(not so good) News from bird club meeting.

[Earthchild]

We went to our first bird club meeting tonight, and found out that it is highly likely that Irwin is actually a 30+ yr old wild caught import. He is coming tomorrow to check him out. (Update: looks like he is probably six yrs as we were told, and we still don't know where he came from . But, he is happy and healthy and perfect. )

Edited May 20, 2013 by Earthchild
Update and to remove negativity from title

[Earthchild]

Thank you very much for the articles, I've been researching with no luck. This man is the second to bring up the leg band/wild caught idea. Both people who have also have suggested giving him up to a nice breeder facility and getting a baby, but I don't know. I love Irwin a lot, but they say he would be happier as a breeder. We will find out tomorrow though so I guess it's just wait and see. Even if he is wild caught I probably could still work with him. That article on taming was good, I will keep trying that.

[Earthchild]

Love the pix too

[murfchck]

We play towel games with all of our guys too. Getting them use to towels make it so much easier and a little less stressful when they have to go to the vet. 3 out of 5 can be swaddled like babies and carried around like one now. We started by speading the towel out and letting them play on it, then we would hid toys under it letting them discover what was under it. That moved to tossing the corner areas at them a little at a time without touching them until we could actually place it over them. It is suggested to do this with a white towel, as color towels could scare them and most vets use white. This did take us months to achieve and 2 of them still are just on the towel but thats okay, its still good bonding time! I wish you the best with your guy!

[Jayd]

We went to our first bird club meeting tonight, and found out that it is highly likely that Irwin is actually a 30+ yr old wild caught import. He is coming tomorrow to check him out.

[Maggie typing for Jay]Sorry, but this whole series of Irwin has things about it that bothers me. What does it matter how old the Tag is?, what does it matter if " Wild caught" ? Is Irwin a test subject? re:

Simple tests of grey cognition

 

Who is this mystery man who has brought this life altering news? Number 1 you can't go by a "Band" and its markings! and you can't tell a Tags age by looking at it. Trancework, GOOD REPLY, your links are great but there old, sorry, you need to not test or try to figure out a band but to apply common sense, treat Irwin like a new baby that you not worried about but are just so happy to have..Sit and talk, laugh, sing and read to, if Irwin squawk, tell him "I don't like that, walk away, keep the cage open, keep your hands out of the cage, clean at same time each day, talk, sing and read some more, love not question, read this forum, there's a lot of currant post on rescues... Chill out, enjoy this wonderful creature not question him...

 

 

You have had Irwin since Feb, it is now May, Irwin hasn't even taking his coat off yet, Took Joe 2 years to come out of cage and some of our others even longer... Irwin is doing what is expected at this time. Please give the baby a chance, don't rush or push him....A flower doesn't bloom in one day, and sometimes it takes years for us to learn.......

Edited May 17, 2013 by Jayd

[Earthchild]

I'm on here for help not criticism..

[Jayd]

I'm on here for help not criticism..

[Maggie typing for Jay] I offered true help not criticism and I questioned as you have. So far you have been given good advice, I will no longer offer my experience to you. Sometimes we don't like to hear the truth. Only you can know what is right or wrong, were not with this poor Grey 24/7 like you are, our only response can be to what you post.....As your mystery man has a opinion, so do I and every one on this forum, including you...The best to you and yours.....Jayd

 

This thread has a lot about rescues...http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190309-A-note-on-Punishment-and-your-Parrot/page10

Edited May 17, 2013 by Jayd

[danmcq]

Thank you very much for the articles, I've been researching with no luck. This man is the second to bring up the leg band/wild caught idea. Both people who have also have suggested giving him up to a nice breeder facility and getting a baby, but I don't know. I love Irwin a lot, but they say he would be happier as a breeder. We will find out tomorrow though so I guess it's just wait and see. Even if he is wild caught I probably could still work with him. That article on taming was good, I will keep trying that.

 

My personal opinion on Irwin possibly being happier as a breeder is an unknown. Breeder greys are not treated with the love and at least company of humans at all. They are basically left alone other than feeding and watering by most breeders so they can just focus on being with their "Mate" and producing eggs. I guess my questions at this point would be , what difference does it make if he was or was not wild caught? There are tons of wild caught greys in homes around america and other countries in the world getting a long just fine. I would steer clear of non-rescue type people just tellng me to dump a grey I rescued and go get a baby instead. I am just trying to give you food for thought here.

