Keira's wing clipping

[Guest]

Hi everyone, when my baby grey came to me her wings were clipped but I noticed that the vet who did the clipping left the first 3 primary flight feathers. It really looks weird and is this how its supposed to be clipped? Does anyone know why they would leave these feathers but then clip the rest? Also he clipped a few and then left one, clipped a few then left another one

[danmcq]

Some Avian vets do this as well as some breeders. It is mainly done to have the look of not being clipped by having those first 2 or three primaries unclipped. By clipping the 3 or 4 of the inner primaries, they accomplish the same lift reduction so the bird cannot fly other than at a say 45 degree angle down to the floor for a gentle landing rather than a hard crash.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Sounds to me, your vet knew what he was doing! Which means.... the vet can trim so your bird can fly. I think it is important for babies to develop flighted feathers and chest muscles.If you ignore this opportunity to learn to fly, it may take years for bird to learn to fly, as it did Sophie. New babies need to learn how to fly, and should practice with two family members. One to send off... the other to receive. Once babies get into " terrible twos", I believe in trimming, meaning bird can still fly, but are more limited. It takes an awesome trimmer, to understand what you are asking for.It is very important to work closely with your trimmer, as to what your goals and expectations are. If you don't handle this stage well, you may find yourself with a biting, nippy bird. Nancy

[chezron]

All of my birds fly. None are clipped. My African Grey, especially, loves to fly and is so proud of himself for achieving difficult maneuvers. I cannot stress enough how important it is to allow your grey to master flying as it allows him to develop a deep self confidence that carries into the rest of his life. Birds that don't develop flying skills can be neurotic and fearful. My birds love to fly and I love that they love to fly. They are birds, they are supposed to fly. Their whole physiology is geared toward flight: their brains, musculature, skeleton, feathers- everything! I believe it is cruel to take this innate gift away from them and treat them like a cat or a dog.

[Mistyparrot]

Sounds to me, your vet knew what he was doing! Which means.... the vet can trim so your bird can fly. I think it is important for babies to develop flighted feathers and chest muscles.If you ignore this opportunity to learn to fly, it may take years for bird to learn to fly, as it did Sophie. New babies need to learn how to fly, and should practice with two family members. One to send off... the other to receive. Once babies get into " terrible twos", I believe in trimming, meaning bird can still fly, but are more limited. It takes an awesome trimmer, to understand what you are asking for.It is very important to work closely with your trimmer, as to what your goals and expectations are. If you don't handle this stage well, you may find yourself with a biting, nippy bird. Nancy

 

I have to disagree. The vet did something both pointless and potentially dangerous to the poor young Grey. He should have left the birds wings well alone unless there was a sound medical reason and I cannot think of one that would require a healthy sighted Grey to need any kind of clip. Sarah, I hope you let Keira's flights grow back. Make sure she is micro chipped and be vigilant especially with doors and windows.

 

Steve n Misty

[SRSeedBurners]

Interesting comment I read that will always stick with me - "it's almost unheard of for a flighted Grey to pluck". I think it was Ray or Dan. I hope it's true. I've had a plucking Grey, it's not pretty. I love my feathered baby.

[Guest]

Thanks everyone, could these first 3 primaries break or get damaged while she's climbing around?

[judygram]

Yes Sarah they could especially if they play hard as some do or it could happen if they were spooked and they flapped around in their cage. I do hope you will consider allowing Keira's wings to grow out and leave her flighted for they are a more confident bird when they are allowed the freedom of flight. All three of my birds are flighted though only one flies regularly every day, the other two were initially clipped then I allowed them to grow out and they only fly when spooked or at as a last resort.

[Luvparrots]

My three are all great flyers. My greys were clipped as weaned babies by their breeders and my zon has never been clipped. To me there is nothing more beautiful than the sound of flapping wings when my birdies come looking for me or when I call them and they come zooming in for a treat. Priceless.

 

My canary is also flighted and comes out of his cage daily and goes back in for food or sleeping. He is separate from the parrots because Ana Grey would eat him alive if she could.

