he's constantly flying to me, and 2) Trying to get him to step up on his perch or putting him in his cage results in another sequence of aggressive biting.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? Is this just a phase, or the beginning of serious behavioral issues that I should be worried about? Thanks for any advice you can give.

[danmcq]

It sounds to me like Toby is full blown in to the terrible two's at this time. Your description sounds exactly like Dayo was from about 18 months through 3 years old. He was a terror at times. Your going to have to learn to deal with it, much as you are in leaving in cage a little longer so you can get work done. You'll also figure out ways to avoid situations that will invoke a bite, at least slow them down any way. The good news is, it is a phase they go through that does end after a while. You should post and ask for help when you start feeling overwhelmed about such behavior. Many of us have been through this and will have helpful tips for specific situations.

[Dave007]

The famous NO SHOULDER personality------

 

This concerns a bird who has decided to be a body biter. No matter how sweet, kind, loveable, cute and adorable your bird is right now, if he gets the idea that he can go on your shoulder because of attractions, I guarantee you that in the future, he will give you an absolutely free-of-charge earlobe piercing ( if you're a female ) ( this post applies to men and women ) for your next set of new earrings that you buy. If you wear a chain on your neck, they're able to snap and break it without even trying hard. They love shiny jewelry. This goes for other adults or children too because as far as ear lobes go and other body parts , there is no sexual preference. Another reason for not doing the shoulder thing is that if you use some sort of hair grooming item in your hair, they will get to it because they love to preen hair. If they do get to that cosmetic, they will swallow it and that's a no no or if you use nothing on your hair there's a good chance that the bird will pull at your hair constantly. Another thing about the shoulder is that when it comes time that you don't want him there, they will give you a struggle when you try to catch him to take him off. Never let a parrot stay in an area where you can't see him. They'll race over to the other shoulder and they might bite if you persist. It's not a good idea to ever let your bird used to staying on your shoulder especially if he's showing small desires to pull on your skin. Eventually, it'll be another part of your facial area or your clothing or the top of the chair you happen to be sitting on. There's just too many pictures of people walking around with birds on their shoulders but was isn't said is that those birds never showed any desire to bite or nibble the person who's carrying him around. Your bird is already showing that desire and it's not possible to train your bird to NOT BITE. It's their nature to bite at whatever appeals to them. This type of habit gets more serious as the bird gets older and more sure of itself. By the way, the biting problem isn't unusual. Loads of peopl;e have gone through your problem and the best way to stop it is to take all items of temptation away from the bird. Some birds remain uninterested in shoulders and other body parts and others are very interested If your bird is one that's interested in biting when on the shoulder, that should be the permaent end of letting him on your shoulder. Many people here can tell you about their bad experiences with the same problem.---Dave

 

PS---the bird isn't a terrorist. He's just being a parrot who happens to be intrerested in shoulders. There's nothing you can do to change that habit except keeping him off your shoulders permanently.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Dave007

[monax]

Dan and Dave - thanks for your quick response and insight. It is definitely a frustrating power struggle right now.

 

Dave - Most of his biting happens when he's on my hand or arm. He does try to climb to my shoulder but I remove him immediately. We wanted to make the shoulder off limits, but unfortunately we boarded him at the vet early on and when he came back to us, we found out that the vet techs had essentially trained him to ride around on their shoulders. They are in for a shock next time they try that. :-)

 

My only recourse right now is to incarcerate him every time he attacks. I'd rather reward him for good behavior, but that's few and far between right now.

[Muse]

Wow. Hearing stories like this, I realize how lucky I have been with my two. The terrible twos were extremely mild here, I guess. Although Mar had a bout of similar behaviour but it was linked to his hormonal actions. I was not expecting this because everything I had read says they mature much later. At about a year and a half old, he began to do what I call the "humpty dance" for Megan. I'd seen this with a particularly oversexed adult bird who was on consignment at the bird store so I knew what he was trying to do. It's adorable, and he sounds like a whining puppy begging, but he got very persistent with it. He also got defensive over Megan and began to bite my husband to whom she is very bonded. Hard. And apparently out of the blue, though later we reconstructed some of the incidents and realized they were precipitated by actions of affection between my husband and Megan. Mar may not know how to say "revenge" but he evidently understands the concept. Once the "humpty dance" went away (thankfully after only a few weeks!) so did all the other behaviours. Megan is inherently stubborn (a mark of the intelligence, I suspect) but never went through anything other than her behaviour improving with age and lots of work and patience.

 

He was only "rough" with me a couple of times. I have to say, he's only really bit me maybe three times in almost three years - one a panic-bite and two protest bites during his stubborn phase (what I called the terrible twos but it was mercifully short). This coincided with the flights coming in so I blamed it on the new found sense of independence. He decided he was NOT going to go back and he was going to show me what happens when trying to put him back. I showed him that I am more stubborn than he is, and I started doing the same thing with him that I do with Auna when she must go back (bedtime, leaving for work) - I hold out a step-up stick. He has learned that no matter how hard he bit that stick, he still ended up going back. Once he realized he couldn't win by biting, it stopped. I guess I have just been really lucky. And all bites to me were fingers. He has bit my husband on the ear. My ears are covered with long hair, so maybe he just doesn't know they are there.

