Update to Boyfriend Biting and Question for Going Forward

[chelsearv]

Fred, the 13 TAG has now been in our home for about 3 months. His comfort with and acceptance of us has increased and his personality has definitely started to come out.

 

After doing a lot of research on the forum, speaking to the pet store people at our parrot store and reading The Beak Book, we have made a lot of progress with Fred wanting to attack Brian. Steps we have taken -

 

*Fred now has his 'day cage' in Brian's office, so Brian can talk to him throughout the day.

*Fred also has a big play stand in the main room (where I spend my non-work hours) and a night cage in our bedroom. The idea behind this 'expanded territory' being that if he has more space, he might guard each one a little less viciously.

*Brian offers the best snacks and he is the transport 'vehicle' to take Fred to from his night cage to his perch, from perch to day cage, etc.

*All cages/perches have been modified so that Fred cannot be taller than us.

*Fred has a regular supply of destructible toys, climbing space and bath time to make sure his energy has an outlet.

 

So here's the problem - Brian is the transport vehicle so Fred knows Brian is the access to fun. Fred has even started lifting his food when Brian approaches and he'll step up after a few attempts (you can probably imagine how huge this is!). However, after 5 seconds on his hand, he goes in for repeated bites.

 

With my rescue dog, if she has a spaz-out moment, we stop - she can't advance on the walk, training game, etc until she is under control again (for her, it's barking her head off). Is this the right approach for Fred? Should he be delivered back to his point of origin and then approached again for another attempt?

 

Because we are currently following the advice that Fred should be moved by Brian, Brian just wears gloves and takes the biting the whole way to the next place. But is this correct? Does it encourage biting? Should he put him on the floor (in a safe space obviously), put him back on the perch, wobble his hand (we've read this leads to distrust) or not be involved at all?

 

I'm happy to do everything Fred related, but Brian is patient and interested in helping.

 

Thank you for any advice!

[Greywings]

Slow down, you are working on a hurried time line trying to force acceptance to step up with gloves is only delaying any progress. With Greys and with some people moving slowly and building trust is what it is all about. If he is not ready to step up on his own please do not force him it will make for more bites and less trust. You have to win him over by allowing him to feel he has some choice not having to respond with a bite. Take your time, build trust and work on your relationship with him. Go look for Gilberts story and you can see the results of working on your birds time rather than on a goal you have set. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?192443-Gilbert-is-home&p=285166#post285166

[Timbersmom]

I have nothing to add to Greywings post. However, I just wanted to say that you have made good progress for only 3 months!

[murfchck]

I agree, this is good progress but i would stop the gloves. I know your thinking, sure just let my boyfriend get bit. That really isn't the case. In our situation when the bird bit, they go back to the start, we wait a few minutes then try again. Sooner or later they learned that if they bit, they didn't get to the other area. Also we discovered that with Gabby, nothing can be in our hands when we hold her. Not even a small paperclip, she knows and takes advantage of it. Bongo also hated or feared my husband when we got him and we decided that i would be his "safety" and Pat didn't even try to handle him. Now that he has settled, a year and a half later, Pat has started working with him to be able to hold him and bring him from his cage to the stand. They do not accept everyone right off and forcing it can cause setbacks and frustration for you guys and your grey.

[katana600]

First, you are doing a LOT of things really well. Kudos on seeking alternative methods and working so hard to understand Fred. When Brian approaches Fred and lifts his foot, he may be "obeying" as he was taught in a previous life. He may not have been given choices. Something I read early on is that a grey is a subtle creature and will give cues before reaching a level of frustration to bite. They watch us so intently and are vigilant to see every nuance of a facial expression to "read" us. Watch Fred's other "expressions", his posture, his eyes and his feathers. It is a tough duty to try to figure out all the cues, sometimes his chest may quiver because he is excited, sometimes its fear. Once you get to know him better, you will be able to understand the cues better. One thing that I believe is true is that biting is a learned behavior and sometimes it becomes habit. If you give Fred some time, in my experience and observation, it will pay off big dividends in trust. It seems like it has taken eons to get Gilbert figured out (still working on it two years later) but I am seeing some progress lately. Our greys are more complex and wonderful than any living creature I have encountered in my half century of learning. I am in agreement with the "no gloves" approach. In time he will be devoted and loving and that's the goal. They build trust slowly, depending on how he was handled before your home. Fred sounds really like he is an agreeable and fairly well adjusted fellow, he is still new and getting to know his new family.

[Brat Birds]

I agree, it is a s l o w process and trying to rush it will not usually help. I, also, would stop the glove. You might try a very small treat when Fred steps up with no trouble. Also, I have never tried it, but some say if after the bird is on you, you give them something to chew on they might bite that instead of you.