 

You have already done a good job in rehoming Irwin and starting a foundational relationship that can only grow over time. I know what I am talking about in regards this. How so? I purchased a suspected wild caught Peach Front Conure from a low life that had cages of parrots just sitting in his back yard and was selling them. He had to use gloves to get Jake out of that cage, but was telling me he had to because Jake was just scared.... Long story short, for 2 years I could not get him to step up or even want to be close. I left him flighted and would either towel him or finally got him to where he would stepup on a perch and I could return him to his cage. After another year or so he would occasionally stepup on to one of our hands and he would always follow us where ever we went in our house. Now at 8 years in our home, he sits on one of our shoulders at all times, loves scratches and screams if he gets left in another room and comes frantically flying until he finds and lands on one of us. how old is he? I have no clue, but don't really care. What difference does it make? We love him just as much as our Grey Dayo that we started visiting at the breeder at 6 weeks old.

 

I hope this helps you decide to keep Irwin and develop a loving and good relationship with him.

[judygram]

I'm on here for help not criticism..

And help is what you are being offered, seems the criticism is coming from the people in the bird club and in my opinion they are the ones with the doubts. Yes as Dan stated we have some members here who have wild caught greys and though it takes longer to get them to accept humans it is accomplished and with good results, the worst you could do is "dump" him at this point, he needs your consistent love and attention. He probably has lots of baggage to work thru but please don't give up on him as you are his best hope of having a happy life.

I too belong to a bird club and I have never heard any of the members treat another member the way you have been treated, shameful.

 

[Jayd]

This truly is the greatest forum on the net, those that offer ask nothing in return and their reason for offering is love of parrots and man/women kind........Dan, Judy Earthchild and all the rest thank you for having a opinion and voicing it. Dan and Judy s experiences are not just from books, but from real life.....Bless you all and your Fid's

[danmcq]

Dan and Judy s experiences are not just from books, but from real life.....Bless you all and your Fid's

 

As are yours Jay and thank you Sir!

[trancework]

I know for a fact that the responses in this thread have probably driven someone away from this forum, permanently.

 

I think that's a shame and believe that we, as a community, would benefit from examining what's happend here.

 

1. A member heard some information from someone at a local bird club. [Was the infomation accurate? Probably not, who knows? Was the infomation delivered for a nefarious purpose? Likely not...]

2. That member shared the information here...

3. Other forum members consumed that information and replied.

 

I can see those replies as falling into three categories:

 

1. Useful things you can try to do with your bird that may or may not hinge on the validity of the information.

2. Advocacy on the bird's behalf backed by subjective reference to other of the user's posts and threads.

3. Third-party support of members other than the original poster who replied.

 

I see a lot of value in replies that fall into category 1. Those of categories 2 and 3, not so much. I am perphaps biased, as I view my reply falling into the first cagegory. I read the situation as "Ok, you have some info, here are some things you might try and see how they work, making adjustments along the way..."

 

Then there were other replies, that I belive were well intended, but just sounded harsh. I personally saw the "original" version of some of the replies as caustic and counterproductive and I know that that is how they were perceived by the original poster. I find it bothersome that posts on this board are open to editing so long after they've been written. This enables people to shoot from the hip, regardess of how those words will be taken, what hurt they will cause, and to respond without due for their impact--knowing that they can be "taken back", "amended", or "redacted" to suit how the poster wants to be perceived after their sting has sunk and the damage has been done.

 

If something's posted, then STAND BY YOUR WORDS, warts and all, and if you didn't mean to say something MAKE ANOTHER POST perhaps along the lines of, "Sorry for my comments in Post #701, it wasn't what I meant to say and rereading them, I can see how I came across as a total ass. Here's what I would really like to say..." This is a basic case of "think before you speak" and "treat others as you'd like to be treated", etc. Coming back after the fact and making things said "disappear into the memory hole" just wreaks of bad mojo.

 

The case of people supporting members who make statements that can be perceived as caustic, can come across as something of a pile-on. This too is bad mojo, and I'm speaking from first-hand experience as the recipient of such treatment. I had a thread go bad when I posted about intentionally letting Ollie test the limits and using that as a chance to give feedback. Following the effects of that thread, taken as "oh not this shit, again", several members contacted me with statementst to the effect of "Wow, that was harsh, I'm glad you stayed, it's happened here before with bad results." Personally, I don't care, I have an ultra high-stress job at which I'm truly exceptional and live a pretty good life. Any greif that would come my way for posting my heart-felt thoughts with WORDS I STAND BY on a Parrot forum--not even on par with the average hang-nail. I have means, if I "needed" it, I can go to my regular avain vet, a nearby emergency vet, in a really tight pinch the nearby parrot rescue 24x7. For less dramatic events, I could pay to have an avian behaviorist visit, etc, etc, etc. I am a benefactor of said awesome local rescue, and I am a member of an UTTERLY AMAZING local bird club.