[JeffNOK]

A few months ago Gracie started to exhibit some terrible-twos tendencies. I noticed that she would bite me after I had her step up to move her somewhere. She is fully flighted, but we had a routine of me moving her to her playstand, or back to her cage, or on to her travel cage where she ate etc. My mother gave me some advice. She said that when my brother and I were in our terrible twos, we would often throw fits when she would try to do things for us. We would say "I do by myself!". She told me that perhaps Gracie was expressing the same sentiment. So, I used a more hands-off approach. Unless necessary, I let her go where she wanted, when she wanted, and by her own means. This of course required flying. Even when she got herself into a jam (like landing on the floor, or perching somewhere she wasn't supposed to be), I tried to let her solve the problem herself unless she made it clear she wanted my help. Almost overnight her whole attitude changed. She seemed really happy and no longer gave me any attitude. She seems to have more confidence and independence. The issue with clipping/trimming, is that I'm afraid this would result in more dependence with a resulting loss of confidence. Gracie is open to new things and people because I think she knows she has the power to make choices and get away from situations she finds uncomfortable. Without full flight, that would not be the case. Of course I am only sharing my personal experience with one single grey, but I do believe that there is something about flight that is essential for the psychological health of an African Grey.

Edited October 19, 2013 by JeffNOK

[Talon]

Great advice! I too believe there is never a good reason to clip at all. In my mind and I'm never going to change my opinion, it is like cutting off a humans legs!

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I understand what everyone has said. I believe in full flight, developing muscles, confidence. Once in terrible twos and out of control, I dont have an issue for parents to " trim back!" Meaning....birds can still fly quite well, but have to land ocassionally. I don't agree that birds that can be full flighted, don't chew their feathers. Do your own research. Many that chew their feathers, can fly.

What I DO believe in, is having an " open cage". Their doors are never closed, they have jungle gyms galore. My birds have their own room. I have NEVER had a bird chew their feathers, and I believe it is because their doors have never been closed or locked! I wouldn't have birds if I couldn't deliver on the " open cage concept." A LOT of work"... kids were committed, and it worked for us. Nancy

[JeffNOK]

Feather picking can happen with both clipped/trimmed and unclipped/untrimmed parrots. The issues are complex and no one thing is at the root. Nancy, I respect your position. As I said, I have only worked with Gracie and her terrible twos seemed to come and go over the course of a week. That isn't to say they couldn't return, however (fingers crossed). For Gracie, flight has only ever been a positive thing. But, there are some cases where trimming may help in the case of an out of control grey.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

We all have different beliefs. That is a GOOD thing. How we get to the goal of a bird to fly well, is the ultimate goal. We want them happy, socialized, accepting of other birds and family. Obtaining that goal, depends on the parrent and what works for you. Nancy

[Inara]

Both of my first birds came to me unclipped and plucked nearly to death (seriously!!). An Amazon, and a CAG. After my 'zon's feathers finally came back in, I had my vet (who was a falconer) clip him because I lived in a huge old Victorian home with lots of high ceilings and antique woodwork, and I rented. Elliot, did not have a cage, he had a huge natural branch that I had made into a perch by drilling a circular hole into an old coffee table, because he was terrified of cages. He was clipped where he could still fly easily to the ground, or in a horizontal line. As traumatized, terrified, bald, screechy and threatening as he was when he first came to live with me, he developed into a very loving, relaxed, secure, and healthy companion who never again plucked.

 

Lestat, my CAG was in the same shape that Elliot was when I got him. I did not have the vet clip him as I lived in a different home, and he was not interested in flying anywhere but to the ground. Because I had both a cat and a sighthound, his cage door was shut when he was in it. He too, developed into a well adjusted, healthy, fully feathered non-plucking bird.

 

Even though my current home (which I own) has 14 ft ceilings, and in one portion has a bank of windows that spans two complete stories, I have opted not to have Inara's wings clipped. I don't have ceiling fans, and when she is out and about on her mobile perch, I shut the solar shades down just to be on the safe side because if she ever hit one of those windows she could fall over an entire story. She currently will flutter to the ground if she is perched on me and something startles her (like my dog baying, or other unexpected loud noise). She shows no real interest in flying, but will do the super flap wings on her perch and has room to do so in her cage for exercise when she is on her lower perches.