 

As for shiny, I found that out the day we met. He LOVED my glasses! Pulled them off my face several times. Once we spoke to the breeder and put the money down on him, I began to firmly redirect him with a stern "No, that's not yours!" using "the mommy voice." The breeder laughed and said "Yeah, well, good luck with that." A few minutes later, Mar was leaving my glasses alone. He's a smart bird. He's one of the few I can usually "remote control" with the mommy voice. If I see him doing something and I tell him to stop, he usually does. I don't wear jewelry, but after work I typically came in wearing a badge lanyard and sometimes a stethoscope. He investigated both, but all it took was a "That's not yours" and he no longer bothered them either. I have been so blessed with good birds so far!

 

He's almost three. Maybe he got hormones and terrible twos mixed and did the hormones early and will do the terrible twos late. I am hoping not. LOL

[monax]

Muse - you're very lucky that your bird actually listens. I've just gotten bitten again, as he was protesting me removing him from my shoulder.

 

I was wondering as well about hormones in Toby's case, but I thought he was too young for that. The other 2 factors are that he's currently molting, and he's recently grown back all flight feathers. We kept him flighted since he clearly loves to fly, but now we're wondering if we've created a monster.

[Inara]

There have been some startling behavioral changes in Toby, our 2-year old TAG in the last few weeks. He's become especially clingy, and simply won't stay on his play stand. He follows us from room to room, intercepts us at the stairs when he sees that we're going upstairs. For the most part, this is pretty charming, except that he can't sit still and constantly flies to me when I'm working at my desk (landing inconveniently on my head or shoulders).

 

Looking back over the past few weeks, can you think of anything that has changed (other than Toby)? Have you been busier than usual, or spending less interactive/physical time with Toby?

 

More troubling is that he has gotten very aggressive about biting. He'll fly to me, and chew on my arm. Then he'll flip upside down and attack my arm or hand repeatedly with hard bites. It's hard not to react when he's doing this as it's incredibly painful. I have no idea if he does this because it's fun for him (attacking his toys while hanging upside down is one of his favorite activities), or he's being territorial, or if something else is bothering him. He also employs this "biting while hanging upside down" maneuver when he resists being put back in his cage.

 

Up until now Toby has been allowed out of his cage for most of the day, but lately I've had to keep him in the cage longer than I'd like because 1) I can't work while he's constantly flying to me, and 2) Trying to get him to step up on his perch or putting him in his cage results in another sequence of aggressive biting.

 

You've indicated that you have to get work done, and that Toby up to now has been allowed a lot of time out of his cage. It's natural, that now he is resistant to going back into his cage more often, because the rules have changed. All he knows is that it was fine before to be out and about all day and now it is not. When something isn't working, go back to something that he and you can do successfully together. Since he's attacking your hand when you want to take him to his cage, go back to "step up" and use a stick and if you have to have him go from the stick to inside of his cage. Be sure to reward him when he's on his stick as well as when he goes back into his cage. If he goes for your hand and shirt when you go to reward him, then start off with verbal praise, give him a second to calm down a bit, then calmly offer a treat. We all would love to have our companions be able to behave without constant reinforcement, but when things are out of whack, it really does help to go back to basics, and re-establish the rapport between the two of you.

 

You might also consider having a cage in your work area, where Toby can hang out with you. Then take periodic "coffee breaks" with him. A great way for the two of you to work on Toby getting used to time in his cage, and going in and out when you expect him/need him to. Setting a daily rhythm for him where he has to have time for independent play is fine for him.

 

I was wondering as well about hormones in Toby's case, but I thought he was too young for that. The other 2 factors are that he's currently molting, and he's recently grown back all flight feathers. We kept him flighted since he clearly loves to fly, but now we're wondering if we've created a monster.

 

You'll get the behaviors that you reward either intentionally or unintentionally. So my vote is always for making your rewards intentional (praise, treats, attention) rather than those unintentional ones (a startled yikes when you've been bitten, etc).

 

Others here will know more than I do about hormones/developmental issues at his stage (my first two birds were much older when they came to me so I'm new to the young bird life myself). So I'm in the same boat with you where that is concerned.

 

I would also echo Dave, for keeping Toby away from those rare body parts that are hard to replace, like ears, eyes, lips, etc. You may want to take a look at which toys he goes Beakazerker on and if there is one or perhaps a couple, cool his jets by removing those toys for awhile, and see if this helps settle his behavior. If the upside down biting, pecking, etc. is reinforced as play, then he's likely to transfer that to other objects, i.e. you until he has more maturity and lessened opportunities for him to do it to you.

