confussed

[aw64]

Hi guys, I'm still working hard with Alfie, who will be 1 on sunday, the positives are he is starting to talk well, started with hello, then tickle tickle, which he understands and asks for, we now have good boy and be a good boy, but the biting is still my biggest problem, I have been sitting with him on my landing at top of stairs with all door shut so he is unable to fly onto doors ect use a low perch with me sat on the floor, he will step up from there and have his treat and no bites but then when we return to the lounge he is back to biting if I need to remove him from somwhere, getting him back in the cage works if its tea time, he will step onto my arm while I have dish in my hand and can put him and his dish into cage, night time i turn lights off and its easy, anyother time is hell, I have very sore fingures and he has drawn blood on some occassions, my question is why is he good in small space but this training does not follow through when in our main room?.......How dare he start telling me his good boy!! the cheeck of him.

[danmcq]

"but then when we return to the lounge he is back to biting if I need to remove him from somewhere"

 

Alfie is fine in a nuetral and small confined area I suspect, because he is not busily focused on what HE WANTS TO DO. Thus the nice interaction and step-ups. But, get him back to HIS ROOM and HIS PLAY AREA and try to go stop him? We have a problem NASA! That is the difference. He does not wish to be moved from where he is and stop doing what he is happily and gleefully focused on. So he bites because you assume you have some god given right to interfer by trying to get a step-up and since you so limited in your human abilities of seeing GLARING body language of a grey clearly giving the body language for "Back off, but your feeling lucky punk, go ahead make my day".

 

At one year old he is just learning he has rights and how to protect them. I still get bites from Dayo when I must get a step-up and he is busy doing something, but I use the "Fist of Iron" and rotate my hand as he tries to get a good bite in.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Awww...Alfie is still such a baby, but has progressed alot! danmcq has excellent advice about the "iron fist!" I never used it, but it is a great way to communicate to your bird. I use " timeout". Some feel it is very successful, some don't. A bite.... lands your bird in timeout for one minute for every year. Be consistent,never yield on their cries for sympathy. Timeout, will NOT work for any bird that is NOT trusting you.They have to trust and want to make you happy. I also "took my life in my hands"(just kidding), and would gently grab their beak and say "NO! NO BITE! Back to cage, closed and locked it. Kids also had to do the same.They were old enough to work on consistency.

This is where most people won't agree. I've heard this for years. I never returned Sophie to her cage full of toys.She had a timeout cage. Her behavior was wrong, she needed to learn this. I always took her out of timeout, told her " I love you"... but I won't tolerate your biting. Between three and six months of adopting her at age two, she has been the best bird, anyone can ask for. Nancy

[aw64]

I would love to try the time out but getting him back in to cage is another problem using step up to me or perch he just flys, off and we both battle it out, he is a real head strong cag, there are so many times I just want to sit and cry as things seem to have gone so wrong, he was great up until he was about 9 months, since xmas he has been a real tinker, flys to me when I'm sat on sofa lands on head/shoulder as soon as I try to remove him I get bit then he flys off, when I'm stood up doing things and he flys to head i shake him off, but having said that as I'm writing this he is in cage right next to me down on lower perch asking for tickle tickle in such a sweet way, which is a routine thing every night before bed.

[danmcq]

I understand your frustration with Alfie. Dayo became very headstrong at around the same age as Alfie. He could be gentle as a lamb until something was not going HIS WAY. Years later now and guess what? He is still very strong willed at times and a bugger when he is hell bent on having his way. Just so you are not alone in your frustration during those times, I will give just an example Dayo's determination when he decides it's his way or someone is going to get hurt.......

