Is your grey manipulative and a liar?

[danmcq]

Some members have been posting about their greys using language to pull them in to do something normal like bedtime, give a treat or other such thing. Then as the gullible loving parront they are complies their sweethearts request and once they get within striking range are bitten.

 

Greys are the masters of deception with their poker faces, sweet talking and lighting fast reflexes. We are of course upset, hurt feelings etc. and scratching our heads wondering why the hell that just happened. Well because it's big fun to the grey. It could also be because you slighted them in some way or it's a time like night-night and they do not want to go in their cage or you have been ignoring while you work etc. .. It could just be they are looking for some entertainment.

 

With that said, here is a video from about 4 years ago of Dayo buttering up Jake hoping to nail him if he can successfully dupe Jake in to believing his smooth moves and phrases. You will learn over time how and when these fake requests take place and to be more cautious should you decide to see IF thats truly what they want.

 

Edited July 18, 2013 by danmcq

[katana600]

Good that Jake is quick on the wing and he is wise to Dayo. He sure sounds like he wants Jake to be his friend and to console him with "what's the matter Jake?". When our dogs were just small puppies, we had Kopi. He took great pleasure in flinging out a morsel of Harrison's and when the pups would come to investigate their treat he would splash water on them and scream the pterodactyl war whoop. They were so scared of him. They would run to my bedroom and hide under the bed. A little while later we would hear "Come here puppy. It's okay. Come on, come on. Wanna go outside?" He would say it sooo sweet and gentle and sure enough, if they came close he was splashing water and scaring the little fellows again. He would even go so far as to use a tool, a small stainless steel condiment cup so he could dip out some water and carry it to the edge of the cage to fling at them. Then he would laugh demonically. I had to create a no-dog-zone around his cage to protect them from his pranks.

[danmcq]

LOL Dee! Thanks for sharing that story of Kopi tormenting the Dogs.

[birdhouse]

Phenix is absolutely a manipulative liar. Very big on premeditated assault. Luring me in w/sweetness & charm before he lets me have it both barrels. My favorite part is when he says he's sorry, though. Even when he doesn't laugh. That is so not cool!

[MonkeyBird]

My CAG, Marco, loves to fool our dog (Great Dane/Cole) into thinking my husband is home from work by saying 'Who's coming?' and 'Welcome home'. Marco listens to hear Cole's nails on the floor and bobs enthusiastically when he hears Cole run to the door. I've watched this happen up to 4 times in a row, until I just can no longer take Cole's disappointment when, once again, there's no one there. Marco loves it best when he can see Cole go running, but will settle for hearing the result he sought. Lately, Marco has taken to saying 'Puppy chow' to get the gullible Cole to think it's dinner time. If we had a video feed of them during the day, I have no doubt we'd see even more of Marco's treachery.

 

Wicked bird.

Edited July 18, 2013 by MonkeyBird

[danmcq]

Thanks to all who have shared their funny stories of grey manipulation and deception. I hope others have good ones to share as well.

[Timbersmom]

Loved the video! They are indeed manipulative liars, at least in my experience. Timber hasn't turned his wiles on me yet, but he spends his days trying to think of ways to lure the cats over so he can throw something at them or nip their tails. On the positive side, his tail nips seem to startle them more than hurt them (they jump or look but don't yowl) so I know he is being playful and not "clamping down."

[danmcq]

Phenix is absolutely a manipulative liar. Very big on premeditated assault. Luring me in w/sweetness & charm before he lets me have it both barrels. My favorite part is when he says he's sorry, though. Even when he doesn't laugh. That is so not cool!

 

I wonder if Greys think "I'm Sorry" is just something we humans say after we do something considered as hurtful or mean like putting them back in their cage. Then we do it again.

 

So maybe they are following our lead?

[Wingy]

Dan this topic couldn't have come at a better time. Again this afternoon out of nowhere Jake went into full attack on both of us. I kept getting up to put him back on his cage top and the little snot would beat me back to the couch. Finally to de-escelate the situation I placed him on his door perch and whipped that door shut. Now he is happily attacking his toys inside the cage. Am I doing the right thing? We have so few hours that Jake can have out of cage time but I am not sure what else I can do. Its like he refuses to be redirected. He new attitude has coincided with the molting out and subsequent growth of his flight and his new found flight. I miss my buddy. I can't say I am very thrilled with this evil biting machine that has invaded his body. Does it get better?

