DogsBirdsFish Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Since Emma moved in ten weeks ago, life has been wonderful but crazy. During the first few days, she shed lots of white down feathers. That settled down for a couple weeks; then the grey/red feather molt began. I have a bag of at least 50 feathers of all shape and sizes. They include five large wing feathers, six red tail feathers, and the rest are of various sizes. I was fairly sure she wasn't plucking her feathers as they were not chewed up, and at times, some would fall out while I was petting her. The molting went on for over eight weeks. Then she started scratching in the bottom corner of her cage. I did an internet search and most every response was that was normal foraging behavior. About four weeks ago, work started on our kitchen remodeling project. She seemed to enjoy watching the plumber, electrician, and cabinet installers; even when they were working just a few feet from her. She didn't seem to be bothered by the occasional loud noises. Well she kept on molting and scratching in the corner. The day before I left her alone for my family reunion, she shed (pulled) at least 50 white down feathers. I had no idea she had that many, and afterwards, she didn't look any more rattier than she has been with all the pin feathers coming in. I was really worried about her, and almost didn't go to the reunion (I am the only family member who moved away from the family compound, so I am kind of the one everyone wants to see). Well I left the party early, and when I came home, she was sitting in the corner. I immediately suspected the worse and really regretted leaving her alone. However, when she got up to see me, there was an egg on the floor........ I don't know if the egg is fertilized. The only info I have is she was dropped off with a male Goffin. So now I am worried that she may be upset when the egg doesn't hatch. Every few hours she gets off the egg, leaves the cage, and comes over to me for petting and kissing. I try to keep our sessions short and get her back on the egg just in case. She laid the egg Sunday, so it has been three days. I need a vacation...... Edited August 30, 2013 by DogsBirdsFish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogsBirdsFish Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 Just got back from the fitness center; Emma has two eggs! Should I add something to the cage so she can build a proper nest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbersmom Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I have no answers because I have no experience with egg laying. Someone will come along with advice though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Just got back from the fitness center; Emma has two eggs! Should I add something to the cage so she can build a proper nest? Do not provide her with a proper nest as you do not want to encourage her to lay any more eggs as it will deplete her calcium levels. Thats why she was pulling out feathers to line her nest with. Just let her sit on her eggs and in a couple of weeks you can remove them and by the way they are not fertile eggs so they won't hatch out. There are some threads here that deal with females laying eggs and how to discourage that behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Judy is spot on. You should ensure she is getting calcium rich foods to maintain proper levels while laying eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Since Emma moved in ten weeks ago, life has been wonderful but crazy. During the first few days, she shed lots of white down feathers. That settled down for a couple weeks; then the grey/red feather molt began. I have a bag of at least 50 feathers of all shape and sizes. They include five large wing feathers, six red tail feathers, and the rest are of various sizes. I was fairly sure she wasn't plucking her feathers as they were not chewed up, and at times, some would fall out while I was petting her. The molting went on for over eight weeks. Then she started scratching in the bottom corner of her cage. I did an internet search and most every response was that was normal foraging behavior. About four weeks ago, work started on our kitchen remodeling project. She seemed to enjoy watching the plumber, electrician, and cabinet installers; even when they were working just a few feet from her. She didn't seem to be bothered by the occasional loud noises. Well she kept on molting and scratching in the corner. The day before I left her alone for my family reunion, she shed (pulled) at least 50 white down feathers. I had no idea she had that many, and afterwards, she didn't look any more rattier than she has been with all the pin feathers coming in. I was really worried about her, and almost didn't go to the reunion (I am the only family member who moved away from the family compound, so I am kind of the one everyone wants to see). Well I left the party early, and when I came home, she was sitting in the corner. I immediately suspected the worse and really regretted leaving her alone. However, when she got up to see me, there was an egg on the floor........ I don't know if the egg is fertilized. The only info I have is she was dropped off with a male Goffin. So now I am worried that she may be upset when the egg doesn't hatch. Every few hours she gets off the egg, leaves the cage, and comes over to me for petting and kissing. I try to keep over sessions short and get her back on the egg just in case. She laid the egg Sunday, so it has been three days. I need a vacation...... Ok, let me explain what's happening as best as i can--- 1---Molting---first thing that starts to fall out are the white fluffy base feathers. Usually, they don't look like feathers. just pieces of fluff. 2---Next comes the small grey feathers. They look like feathers but are tiny. A grey has about 400 to 500 of those tiny feathers. 3---Next comes the flight and tail feathers although that doesn't happen to every single grey. Concerning the tail and flight feathers, that's just a coincedence. 