 

He decides it seems like a good idea to grab an ear ring my wife just took off and placed on the table. Being flighted he can do this before she realizes he just flew from his perch, swooped in like an eagle and took off with it. Then she's jumping up and calling me while trying to get Dayo to drop it. I come in as the white knight and the football game begins. I try for a step up, of course thats not an option so he ducks, weaves, takes the ear ring out of his beak so he can try to deliver a skin gashing bite, misses and I come back in with my other hand he forgot about. Then he fly's somewhere else and the same duck and weave session happens. After a few boxing rounds he accidentally drops the ear ring, I get it and all hell breaks loose in a flying kung fu furry of trying to deliver back of neck bites, front on facial attack attempts etc. When he is pissed off, he lets you know it immediately. We have learned over the years to anticipate this and duck, weave swoosh arms around etc. until he stops the attacks and just gives up.

 

How do we feel when this type of incident occurs? Well let see, anger, hurt feelings, asking ourselves why he does this etc. The bottom line is, we decided to get a grey that everyone knows is one of the most highly intelligent, moody and high anxiety creatures on the planet! So it is our responsibility to just "Deal with it" as best we can. Using our limited human intellect to try and figure out how to keep the root cause of that incident from happening again, like not leaving something out even for a split second, that he values so highly he would fight to the death to obtain and keep it. The other thing we do during an incident he has become agitated and flying or just sitting and trying to bite us, is to react quickly by observing his body language or flight direction with cat like perception and quick movements. When he comes flying, he is not given the opportunity to land anywhere on us which means head or shoulder. We know he cannot be trusted there when he is in a mood and thus swooshed away if he tries sometimes time and again before he stops.

 

So do not become upset over this. It is not you and Alfie does not harbor grudges or feelings like we humans do sometimes for our entire lives towards some one that just may have slighted us once. Alfie is just living in the moment during those fly at your head and shoulder. So when he does it, just keep doing what you are and get quicker and better at it by seeing it coming to give you the time to react and block the landing attempt. He will get the message after several attempts and slowly stop trying so often.

 

Some people here talk about how their greys have never bitten. Believe me, it is not due to something the grey owner did that resulted in that. It is the greys personality. Greys, like humans, each have a personality of their own. We must respect that and learn how best to interact with that personalty. We are all here for you buddy, so when your feeling frustrated and at wits end, post and we will respond to help you through the moments your feeling overwhelmed.

Edited March 23, 2013 by danmcq

[aw64]

Thank you Danmcq you will never know how much better I feel after reading that, I did start to think I had the bird from hell! as alot of posts on here tell all the nice stories or just minor problems, your earring example is just what its like but not all the time, I'm almost dancing round the room now knowing it is all fine and its not unheard of for them to try to take chunks out of any part of your body and fly in for attack. Its snowing like mad here at moment but the sun has just come out in mine and alfies world, his not a devil bird after all his NORMAL yippy, Thankyou

[danmcq]

Your welcome. Alfie is a GreYt grey and you are doing well as you can to deal with these rebellious moments. he is not a devil bird and with his personality type I can guarantee that he will keep you highly entertained by thrashing toys and doing acrobats on them, flying through the air doing the grey pterodactyl screams and all. I truly enjoy seeing a grey that exhibits a strong will with a true gusto for the wild side, which they still have just a generation away from their wild African Grey Congo roots. Put on Lion king theme song and watch him proudly soar in these activities. I am glad the sun is shining inside even though there's snow outside.

Edited March 23, 2013 by danmcq

[Timbersmom]

Very good post Dan. Most of us post primarily when our bird does something interesting or cute, not when they are having a "satan's spawn" moment. I'm sure there are forum members who have never been bitten and have docile birds. I'd say there are more that experience the moody bites and unexplained (to us) actions. Timber just nailed me yesterday (blood drawer) over a very minor offense (in my mind). Yes, it upsets me when it happens and he goes in time out with a stern "no bite." Has that helped? Not much that I can see. He is very strong willed as well, and I wouldn't have him any other way! Later in the day, he was on my arm wanting scratches.

[danmcq]

Yes, it upsets me when it happens and he goes in time out with a stern "no bite." Has that helped? Not much that I can see. He is very strong willed as well, and I wouldn't have him any other way! Later in the day, he was on my arm wanting scratches.