 

Maybe some others aren't in that situation and this forum could be one of the main resources at their disposal. It'd be a shame for them to tune it out because of something someone said here in... I participate on grey forums out of an interest in birds, not egoes, and if someone wants to ban me for these remarks or any other reason, I have plenty of things to do with my time. But, like many here, I find it rewarding to offer help and insight because I care about greys, and am constantly learning and making my birds' lives better, just as I've been doing since I was 5 years old with my budgie Tippy.

 

I hear many of the "there's so much lived experience" statements on this board, and have no doubt as to their validity and knowing what that entails, see this as establishing many of the members on this board with a certain degree of authority on the subject of grey parrots and their health, enrichment and upkeep. And that's great. In business, I've watched several firsthand trainwrecks as brilliant folks who are authorities in their fields have been blindsided by either an underappreciation or inability to exercise actual influence.

 

Essentially, if you do not connect with someone, they'll never get your message.

The worst case is when the lack of influence by virtue of "I am the authority, you must listen to me" drives the recipient of that message away because she or he feels diserspected or invalidated, and that, I fear, is what's transpired in the few posts in reply to a young lady, sharing with the grey community in what she saw as a safe and nurturing space, the comments that someone made when she reached out to another community to try and connect with caring people who want nothing more than to share experience that may help her make life better for HER bird, Irwin.

 

And with regard to the comment "is your bird a test subject"--we're all test subjects in this grand experiment to find meaning on a rock circling the universe pulled toward a giant ball of nuclear fire. I'VE CHOOSE TO DO SO WITH A GREY PARROT ON MY SHOULDER AND I BELIEVE I'M NOT ALONE.

[Jayd]

I'm editing this post. I have no right to subject members to my emotions. Trancesworks has a right to speak his mind. My feelings are the same, I'm just not going to force them unto anyone.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Jayd

[trancework]

Quite frankly, I'm surprised you chose to take what I wrote that way, Jay. To each is own.

[murfchck]

The part i am trying to sort thru is the thought of just passing this bird on to become a breeder, why, because he is wild caught? Because of his age? Because he is going to need need more help than expected? Believe me, no one is trying to upset you with our replies on here. Sometimes we have to ask hard questions to understand, we are not there with you two. I went back and read your threads from when you joined and the progress has been great, that is what we have to go by, then this is posted so please understand my confusion. I really think you have been doing good for your grey, don't give up on him. Okay, so he is 30 yrs old, i would love to see his remaining life filled with love and tenderness and understanding. Say he is wild caught, hasn't he been through enough already. Taken from the wild, his flock then into a cage with who knows what kind of life until now. He is just tugging my heart strings and i just want to cry for him at the thought of being passed around again to have another, who knows what kind of life in a cage with a stranger and expectations to mate. We humans have caused his baggage, i just don't want us to cause more for this guy.

[judygram]

The part i am trying to sort thru is the thought of just passing this bird on to become a breeder, why, because he is wild caught? Because of his age? Because he is going to need need more help than expected? Believe me, no one is trying to upset you with our replies on here. Sometimes we have to ask hard questions to understand, we are not there with you two. I went back and read your threads from when you joined and the progress has been great, that is what we have to go by, then this is posted so please understand my confusion. I really think you have been doing good for your grey, don't give up on him. Okay, so he is 30 yrs old, i would love to see his remaining life filled with love and tenderness and understanding. Say he is wild caught, hasn't he been through enough already. Taken from the wild, his flock then into a cage with who knows what kind of life until now. He is just tugging my heart strings and i just want to cry for him at the thought of being passed around again to have another, who knows what kind of life in a cage with a stranger and expectations to mate. We humans have caused his baggage, i just don't want us to cause more for this guy.

 

Exactly, that is the only thing I am concerned about, this grey needs a good and stable home with someone to love and appreciate him for what he is.

[katana600]

I haven't gone back to catch up on all of Irwin's threads yet, but I will today. What I want to offer for now is that I have been where you are. We got Gilbert (Timneh African Grey) with a sketchy history, not sure of his age, his band is missing and he is our first rehome/rescue. He scared the beejeebers out of me with his fear, biting, plucking issues. I spent many anxious nights wondering did I do him any favors and do I have what it takes to go the long haul with him. Then, I see Gilbert ever so slowly begin to trust and change and I know that even if I didn't do everything "right", I have always just tried to right by him. It is slow, it is painful and it is also working. The unvarnished truth is I often wonder even today, should I get another baby and try again. We had two babies that were wonderful and my first experience with greys three years ago and lost both of them. It was magical to bring home a baby and those memories tug at my heart string. The truth is, had either of them survived, we would have gone through the terrible twos or changed loyalties or a host of other changes that would have me... on certain days... longing for the "feeling" I had back in the beginning when I was dreaming of how our life together was going to be. Gilbert is my reality and I love him so much and a small thing like this morning when my husband walked up and Gilbert spontaneously offered a step up is an awe inspiring moment of confirmation that its going to be okay and we are making progress with him.