 

If there ever comes a time when I believe that free flight would put Inara in major danger, I will re-evaluate after ensuring that all other avenues have been exhausted. I close her cage door when she is in it, because I have a sighthound, and it would be unfair to either Inara or to Dezi to ever leave an opportunity for tragedy. When Inara is out on her mobile perch, I am always supervising both her and Dez. If I have to be pre-occupied, Dezi goes into her crate, or Inara goes back to her home. They are both doing really well with one another, however, instincts are instincts and it can only take a few seconds no matter how mellow Dezi is. Inara is very well adjusted and her Avian Vet with whom we had our first visit Saturday, remarked at how relaxed and healthy she is.

 

If clipping is just to make life more convenient, I'm not an advocate. I feel, however, that it is never my place to judge someone else in what/how they feel ensures their own companion's safety. There are several counter-arguments for either side, and different circumstances can require different approaches. To me, what is most important is that with so many birds being warehoused in rescue facilities, that secure, loving, patient, homes are the priority. If it boils down to a clip or a bird being passed along to yet another home or rescue facility, then to me it's the lesser of the issue. Most parrots in rescue have been passed through an average of about 8+ homes before being warehoused. Is flighted ideal? Yes. Does life always provide for it? Sometimes not.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Inara

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Excellent post! Sophie, whom now is fully flighted, but took a long time to figure it out, now at age 13 can choose to walk...( there are no threats for her), or fly. She chooses! She rules our animal kingdom, and she knows it. If she chooses to walk... she greets the pups with kisses and instructions... " time to go out Zoey and Ollie!". Of course I have to let them out as they run for the door. I keep all medications in my purse in my car, as Sophie will rummage thru it. Zoey LOVES lipstick, so Sophie will find it in my purse and throw it down to zoey. " Here you go zoey!" I come running! Now I keep my lipstick in my car, but Zoey loves chapstick too! When I hear " here you go zoey", I come running! I know they are all " in it together", but I am okay with that. They all watch out for each other, and I have to be a step ahead of all my beasts! Nancy

[harmar]

I seem to have to clip Sasha every once in a while.. Sasha gets a huge attitude problem, I try and resolve it but he gets mad, biting, wrecking things. I then clip him and immediately (like within 5 minutes of being clipped) he turns into the a perfect angel and stays that way. I will then let his feathers come in again to be fully flighted and he is fine for a couple months, but then his attitude returns.. So I just repeat the process. I guess when he is clipped he knows he is dependent on me, but I am guessing when he is fully flighted he think he is independent and can do what he wants.

However, after each cycle it does seem like it takes longer and longer for his bad attitude to return.. first time I had to clip him after 3 months fully flighted, 2nd time after 5 months. Right now he is fully flighted but I see his attitude returning and probably going to clip him again, this third cycle he has been fully flighted for about 6 months. He is still young so hoping maybe he will be better as he ages.

I have tried all sort of discipline trying to get him to stop. I tried ignoring his behavior (has negative effect), distraction (does nothing), engagement(usually end up being bit), being stern(works a bit but only temporarily).. The only thing that is even somewhat effective is time outs in his cage.. He whistles and whistles wanting to get out, I just ignore them, then after 20-30 minutes ill let him out, and then seems to be a bit more behaved for rest of the evening, but next day back to his old self.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

As a beliver in " trimming"... please listen. A trimming, is NOT a clipping! All new birds need to learn how to fly. Develop chest muscles. When they get to terrible two's, trim back a bit. Sophie could fly, but not crazy! Her trimmer knew what my expectations were. We identified, that since she was adopted at age two, she hadnt developed her flight muscles. We made a plan for her....develop her chest muscles and work with her.We did. We have had a close relationship for a decade. A decade later, Sophie is flying well, LOVES the entire family. I continue to work closely with Sophie's trimmer. It doesn't mean he has trimmed her... he hasn't. A GREAT trimmer... is also an expert in getting a bird to fly! Nancy