 

I'm cheering you on, and hope that some small part of this might be helpful

Edited December 5, 2013 by Inara

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

monax... Terrible twos for sure! You are following an " open cage concept". Thats what I call it. We did as well as we had 24/seven coverage for our grey when two. Not many can do that, since we all work. I LOVE this concept if able to do it, but it is alot of work. Birds need boundaries. Sophie was trimmed when we adopted her at age two, so certainly it was easier, but it took her a decade to learn how to fly great. I believe all babies need to develop their flight muscles, and this happens at your birds level. I also think it encourages confidence. We were lucky that Sophie came here thinking she was a " Goddess!" She STILL is at the age of 13. NOT all birds have the confidence that Sophie had at the age of two. I credit her previous owner. He realized he was too busy to make her a forever home and wanted a family that could care for her 24/7. Always believe " wrist status" only, is very important. There will come a day, when they " get it!" and earn shoulder status. Some do, some dont. You will know. As far as the " twos", when naughty, say a firm " NO!". Many return their bird to cage. I didn't. I put Sophie in a " timeout" cage. Must be spacious, away from their home, and no toys. No more than five minutes. Rest of family must also be consistent. For six months, Sophie found herself in timeout four or five times a day. Within six months... she GOT IT! She was DYING to bite my ear... bit the air instead... she said NO! NO BITE! I did a little dance... screamed to kids! She thought I was crazy! Last ear bite. That was eleven years ago. Now Sophie on my shoulder all the time. Kids as well. Persistence, boundaries set, does pay off! Nancy

[Muse]

Muse - you're very lucky that your bird actually listens. I've just gotten bitten again, as he was protesting me removing him from my shoulder.

 

I was wondering as well about hormones in Toby's case, but I thought he was too young for that. The other 2 factors are that he's currently molting, and he's recently grown back all flight feathers. We kept him flighted since he clearly loves to fly, but now we're wondering if we've created a monster.

 

I am sorry you are getting bitten. I hate bites and do all I can to avoid them. I know how frustrated you must be.

 

As I said, Mar did his first "humpty dance" at about a year and a half old. His first real hormonal outburst was over this past summer (he was two and a half). That's when he got downright vicious with Daddy (who was and now again is his MOST favored person). He got a couple of nasty bites to the point where he was using only a step-up stick to get him off the shoulder, and doing his best to not let him up there in the first place. I suspect they may not be of breeding age, but they still have those hormonal fluctuations, earlier than what most sources claim. I am not a scientist, but I do know what I have witnessed, and it was definitely an early showing of hormones here. Whatever is causing yours, I hope it is a phase and your baby settles down. Mar came out of the hormones and is back to being all sweetness and light. One of these days I will have to catch Daddy, Mar and Meg at playtime. The bonds they have are amazing. At times I am a little jealous. But someone has to ride herd here, and by default of sheer personality, that would be me. Daddy's a marshmallow, LOL.

[Muse]

Great post, Nancy, and great advice.

[Brat Birds]

A small thing to try is giving him a reward when he does go into his cage without biting. I tried this and now my two go back into their cages on command - OK sometimes it takes telling them 2 or 3 times, but this is better then getting bit in the attempt. I use a small piece of almond because it is one of their favorites.

I allow Peanut on my shoulder when I am at the computer because if he is on my hand I can be sure of a bite!

[judygram]

I count myself really lucky in that I have never been really bitten, I mean a hard bite that brings blood by Josey and she goes in her cage when I want her to and I never have a problem getting her into her cage at bedtime, usually she is already there at her cage or in it when bedtime comes unless she has gone over to spend some time with my hubby as she has done lately.

[Steve 2]

I agree with everything Inara mentioned. Especially the part where time in the cage in the same area you are as being therapeutic. Toulouse (my TAG) is not YET good with my son/wife as far as close contact. But in the cage he is comfortable with both. I let Toulouse out when I know I can deal with behaviors, this is still on a daily basis. He has usually been good staying on his play stand but every now and then he insists on being with me which is fine but then he tends to bite at ears and glasses. Toulouse is approximately 1 1/2 years old. My favorite time with him is late in the evening when he wants to have skitches and will sit on my lap quietly. I think this strengthens our bond. The proof I think is that when his cage was moved to the family room Toulouse was comfortable with my wife talking with him and dressing our Christmas tree. And Mary is not a quiet person! Lovable though. Steve

[monax]

Thanks Inara. Actually, Toby lives in my home office. His main cage is 3 feet away from my desk, and his play stand is also nearby. He's been content to sit on the play top and gibber away. Now though, he takes every opportunity to fly and land on my head. :-) On the whole, he's been a joy to have around and always has useful commentary for my conference calls (e.g., "bite me" and "whatever!" are among two of his favorite words). The one change is that dad isn't around as much due to work schedules, and perhaps he misses having his full flock around. I've been lucky to be the favored person for most of his life, but it's also a possibility that he's decided to change allegiance.

 

Thanks again for all the great advice.

[Sassy]

Neytiri is entering her terrible twos. She's getting rather feisty. She give me little nips when I'm paying attention to the squeak squad (the caiques) prob because she's jealous. I taught her "gentle" early on and that seems to help.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

taking care of terrible two"s, and committing 100%, can make a real difference in your birds behavior down the road. Six months here for commitment. Now, I have two teenagers and two birds, two dogs, that care about me. Being injured..... they all go to extremes to help me. Nancy