4---the body is left with small pin shafts in which the new feathers will come in. The old feathers are being pushed out by the new feathers. So what's going on is normal. The bird looks pretty disheveled---normal Now as far as the eggs --an overactive gland is causinng that to happen. It doesn't happen to all greys. If your bird is ignoring the eggs or just pushing them around, that's good. Don't remove any eggs. After about 20 days she'ss know that they're no good and will totally ignore them. Then you can take them out. Immediately taking an egg out as it appears only makes the bird lay more. It's possible that she'll push out one more egg, possiblely 2 but I don't think so. If it's 4, not to worry. No nests should be given. No special foods should be given. Leave her and the eggs alone. Don't make a big fuss over her. As far as molting goes, that's not an overnight thing. It's takes quite a while until the molting finishes. A new molt will happen againin about 8 to 12 mts As far as the workmen in the house---she may tolerate them but it's not a good idea to have your grey around strange people who're doing things. You really don't know whether something will happen that will scare her. Edited July 25, 2013 by Dave007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogsBirdsFish Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 Ok, let me explain what's happening as best as i can---1---Molting---first thing that starts to fall out are the white fluffy base feathers. Usually, they don't look like feathers. just pieces of fluff. 2---Next comes the small grey feathers. They look like feathers but are tiny. A grey has about 400 to 500 of those tiny feathers. 3---Next comes the flight and tail feathers although that doesn't happen to every single grey. Concerning the tail and flight feathers, that's just a coincedence. 4---the body is left with small pin shafts in which the new feathers will come in. The old feathers are being pushed out by the new feathers. So what's going on is normal. The bird looks pretty disheveled---normal Now as far as the eggs --an overactive gland is causinng that to happen. It doesn't happen to all greys. If your bird is ignoring the eggs or just pushing them around, that's good. Don't remove any eggs. After about 20 days she'ss know that they're no good and will totally ignore them. Then you can take them out. Immediately taking an egg out as it appears only makes the bird lay more. It's possible that she'll push out one more egg, possiblely 2 but I don't think so. If it's 4, not to worry. No nests should be given. No special foods should be given. Leave her and the eggs alone. Don't make a big fuss over her. As far as molting goes, that's not an overnight thing. It's takes quite a while until the molting finishes. A new molt will happen againin about 8 to 12 mts As far as the workmen in the house---she may tolerate them but it's not a good idea to have your grey around strange people who're doing things. You really don't know whether something will happen that will scare her. Thanks for all the information; it really helped me better understand what is happening. We have enough recent stress (water damaged kitchen and sending our son off to a foreign country for a multi-year job assignment) to deal with. BTW - When we came back from JFK airport (wife crying the whole time) Emma had laid a third egg. Poor girl has lost a lot of weight and is pooping massive amounts; she seems to wait until she gets on my shoulder to relieve herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogsBirdsFish Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 She laid another egg today. That is four in 10 days. How do I stop her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) She laid another egg today. That is four in 10 days. How do I stop her? You can go to an avian vet now or you can wait and see if another egg shows up. If so, it's time for the vet. The clochoa will have to be checked. Ps--Remember that I said that it's possible that 4 eggs may come? Understand that we're not vets here and having a connection to an avian vet is always a good idea in case of other issues. Edited July 31, 2013 by Dave007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chezron Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Wow! I have nothing to add but my sympathies because it seems like you have a lot on your plate right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 She has laid 4 eggs, lost weight and pooping large amounts, she needs to be seen by an avian vet and as soon as possible so she can be directed back on the right path, do it then let us know what you find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I agree with avian visit, as they can dehydrate so quickly. I'm so sorry for all the egg laying... it must be so stressful, and nothing I have ever experienced. I as a parent, would also be concerned!I don't know why Sophie has never laid an egg. She is DNA sexed, truly a female. My heart goes out to you. She must be physically exhausted, you must be mentally exhausted! Nancy and Sophie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 She laid another egg today. That is four in 10 days. How do I stop her? So, How about an update. , the bird has laid 4 eggs. Any 5th egg?? Did you decide to visit an vet? Bird back to normal? Lots of info was given so it would be nice to hear what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogsBirdsFish Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) Sorry for the lack of updates; things have been a little chaotic lately. The kitchen rebuild is in full swing. In the past two weeks the cabinets, hard wood floors in the kitchen, family room, and foyer/hall have been installed. In addition the new appliances (refrigerator, dishwasher, range and microwave that we didn’t need but my wife wanted to change the “look”), granite countertop, and additional electrical wiring have been installed. None of this was planned. We had no intention of remodeling the kitchen as the house is relatively new. This all started suddenly a couple days before our annual mega Easter egg hunt and party. So we have been without a kitchen for over three months. My wife and I are