 

Caging Dayo for a timeout never worked either. The most torturous thing that can happen in Dayo's mind, is to hear a NO BITE! and then be ignored as if he is not even in the house. We ignore him for at least 5 minutes and sometimes even just walk out of the room. Sometimes he will even be heard saying he is sorry off in the distance. This of course melts our hearts and we go back and he's all lovey dovey wanting scratches and even rolling on hs back for my wife as if nothing happened which sounds like Timber is as well.

 

I know many people here has seen that photo of Dayo laying on his back cuddled in my wifes arm. Like you said, it does seem most the time we only hear of the sweet moments. I guess I need to start getting more of the "Wild Side" shots to share.

 

Come on out all you lurkers as if you do not have a Jekyll and Hyde grey that goes all "Freddy" on you!!! We know you are here.

[Timbersmom]

LOL Yeah, they are great little manipulators! I have a permanent "sucker" sign on my forehead now I think

[aw64]

yes bring it on would love to hear all the bad things, have had a great afternoon with Alfie chatting on his play stand all is good in our world now!!!

[murfchck]

All of mine have devil moments! I have scars with hard knots under them up and down my arms from Gabby, plus i am still nursing the loss of half my nail with the nail bed exposed! She calls you to her lowers her head for tickles then once your hand is within range, BAM. Never, never, never have something in your hand when you are close to her ( i had my debit card in my hand and she wanted it, thats how i lost my nail ) ah, such a cutie! My other, non greys, are just as sneaky. I have had my lip ripped in half, thumbs ground and toes nipped. Other non bloody things... Baseboards, coffee/end tables, remotes, cell phones, tablets, picture frames and anything in my purse are highly over rated. Gabby, Gus and Bubba have much different uses for these things, whether we like it or not! Bongo and Oliver are really laid back but do have their moments. They both have a bark, not a bite. Okay, they bite Pat but as a warning, i am very safe with them both. Lol

[Timbersmom]

Ah, the joys of bird parronthood! Talk about a patience builder!

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

aw64.... you are a GREATparrent! Don't ever think differently! You go through exactly w3hatmostparrentsdo. Your baby is completely normal and this is the age, they do what everyone has described. Nancy

[Mamawise]

Hi

I am brand new here. I am about to go to a store tomorrow and put a deposit

On a baby African Grey. About 4 years ago I adopted a 2 year old

Male Ecclectus. After 2 trying years, lots of money on training books

DVDs etc and at the advice of local pet store owners that I had been

Working with I had to give him up because of a very difficult screeching

Behavior. I was devastated. I was under the impression that African greys

Were not prone to screeching and were gentle ?? I feel like I might be

Having second thoughts. I was so excited and looking forward to this new

Baby bird. Any thoughts

[aw64]

Mamawise, please dont be put off by my problems, Alfie came home at 10 weeks and was such a cuddle addict, he is now getting independent and trying to push me (which he manages) we do have some lovely times aswell, read through lots on her and ask questions the guys on here have so much good advice and all own various birds, they do need alot of time to build a relation ship, introduce yourself in the introduction room and the guys will all be along with welcomes and there to answer questions, how old is your new baby?

[murfchck]

Oh my, i didn't mean in any way to scare you away from a grey. They really are sweethearts. We all have our moments, bird and human!

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Sophie doesn't screech. I adopted her at age two, just when she started the terrible two's. Within six months, she was adorable. She is 12 now... I had a horrible day at work today.Got home and went and picked up my girl. She always calms me down and the kisses ( as well as the farts), just makes me always realize what is important. I can't imagine life without Sophie. She makes it amazing! Nancy

[EllieMae]

Aw , Don't feel so bad. My Sassy seem to hate my guts most of the time. She bites me every chance she gets and even runs across the floor to snag my slippers. Today has been a bit easier. No bites so far and she has flown to my arm without biting once landing. I suspect it was because she wanted the cracker I had in my hand. Sometimes she gets mad if I'm too close to Jack and she bites him because she can't reach me.