Test results are in!

[Cinnyminis]

The vet ran a panel for 4 different viruses on Echo. All were negative, except for one. He tested positive for bornavirus. The vet said that 80% of birds test positive for that and are asymptomatic carriers. She said she is not that concerned at the moment, but since it can cause immunosuppression, that likely led to a bacterial infection in Echo. She said that as long as his stools are normal and not undigested, he should be fine, and that if something changes and we catch it early, it's treatable.

I am waiting to hear back from her over the lack of eating though. He is really demanding formula ALL DAY LONG, and has pretty much stopped eating his pellets as much as he was before. (Roudybush mixed with supreme, mixed with Harrison's and sunshine factor). My son is buying a scale right now so I can get daily weights on Echo.

The tech said she thinks it sounds like Echo is being a stubborn three year old who prefers the formula to the other food, and if he gets hungry enough, he will eat.

 

So, the question here is.... what shall I tell the breeder? He likely got bornavirus from her aviary. Do I just chalk all of this up to inexperience in hand feeding on my part? I have definitely learned my lesson on unweaned babies. Should I stop worrying so much about it all? I feel like a nervous mommy and I am grateful that I at least have a place I can ask these questions. I appreciate this community!

Beth

[SRSeedBurners]

I have a couple of comments/questions about some of your statements:

- "if something changes and we catch it early, it's treatable". Was that in direct reference to PDD? I don't believe PDD is treatable in the sense of curable. Once they 'get it', they will eventually die from it. Remission can go on for a while but eventually they start to go downhill.

- "it can cause immunosuppression". Was that also referring to the bornavirus? My understanding and my experience (n=1) is that immunosuppression is what can lead to the PDD becoming onset. Then it becomes a situation where the immune response goes into uncontrollable overdrive thereby destroying certain nervous system elements.

 

All the other stuff you mentioned about PDD is what we've heard and I've dug up about the bornavirus. As for the test, I bet I would test positive for the bornavirus - that's how good that test is (not).

 

We've been dealing with PDD for nearly 6 months and have sunk over $3k fighting it and we're close to losing the battle completely.

 

As for your breeder - I would chalk it up to a bad deal. Others may disagree but I would put their reputation out there so others can avoid. I specifically went and found a breeder that had a known reputation for not releasing babies until fully flegded, abundance weaned, her place is tested etc..etc..etc.. There was another breeder right next door that sounds like the one you dealt with. I avoided her like the plague and she was a lot cheaper.

 

The best you can do is stop worrying and just keep weighing and watching that poop. We are addicted to our weight scale and anytime we see an out-of-ordinary poop we both get startled by it.

[danmcq]

In regards the Bornavirus in Parrots. Here is some good information for you. First, your baby grey came to you with that virus. So it was not anything you did and you should not feel bad. Your vet is the expert on this, not me. If you feel confident your much loved baby grey is doing better and is at least on the mend, go with your heart. Here is the article I am partially quoting:

 

How Do Parrots Become Exposed To This Disease ? How Infectious Is It ?

 

Not enough time has passed since the discovery of the virus for veterinarians to work that out with any certainty. The bornavirus is not very stable in the environment – so close contact between an infected and an uninfected bird is probably required. As with all infectious virus that are present in stool and oral secretions, the more parrots are confined to a relatively small area, the poorer the sanitation and the higher the stress level, the more spread of infection is likely to take place. Both the fecal and the urine portion of a parrots stool can contain the virus. But the history of avian bornavirus in parrots tells us that much more than exposure to the virus is required for a bird to become physically ill. It is well known that many parrots kept in close contact with a known ABV/PDD bird never become ill.

 

Complicating our understanding of how this virus moves between birds is the fact that very long periods of time can pass (years) between the time the parrot is exposed to bornavirus and the time it becomes ill. That could easily explain why ABV/PDD can occur in a parrot whose nutrition and environment is now superb and why long periods can pass in an aviary with no new cases, only to have one appears years down the road.

So the mystery is more likely about how individual birds’ immune system reacts to infection than how infectious the virus itself is. That seems to be the case with the borna virus of mammals as well – lots of animals are exposed to the virus (about 60%) but only a few (5%) of those get ill.