[danmcq]

It does get better Wingy. But, takes time. The new ability to fly with those primaries coming in give him freedom and abilities he did not have. Now he can interact with you both on a whole new level and unfortunately that is playing games that you don't like and he thinks are terrific fun. This could continue for a while. That pent up energy comes out when that door opens and it's a free for all. I remember those days well and they lasted from around 1 year old to around 3 years old, but lessened in frequency over that time month by month. You will become masters of hearing wings flapping and ducking and flailing arms to divert the fly-by and nip. Nothing is more fun than a flighted bird being placed somewhere and race right back to the point of origin to do another cycle of the same behavior.

 

The best thing I can advise you to do, is make certain there is another landing spot like a tree or t-stand he can fly to when you flail your arms or duck as he fly's by. You both will need to be prepared for these until he ages and mellows out a little. I cannot count the sneaky back of neck pinches I received over the time period previously mentioned. Most the time you can divert them, but when your focused on something they can fly, nail you and lift off before you can say $%$%#^$^XXX!

 

So hang in there, know this is rather normal grey fun and learn to deal with it as well as you can.

[JeffNOK]

I'm feeling a bit guilty as I write this. I was irritated with Gracie the other night when I posted on another thread about her deceptions and manipulations. During her "nite nite" routine that particular evening she said "Nite nite time, back in cage, time for sleepies.", and when I went to have her step up she ran from me several times saying "Ah Ah no no". She did in fact step up after a couple of minutes and she didn't nip or bite. To be honest, she hasn't bitten me since 4th of July weekend. She does say "Ah Ah " and pops me with her beak sometimes, but it is harmless. As I read my post, I realized I characterized her in an unfair light. She is asserting herself, but she very rarely nips or bites in a serious manner. She is just sort of grumpy and protests. I watch her as she attacks her toys (ironically saying "Don't you bite your daddy!" while going full on Tyrannosaurus Rex on the unfortunate toy) and realize she never goes at me that way. I mean, she has power, but she restrains it by 80% at least. I have never received a bite with anything near full strength. Yes, she is in her "terrible twos", but she is generally just a joy, and since she can't speak for herself, I wanted to advocate for her.

[chezron]

Maybe my guy is not that smart, but he is NEVER manipulative like your video. He is kind of like a golden retriever grey, and completely honest about his feelings. It is so weird when I read all of these descriptions of manipulation and none of them has ever happened to me. Brutus LOVES Jimpster our quaker, and he tries to get close to him but Jimpster is a fighter. In fact, every morning Brutus sticks his beak out of the cage actively soliciting Jimpster to hammer it with his beak. His morning is not complete unless Jimpster attacks his beak. Go figure! He pretty much ignores Pancho, the amazon, but talks about him all the time. I really feel they are a flock because when something scares them, they all take off and fly away as a unit. Also, most of the time when I come home they are all on Brutus' cage hanging out. Amazingly, Brutus has never harbored a grudge against me and been sweet one minute, and attacked the next. It just doesn't happen. I just feel he loves me all the time. Thank you for the video Dan it was very entertaining. I hope your family is doing well in your new house.

[danmcq]

Oh Jeff, we all know Gracie is a sweetheart. It is wonderful she is just basically pushing your hand away, rather than delivering a blood letting bite.

[danmcq]

LOL Chezron at Golden Retriever.

 

I have no experience with Quakers, but from things Dave007 has posted about them. They are ferocious fighters and will stand their ground around any size parrot. I don't know whats with the desire for a good beak smacking. But, I suspect it must feel good. Dayo at times likes me to scratch his beak fairly hard I suppose to help clean it. But, he closes his eyes like it feels really good. I know when he had enough pleasure though... he will many times give my finger a good pinch.

[katana600]

After reading about gentle and sweet Brutus, it makes me wonder if the treachery is directed only at those who are not the significant-special-chosen one? Java never has behaved with treachery to me but takes great delight in sweetly leaning forward eliciting a finger and a chomp for my husband. She also does the garage door and inside door squeak to get the dogs stirred up. Gilbert has those Jeckyll/Hyde moments and has no one in the household he cherishes above all others. He is as likely to lure any one of us in with a head scratch posture and a spin and chomp. When he is grumpy he is grumpy without regard for bias or preference. He does seem to like me a little and he will trick the dogs and ask them if they want to go outside if we get all warm and cozy with a blanket on the sofa. Although it has been nearly two and a half years with him, I do believe he is just getting the lay of the land and carefully choosing his alliances.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Geez guys... they are all manipulators, and liars!I find it refreshing to deal with a lying manipulative bird, that truly sucks at it, compared to the humans I deal with daily! It makes me laugh at what they attempt to do, and get away with it. Of course, Sophie gets away with what I can offer, as long as maintaining positive behavior, outside of biting. NOT going to happen!I maintain a flying open caged concept, but biting is NEVER allowed!If they bite... wrist status only, until they understand. Nancy

[Wingy]