[danmcq]

I am glad to see this thread turn back around to on topic and and helpful posts.

 

We all have opinions and experiences to share to hopefully help someone make the best decision for themselves and their parrots. Someitmes that includes questions to the original poster asking for help and thoughts. I personally appreciate all posts in this thread and oopinions. the more a person has to review, the better the can come to a conclusion on what best fits their present lifestyle and capabilities to deal with a given situation that will result for the betterment of both the human and parrot.

 

The problem with written language is it does not emote what we feel as we are writing it. Thus the need for smiley, cheeky, mad etc. emoticons so it cannot be misconstrued. I know I often write very short and speedy responses with no thought whatsoever how it may come across. My bad, but many times I am in a hurry and just want to respond and then get back to the task I need to be working on. I hope to hear an update from Irwin's Parront on this and that they are still on this forum.

 

Also in regards Edits. I am glad we have that ability because I write fast many times as already stated. Then sometime later so dumb spelling mistakes or incomplete sentences I have written and edit them so I do not appear as some uneducated moron of a person that cannot spell or write a complete sentence.

[aw64]

We went to our first bird club meeting tonight, and found out that it is highly likely that Irwin is actually a 30+ yr old wild caught import. He is coming tomorrow to check him out.

 

Hi please don't take any of what these guys ask or say the wrong way, they really do love their birds and have years of experience between them, I have been helped many many times, and there have been times I'v read a reply to my problem and felt a bit put out, but they have and still do support me 100% and there advice works, I'm new to Greys my Alfie is still young but I can honestly say its been harder than I throught and I'v got along way to go, if I didn't know better there have been times I would say Alfie had been wild caught, I would love to hear how things go for you and Irwin.

[Dave007]

WOW---all this craziness. It sounds so GOOD!!!. I'm getting off just reading it. It's like a good TV series that's being made for next year. COME ON---more episodes PLEASE!!!

First off Tranny, lots of people are gonna get pissed but that won't get you banned from the board if YOU decide you edit something that's months old SO others who do that are coming up with new info much later in the future and that's a good thing. Lots of people do that.As far as banning, the admin and the moderators get together once a month and break out some super duper wine and get wasted. The admin lets us use her house. She has the choice of wine although we all like red but people better get theirs quickly when she's around. She buys a second bottle to use when we all leave.

Dan is the big drinker. he's Irish. Judy is used to the wine cause where she comes, they drink all year long. I sip and savor. Some others never show up cause they're Mormons. So we sit around and play cards and when it's time to go, everyone gets in their car and takes a chance driving home. If someone doesn't make it home, they're banned. After all, they're injured or dead so they would be useless here. Oh shit, we forgot to talk about banning other members. Well, there's always next time.

 

 

As Dan said we share opinions and if people decide to leave because of the way the opinions were presented[and they're many] and decide to leave, well, screw them. We get enough people who come here, ask one question, get multiple answers to that one subject and they're gone in the wind. Well, screw them too.

Not everyone has the talent to type out emotions. It would be cool if they did but then things like this new book coming out wouldn't be printed.

Tranny, just one piece of advice----stop using so many other pieces of info from established articles. Not to cruel but Why do I say that?

Well, lets name off persons numbered 1,2 ,3.

An established website can have lots of info in it and it contradicts another established website which in turn contradicts another website. These established authors swear that what they're saying is the truth and ONLY the truth. People 1,2,3 read these established authors, use it on their birds and BOOM, there's trouble. Then they come here to try and get help. Some of the help is blunt. Some don't like it. I'm blunt with people and if they don't like it, they complain but don't leave BUT on the other hand, they do leave.,It doesn't stop me from drinking my wine.

 

ASk Dan about that famous ad on the PC called BIRDTRICKS. Don't ask me. My answer won't be too civil.

A couple of questions for the original poster

1--whos the person at the club that can tell how old the bird is? Especially an adult bird.

2---please desribe thr actual band on the bird---not the numbers or letters, or colors.