 

Although most veterinarians believe that avian bornavirus probably moves from bird to bird through ingestion or inhalation of droppings or saliva of adjoining parrots that carry the virus, there is evidence that it might be transferred (vertically) from an infected female to its offspring thought through the egg as well. There are also veterinarians who believe that the strain of bornavirus that the bird encounters is important in determining how severe a disease will develop.

[danmcq]

Oh jesus Sterling, I am hoping and praying for the best outcome for your grey. Your answer is very good because it is coming from a person living that nightmare right now. We must have both been typing at the same overlapping time period.

[SRSeedBurners]

Thanks Dan - our Grey is 'exposed' but showing no signs. Our little Jardines who came out of a filthy disgusting 'rescue' is the one that has PDD. And I say has 'PDD' in a loose sense as 4 different vets can give us no straight answer as to what we're dealing with. But signs and symptoms are pointing to PDD. It's heart breaking because of all the birds I've had, she's top of the list of the sweetest darling lil birdy I've ever encountered. She's not gone yet and I'm already having trouble looking at pics of her and we cry about her nearly daily. It sucks. She's my wife's bird but she's very dear to my heart too.

 

We're really kicking ourselves because everything was fine until we introduced Greycie. Greycie is so aggressive that my wife didn't realize she was keeping 'Raven' from her food all day long and I'm 100% sure that 'Raven' started to go hungry and that led to her immune system starting to get depressed and then the damn virus got hold. Part of why I asked the question above. There was a point where 'Raven' started begging and we both couldn't figure out what she wanted until it was too late. We caught it early but that just means we've gotten to hold onto her a little while longer but there's no stopping it now.

Edited August 30, 2013 by SterlingSL

[danmcq]

Oh that is heartbreaking Sterling. Words cannot provide much comfort, but I and I am sure others here have dealt with the sickness and then eventual death of a much loved bird, dog, cat and it is always like losing a birthed child. The most important thing to me, is that your Jardine is in the best place this could have occurred at surrounded by pure unconditional love. Bless you both.

[Joyvke]

PDD is not treatable and in most cases ends up bad news. I'm feeling really sorry for you. On the workshop I had last week they said pellets is the better option for PDD birds as the digestion of it will go better than with seeds. They actually made a fund with the bird vets over here to do research and see if they can make a vaccination or something as well I believe. I can only hope your Echo will be able to live a long and happy life, but keep in mind he can infect other birds you may have or will get in the future as well. The shitty thing bout virusses . Take care.

 

You as well Sterling, really hope she will get a kick off regarding her immunesystem and getting back on track. Wishing you and your birdie well xx.

[katana600]

We have been there with PDD. The new tests are controversial. Your vet will be the one to know the details and will lead you in the best care. This is a "pre-indicator" not a diagnosis, so there is reason for hope. Hand feeding is not a cause at all of acquiring this virus. Ours came with it from the breeder and she shut down her breeders but its unclear where her flock went. It's such a difficult disease to diagnose. They can take biopsy after biopsy by guessing where a lesion may exist, and they can get many negative tests which only means they did not find a positive lesion, it is not a clear sign that the bird is disease free. So, keep open minded and ask your vet for literature to explain the bornavirus connection. The clinical signs are more likely to cause alarm. It will take some time to sort through this one. I wish I had answers but just have more questions as I keep up with the research on PDD.

[Cinnyminis]

So, I am wondering if I should enter into conversation with the breeder about the bornavirus? Is this something I should pursue with her?

Beth

[Timbersmom]

I certainly would. I have nothing to contribute to this thread (except my sympathy and prayers), but I would inform the breeder of ANY finding that might affect her other birds. From what I'm reading here, it is hard to say where it came from or if it is really there (because of your comment from the vet about positive tests). If I were the breeder, I'd certainly want to know about the possibility. If the breeder is unscrupulous, if won't matter to her, but if she is honest, she'll want to "be advised."

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Absolutely! It broke my heart reading all the texts Nancy