Nancy Jake will bite a forearm or a hand after flying to it, he won't step up for anything but a pillow without a bite now, he attacks legs if he is sitting on your knee, he will fly at your face/neck/shoulder/back/rear end/legs and tear either of us up and it doesn't matter if we are sitting on the couch, standing up, or walking. He can be sitting nice on a knee one moment and the next taking chunks out of it. When ever one of us gets a bite we say not nice, no bite while the other now has to grab a pillow and have him step up onto that (which he hops up onto willingly) for a trip back to the cage. Wrist status isn't going to do diddly because he isn't on a shoulder. It is about time for his yearly check up at the vet and I will be bringing this to her attention because this is either there is something medically wrong or this is a behavior issue that we need help with. We are trying to remain positive but the rate with which this is escalating is frightening.

[birdhouse]

There's always a reason, whether or not a parront ever figures out what exactly that is. Sometimes, it is a very good idea to make sure it's not a medical issue if there's such a drastic a change in behavior. But if Jake gets a clean bill of health then it's either environmental or behavioral - both the parronts' & the fids'.

 

So, the next step in the process is to see if anything in Jake's environment has changed. Any... Little... Thing. New hair style, glasses, personal care items, laundry detergent, tattoo? Moved a lamp, a pic, a nic knack? Anything that Jake can see through the window even if you can't (yeah, that's pretty hard to track down!)? Abandon what you think you know & spend a serious bit of time over the next week looking at the world thru his eyes.

 

Meanwhile, try to closely observe how your partner acts & reacts & ask them to really watch you. It's very easy to think we know what we're doing until someone else points things out from a fresh perspective.

 

Until you can get this sorted, it's even more important to have positive time w/Jake. Everyone's emotional right now. So it can only help if you deliberately create good interaction. You can't trust physical interaction right now. Maybe try something vocal like playing the whistling game where you can praise him tons, cause they are honestly astounding at it. Maybe some clicker training where you're bonding & teaching fun behaviors w/o actually touching.

 

You don't want to give up physical contact though. Just maybe make an effort to make more frequent casual contact when he looks like he's interested. But it might be better to limit his time sitting on you. Maybe make a portable activity center for him so he can enjoy being nearby, instead.

 

Birds don't naturally hang all over each other all the time. They're not like dogs & cats who might actually sleep piled on top of each other or their owners. So a little extra space when things get out of control might not be a bad thing. Just so long as it doesn't become permanent.

 

You don't feel like you deserve this so it's painful emotionally & physically. And because you don't feel like you have any idea what's going on, you don't feel like you have any control. But Jake may be feeling the same thing. So take a few deep breaths. Step back & start over. This is a process & it will take some time. So honestly commit to it & try not to get hurt or frustrated because that just doesn't help.

 

Unfortunately, you can't just fix this. But you really can work thru it one step at a time. You're about to learn a whole lot more about yourself & Jake than you ever dreamed. And in the meantime, you can come here to get the next bright idea or just vent any time you need. But the day things finally start to turn around, you're going to realize that you've achieved something so huge that it will pay for this whole ride on the crazy train. Honest!

[danmcq]

Great comments and thoughts Val!

 

These types of behavior can sometimes be very complex, perplexing and an emotional roller coaster.

 

Wingy, you are certainly taking the right steps in a vet visit and possibly getting help from a behaviorist if needed.

[Wingy]

Birdhouse thank you. I am starting a new thread and will cross link the two.

 

Edited to add the link. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?199872-The-biting-has-become-a-problem.&p=288750#post288750

Edited July 21, 2013 by Wingy

[Ray P]

The answer to your question is Yes and she is very good at it.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Wingy... haven't been here for a few weeks. How is everything going? Nancy

[Wingy]

Jake is a work in progress.

[Elvenking]

My baby, Isaac, always loves a good game. I guess it's all his life is about really. LOL. One thing he loves to do, and can really get to me when I am tired, is baiting me. He will fly to things that he knows I don't like him to be on or by and give me a gleaming look like...'Game on!' For example....he'll fly to the top of my speakers for my stereo and threaten to poke more holes in the grills. Or he'll stand my my keyboard and shout, "BOY! BOY!" liike he knows I do when i am telling him to get away from them. He also doesn't seem to like when i have to shake anything. He'll attempt to attack the hand that shakes...say....a jug of orange juice.....but I guess shaking is just too out of bounds for him. Then I will scold him and he becomesa little baby again.

 

However, there is just no replacing coming home and peeking around the door and watching him flex his wings and say, "Heeeeyyy boooooyyeeee!"

[danmcq]

LOL, great story of Isaac's manipulating you. He is so full of character and always has been. I always enjoy reading of his antics and watching his video's. You've been missed!