Just describe to me whether it has a very tiny slit in the band. Now,does this look like a 17 yr old TAG in his 3rd home that liked to attack men, women, babies in cribs, dogs and cats.

WOW---all this craziness. It sounds so GOOD!!!. I'm getting off just reading it. It's like a good TV series that's being made for next year. COME ON---more episodes PLEASE!!!

First off Tranny, lots of people are gonna get pissed but that won't get you banned from the board if YOU decide you edit something that's months old SO others who do that are coming up with new info much later in the future and that's a good thing. Lots of people do that.As far as banning, the admin and the moderators get together once a month and break out some super duper wine and get wasted. The admin lets us use her house. She has the choice of wine although we all like red but people better get theirs quickly when she's around. She buys a second bottle to use when we all leave.

Dan is the big drinker. he's Irish. Judy is used to the wine cause where she comes, they drink all year long. I sip and savor. Some others never show up cause they're Mormons. So we sit around and play cards and when it's time to go, everyone gets in their car and takes a chance driving home. If someone doesn't make it home, they're banned. After all, they're injured or dead so they would be useless here. Oh shit, we forgot to talk about banning other members. Well, there's always next time.

 

 

 

 

 

ASk Dan about that famous ad on the PC called BIRDTRICKS. Don't ask me. My answer won't be too civil.

A couple of questions for the original poster

1--whos the person at the club that can tell how old the bird is? Especially an adult bird.

2---please desribe thr actual band on the bird---not the numbers or letters, or colors.

Just describe to me whether it has a very tiny slit in the band. Now,does this look like a 17 yr old TAG in his 3rd home that liked to attack men, women, babies in cribs, dogs and cats with regularity?

Edited May 18, 2013 by Dave007

[Mistyparrot]

Thats a great screed Dave if a touch repetitious. Although to be fair perhaps you wrote it after a long committee meeting . Seriously though, you made a great point about the genius who can tell the age of a Grey just by looking ! I still have trouble working out how old Misty is. I mean if anything he looks younger now that when he came to me about nine years ago at an alleged two years old. Wow! I have just worked out he must be eleven !! In my mind he is still two.:confused:Likewise requesting more detailed info on the ring makes good sense. As for Earthchild and Irwin I hope so much he has at last found a forever home. The important thing is that wherever his cage is and who ever he is living with he feels secure at last. Greys are smart little fellows and in good time he will flourish at last. It is clear to me that he is loved and he deserves to be.Now I am off to refill my glass (with a drinkable Aussie red) and settle down to watch the rest of the Eurovision Song contest with Mistyparrot on my knee. I am not sure if you guys across the big pond get to see it or not but here it is compulsory watching by edict from the BBC and European Union.

Finally if the admins had not wanted us to edit they would not have provided the option!

 

Steve n Misty

Edited May 18, 2013 by Mistyparrot

[Dave007]

Thats a great screed Dave if a touch repetitious. Although to be fair perhaps you wrote it after a long committee meeting . Seriously though, you made a great point about the genius who can tell the age of a Grey just by looking ! I still have trouble working out how old Misty is. I mean if anything he looks younger now that when he came to me about nine years ago at an alleged two years old. Wow! I have just worked out he must be eleven !! In my mind he is still two.:confused:Like wise requesting more detailed info on the ring makes good sense. As for Earthchild and Irwin I hope so much he has at last found a forever home. The important thing is that where ever his cage is and who ever he is living with he feels secure at last. Greys are smart little fellows and in good time he will flourish at last. It is clear to me that he is loved and he deserves to be. I am off to refill my glass (with a drinkable Aussie red) and settle down to watch the rest of the Eurovision Song contest with Mistyparrot on my knee. I am not sure if you guys across the big pond get to see it or not but here it is compulsory watching by edict from the BBC and European Union.

Finally if the admins had not wanted us to edit they would not have provided the option!

 

Steve n Misty

 

My apologies---it seems that some paragraphs were repeated . I'll straighten it out now-----I'm gonna EDIT it

 

 

 

There ya go--I EDITED it

 

Hmmm, well, not truly corrected but I'm very tired concerning all of this EDITING so I'll let it go

Edited May 18, 2013 by Dave007

[Mistyparrot]

Why not Dave. I have edited my missive several times in the last five mins.

Of course you will make my post seem a bit confused but that's me allover

 

Steve n Misty

Edited May 18, 2013 by Mistyparrot

[judygram]

I think some more editing is in order Dave as you are still repeating yourself, check thru your post carefully and quit sipping the wine.

[Dave007]

I think some more editing is in order Dave as you are still repeating yourself, check thru your post carefully and quit sipping the wine.

 

Please, please give me a break