[Timbersmom]

Yes indeed. Last night I had to retrieve Timber from the floor. He WANTS to be on the floor, and often bites when I deposit him on the cage. I used a small piece of cheese, which I gave to him as soon as he stepped up. Now, you have to understand that Timber won't risk dropping a piece of cheese even in hurricane conditions, so I was able to deposit him on the cage without a bite. He made a hurumphing noise, but didn't bite me. Now, all I have to worry about is the fact that he will try even harder to get on the floor hoping for more cheese! Vicious circle, but you learn to "do what you have to do."

[Brat Birds]

LOL yes it sometines can be a vicious cycle. To get what we want they have to get what they want too. That is one reason I call mine Brat Birds! You might try different things so he doesn't expect a piece of cheese each time.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

chelsearv... take your time. It unfortunately is a long process for Fred to trust you guys. Absolutely no gloves! If Fred can't be picked up without them, he is not ready to be picked up. Open the cage door, let Fred see you and boyfriend interact in front of the cage. Read to him daily, play games in front of his cage. We did all sorts of family activities in front of Sophie, who came home at age two. I would NEVER put my hand in any of my birds cages. They came out to us. Sophie came out a few days into adopting us. She climbed up on our shoulders. We did " stepup" to whomevers turn it was while playing a game. As far as bedtime... I would put her on her cage, told her it was time for bed. Never a problem in the beginning. Nancy

[Acappella]

If you are moving him to a place he wants to be he may be biting out of habit. In that case a firm but calm "no" + sad face and return to point of origin. Make your change in attitude dramatic. Happy and full of praise when he's being good, immediately sad and quiet when he bites. Fred should get the message pretty fast that he doesn't get where he wants to be if he bites. Now, if he's biting because he actually didn't want to step up and is only doing it under duress, that's an entirely different kind of bite. That's "I may have to do what you want me to, but I'm letting you know I'm not happy".

 

It took more than four years before Dorian would step up from inside his cage. We started with step ups from a perch that was attached to the side of the cage on the outside. When Dorian landed on that perch, it was my signal that he was ready to step up. After that routine was established I started asking for a step up from inside the cage, but it was always his choice. I'd offer, he'd decline, and I'd say OK and leave without him. Come back and offer again. I just kept on offering and offering until his desire to leave with me overcame his reluctance to step up from inside his cage.

 

I think at this point it would be Ok to do a gentle rolling of your hand to destabalize him if he's going in for a bite. A little earthquake hand combined with the 'no', sad voice and expression, should get the message across.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I always say... " listen to your bird". At first. Most parents "except" their bird choices, and wait for them to change their opinion. I don't believe in that. I believe in exposing any grey to the entire family, in small doses. If you wait for a grey to except the entire family.... you will be waiting for years!!!! Once a grey accepts and trusts one family member, it is up to them, to get their bird socialized with other family members.Within six months of Sophie coming home at age two, she loved all of us. We worked on it together. Now a decade later.... Sophie was hanging on our gate dividing kitchen and family room, my sons friend came over to help me with pool. Sophie knows him. She was on the gate, he tried to pet her. She " pushed his hand away when he tried to pet her.". She allowed one pet, then pushed his hand away. I told him, she's got some conflicting emotions, remove your hand before you lose it! He understood. She " trusts" him, but is not ready for 100% petting, as she is a lover and snuggler. Nancy

[chelsearv]

Wow, I can't believe two years have passed already and I forgot all about this forum. Thank you to everybody for your comments and for being active on this forum. I wish every person who was interested in adopting a parrot knew about this - and read through it to learn the behind-the-scenes business to having a bird in the family. Thanks again, you all are much appreciated.

 

Fred update - we've moved around quite a bit over the past few years. The routine has changed A LOT. Fred has done great. He and Brian have developed an acceptance of each other. Fred and I are very good pals and he LOVES Sydney, the Australian Shepherd featured in one of the videos we posted awhile back. And by 'LOVES', I mean he loves to taunt her and fake bite through the cage. They do that back and forth for an unbelievably long time.

 

We are in the process of building a tiny house with 17' tall ceilings (small footprint but big vertical space). The purpose - Storage space for human stuff, climbing rope space for human fun and all sorts of vertical flight and play room for the feathered family member. We'll be sure to post pics/videos when it's all done.

[Timbersmom]

I'll be very interested to see those photos. Sounds like a neat idea! I'm glad things are going well for you.

[SRSeedBurners]

Had to watch the videos to remember who Fred was!

[Greywings]

What a fun idea, just remember birds spend more time flying horizontally than vertically.