in a state of depression (especially my wife) since our son moved to Japan a little over a week ago (we are officially empty nesters and not doing well with the transition). That also was not entirely expected. He applied for the foreign teaching position months ago, but since less than 20% of the applicants are accepted, we figured he wasn’t going to get in especially since he has limited teaching experience. I am trying real hard to perform the general contractor role; coordinating all the sub-contractors for the demolition, kitchen design, electrical upgrades, sheetrock work, cabinets, floors, appliances, and countertop installations. Then dealing with all the things that were installed incorrectly, damaged, or just plan poor workmanship. I still have to get other contractors scheduled for the painting, light fixtures over the island and cabinets, tile backsplash, cabinet knobs, and window treatments. However, thing have come to a standstill since my wife is too depressed to pick out the tile, light fixtures, knobs, etc. I also have my usual pet chores, and like most people, a stressful job. So I am experiencing battle fatigue. I can’t even relax in my home as I have had a steady stream of contractors working around me. So at this time, Emma may be in better shape than anyone else in the house. She laid four eggs (finally stopped). She is eating well and has lots of energy. She is very attentive to her eggs and shows no signs that she will abandon them anytime soon. She has lots of feathers to grow back, as she had a major molt before the eggs were laid, and pulled a bunch of down feathers to make the initial nest when she laid the first egg. Regarding the large poops; I think I figured out the cause. She doesn’t want to poop anywhere near her nest at the bottom of the cage, so she holds it all night. When I let her out first thing in the morning, she climbs up the cage and has a massive poop off the edge (I have paper on the floor at the spot she always goes. Then throughout the day, she makes multiple trips to the top of the cage and poops normal amounts off the edge. BTW – I used to have her get on my shoulder first thing in the morning. After a few of the large poops landed on me, I now wait for her to do her business off the edge of the cage before I pick her up. Her eating habits have changed quite a bit. However, I think I understand some of the reason for the change. She used to eat a variety of fruits and nuts (largely a mix of gourmet foods from Bird Paradise). Now she eats peanuts, pretzels, baked Birdie Munchies, and the occasional apple slice. All the other food is there (including her pre-egg Nutri-Berries and Avi-Cakes treats), but she doesn’t touch them. I didn’t want to force her to eat the other food by withholding her current favorites at this time. I believe she is favoring the peanuts because the shells are the primary nest material. I was pulling the paper and cleaning the bottom of the cage everyday, but I think I was stressing her out. For the past week, I have left the paper and most of peanut shells around her nest. It doesn’t look too bad considering she has not been pooping inside the cage. I also think she is craving protein to fuel her feather re-growth (she has lots of pin feathers). I don’t know any of this for sure as this is all new to me. I read the three popular Grey books I purchased from Amazon, but there is nothing better than experience. Getting back to the unexpected kitchen project; Emma usually needs (demands) up to an hour of my time for one-on-one attention every day. However, I have had very little time lately. The timing of the egg laying has been a blessing. She is so focused on attending to her eggs, that she only has 5-10 minutes of “her” time to spend with me. So it is all working out. I’ll end this long response with a funny story. Monday the electrician walked by Emma’s cage carrying a small ladder. Emma said “What the heck is that”. The electrician stopped dead in his tracks and started to laugh. A few minutes later, she said “Michael” as he passed by her (BTW - that’s his name); so he had another laugh. Edited August 8, 2013 by DogsBirdsFish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 DogsBirdFish... I have dealt with two kids off to college and empty nest syndrome. One in his third year, second child in his second year. I also remodeled my kitchen two years ago. Sophie befriended the contractors as well. They LOVED her and she knew Joe by name.Even the owner told me his employees enjoyed coming here because Sophie was the " talk" amoung his employees. The problem is.... you only have a short period of time in my opinion, to work with Emma. If you miss this opportunity for Emma to be a truly best friend that has the capability to makeup for the kids at college, it won't happen! Kids don't worry about me while off to college. Sophie keeps my hands full.They know that.You both have done an excellent job with your son. I'm sure you are proud of his success! Now.... there is a NEW baby in the house, that needs the same guidance!Don't miss out on the opportunity! They are absolutely amazing! Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogsBirdsFish Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) Would you believe Emma is still sitting on the eggs!!! She laid the first one 40 days ago and the fourth one 30 days ago. The only indication that her commitment to the eggs is diminishing is that she is getting off them every 30 minutes or so and coming over to me. However, she still limits the visits to less than five minutes before she starts to panic a bit and then I have to immediately take her back to them. She is eating like a pig and finally starting to eat something other than just peanuts and salt free pretzels. She continues to poop over the side of the cage, so the bottom of the cage (where the eggs are) has been poop free for a month. The molting slowed up to a feather or two a day for a couple weeks. This past week she has shed none...thank goodness!!! BTW - Kitchen remodeling is about 90% complete. Just need the back splash tile, island and under-counter lights, and cabinet trim installed. Emma has to endure the noise of the electrician working next to her (while he installs the power in the basement below the kitchen) for just one more day. Edited August 30, 2013 by DogsBirdsFish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 You're encouraging the bird to constantly sit on the eggs. ****However, she still limits the visits to less than five minutes before she starts to panic a bit and then I have to immediately take her back to them.***** You shouldn't be putting her back on the eggs. No one ever told you to do that. 30 days is a complete cycle. Start taking an egg out every other day. Take that nesting material out of the cage. 30 days have passed and you're not allowing her to lose interest in the eggs. The only egg she's interested in right now is the last one she laid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 DogsBirdFish What a stressful month for you! Hope all is going well with Emma and new kitchen. It will all come to an end soon. You will have a new kitchen, and Emma will be done with the egg issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogsBirdsFish Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 You're encouraging the bird to constantly sit on the eggs. ****However, she still limits the visits to less than five minutes before she starts to panic a bit and then I have to immediately take her back to them.*****You shouldn't be putting her back on the eggs. No one ever told you to do that. 30 days is a complete cycle. Start taking an egg out every other day. Take that nesting material out of the cage. 30 days have passed and you're not allowing her to lose interest in the eggs. The only egg she's interested in right now is the last one she laid. Regarding the 5 minute visits; when she gets worried about getting back to her eggs, I take her over to the top of the cage, not directly to the eggs. I learned the hard way when the first couple times she attempted to fly back to the cage, and because she recently molted 5 flight feathers, she crashed into the cage. So for her own safety, I carry her over to the cage when she starts to panic and flap her wings. I had read other posts where I believed the Grey would just automatically give up on the eggs around 20 days after laying them. I didn't realize I had to actually remove them myself. In either case, I just removed the peanut shell/feather material from the bottom of the cage. She fluff up her feathers, and I can tell she was torn between being her sweet self and the instinct to defend her eggs. Fortunately I was able to get most all the nesting stuff out without getting bitten. I just couldn't bring myself to take one of her precious eggs from her; especially since she is being an overachiever when it comes to egg sitting. So when I put fresh paper in her cage, I slid it under three eggs and covered up one. She immediately pulled the three eggs under her; so for a minute I thought I had succeeded in separating her from an egg. But after a minute, she got off her eggs and went searching for the missing one. She found it, had a little trouble getting it out from under the paper, and then moved it over to the other three. So I'm back to square one. I really would prefer that she give up on them when she is ready rather than me taking them from her. We have such a good trusting relationship; I feel like I'm betraying her. I guess I'm just not cut out for this tough love situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) Well, you've been told how to handle this problem. I never said anything about 20 days. I said 30 which is a full cycle. You're not into doing the right thing for a bird that's had an abnormal situation. You're messing up the bird's internal system. I told you to take out 1 egg every couple of days because she won't notice that one is gone. The eggs aren't precious. They're simply infertile eggs. You would prefer her to give up on them rather than you taking them away? Well, not every bird is the same. Some will give up on them and others won't. That's where you come in. A good trusting relationship has nothing to do with this problem. Why am I being so blunt about this? Well, this is a Health problem, not a Grey Lounge subject and if you really care about your bird, you should do the right thing by your bird even if your bird has a temporary lousy attitude. I'm surprised that you haven't figured out that what she's doing now comes into the category of abnormal. Other people in this thread have already told you that what's going on is very abnormal. Some have even suggested a vet visit. Some have spoken about possible problems arising from this Edited August 31, 2013 by Dave007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 You will be betraying her more if you leave the eggs for her to get disinterested in since she has shown no signs of doing so, Dave knows his stuff as he is a breeder of greys and a pet grey lover so trust his advice. I know tough love is difficult but sometimes its necessary for the well being of the animal or human it involves. My grey is 7 1/2 years old and she has never laid any eggs but she did act different one day when browsing underneath her cage as she does occasionally she would come out at me all puffed up and charge at me to bite when I came close, I found there was a small whiffle ball about the size of a golf ball under the cage and I guess she was either being possessive of it or was protecting it as if it was an egg. I promptly got it out using a long stick and took it away from her, end of problem as she went back to being her old self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 It is tough being the bad guy. I have been in that role for past 22 years! LOL! BUT....sometimes we have to do, what we have to do! Take Dave's advice. He is the expert. Don't think that doing what is best for your baby will affect your relationship. Keeping them safe and healthy is always the first priority.They will recognize in the near future you are only concerned for their well being. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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