Just applied to adopt 2 Greys...so many questions - kinda long

[Cindyagogo]

Hi there...I am not yet owned by African Greys but will soon...maybe!

Soooo...I have had birds for many years in the past but limited to Gouldians, Zebras and Parakeets. I have always loved and been fascinated by birds, African Greys in particular but the time was never right to bring one home.

 

I have been too long without any pets and after a lot of thought, decided that I wanted to adopt parrots. I say parrots because I have only been looking for bonded pairs. My reasoning being that I am a working person so am not home for up to 8 1/2 to 9 hours a day. I saw a pair of "bonded" Amazons...bonded but couldn't stay in the same cage? Also, serious plucking problems...so that would have been overwhelming for my first parrots...2 giant cages and problems so I passed.

 

So I have been checking around and haven't come across any likely pairs until yesterday. I actually had stopped looking for a bit. Happened to stop in at the MSPCA to quickly drop off a donation. Buzzed into the bird room for a look see and there they were! 2 beautiful CAGs. A bonded pair (in the same cage) talking and whistling away. I couldn't believe my eyes! They were surrendered this week by someone with allergies. They appear to be very tame and in great health even though their diet for the last 6 months has been peanuts, noodles and bird seed. I went back today and put in my application. Meant to be?

 

Since I am out of the house up to 9 hours a day, I am worried that they may be alone too long during the day. I am single and live alone so I am it for company. Am I delusional that being a pair will help them not be lonely while I work? I would definitely have them out of the cage and playing whenever i am home. Okay, so this brings up another little thing...I read somewhere that Greys require alot of undisturbed sleep time and pretty much follow a schedule of when it is light and dark out. Up at dawn and settle to sleep at dusk. Disturbed sleep cycles can lead to behavior issues or ill health. Is this right? If it is light outside they don't sleep?

 

Do they startle easily? What happens if it is dark out when i come home, will they startle when i come in and turn on a light? My mind is going a mile a minute...what if, how do you...will they?

 

The cage they are in now is 36"W X 30"D X 62"H(inside). Does this sound like the minimum size they should have? They use all of their cage from what i can see...bottom, hanging upside down from the top, climbing the sides.....

 

I have been told and read that Greys are easy keepers but I have also read they are not easy...oiy!

 

How often do they need to see a vet for "checkups"? How often do they need toenails or beaks trimmed? Can I learn how to do those things? I know there is an outcry against clipping their flight feathers but....is it possibly an idea to keep them clipped until we are used to each other? They are so smart, I can just imagine them realizing I am a rookie and then flying to the top of the bookcases and never coming down.."Naner Naner, can't catch us!".

 

Being that I do work and am the only person in the household, should I not do this? I am experienced with small birds. I am quiet and patient. Though completely different, I have trained horses and dogs so understand the concepts. I want to do what is best for them.

 

Any thoughts, advice, "what ifs" that i may not have thought of? Enough questions for now...

 

Thanks,

Cindy

[Ray P]

Hi Cindy and welcome to the grey forum.

You have a lot of good questions, but the one thing you don`t want to do is over think what you want to do. Yes you should research on what it takes to be a care giver to any companion parrot.

One. is this pair of greys a breeding pair of greys, if so they may not make good companions as they will be bonded to each other.

Two. Is this pair male and female or two females or two males.

Many members have just one grey and also work all day. They leave a radio on when their gone to keep them company and when their home they spend as much time with them as they can.

All my birds are full flighted and they can get into anything and they do.

I am getting ready for work now so I am going to cut this short, But others will chime in and let you know what they think.

[Cindyagogo]

I am definitely an over thinker! They are a male and female pair. She apparently does lay eggs from time to time. Something to consider if they will prefer each other to interacting with me.

[Greywings]

Most likely they will always prefer each other, you mentioned they were friendly can you expand on that please? As Ray mentioned no need to over think but please do read some of our sticky threads to get some answers to many of your questions. We will be here to help you transition into a Grey bird person. Keep in mind that each Grey is unique and may not fit into what is average behavior you might have read about. Now some questions for you. Do they have ages on this pair? How long have they been together? Do you cook with non stick cookware? Do you smoke inside? Can you accept having a messy floor?

[Acappella]

Well, you've asked a bunch of questions, but I'm going to answer with a bunch for you to take back to the MSPCA with you to see if they can get the answers from the original owner. Actually, that's the first question - is the person who surrendered them the original owner? If so you should be able to find out their ages. What colour are their eyes? It's possible to make a rough guess of age up until the white of their eye turns a light yellow. Take a look around here for examples. Do they have proof of the genders? The only way the surrendering owner would know for sure is if there had been DNA sexing done. If those certificates exist make sure they come with the birds. When you say they are a bonded pair do you mean bonded as in buddies, or bonded as in 'hey, this is my mate so clean our cage, give us fresh food, but otherwise leave us alone, we're trying to make babies here' bonded? The first type could become companion parrots for you but it will take one on one work. The second type will not. Nothing is impossible of course, but a bonded breeding pair would have to be physically separated and would take months or years of re-hab to have any type of hands on relationship. If they are a breeding pair the MSPCA should be contacting established breeders about their adopting them - imho it's not a project for a novice. Just from your description I'm wondering if it's possible they were clutch mates adopted together.

 

The research you've done on sleep issues is correct. They need 10-12 hours of undisturbed sleep a night. Now, by undisturbed ... If they have a big cage in your living area during the day and you have them in sleep cages in your bedroom at night and turn on a bedside table briefly when you climb into bed, they will wake for a moment and go back to sleep when you turn out the light - not a catastrophe. If they have to sleep in the living room and you like to stay up until 2:00 am watching movies with surround sound - not gonna work even if you cover their cage. Dorian (my grey) has his own room. Well, it's my office and music room as well, but I don't use it after he has gone to bed. I'm dealing with a grumpy feathers today because last night I fell asleep on the couch with him on his playstand and didn't wake up to put him to bed until 11:00pm (bad parronting). A schedule is important. It doesn't have to be written in stone, but your bird will be happier and healthier if there is some preditability in their life. Lots of members here work full time, which means they have to wake up their bird before first light to change water and supply food for the day. Those birds likely do go back to sleep for a bit before full light, but don't rely on their napping to make up for a chronic lack of dark and quiet sleep. Lots of people here have to leave their birds alone for the day while they work. As long as they have plenty of things to keep them occupied, like toys, foraging, a radio left on ... and you give them lots of attention and out-of cage time once you're home they'll adjust and be fine.

 

As for wing clipping, lots of opinions and debate here and elsewhere on the issue. First you need to know if they are used to being allowed to fly. Example. My Dorian was clipped before he was even allowed to fledge. Then, for the first 4 years of his life the only time he was allowed out of his cage was to have his wings re-clipped. He was totally cage bound and terrified of hands when he came to me. It took months before he would venture out of his cage, years before he would step up onto my hand. Even though he has all of his feathers he doesn't really know he can fly. On occasions something scares him and he takes off, but he has no directional control and the landings are not good (although he has learned to slow down before he runs into walls, so the landings no longer make a sound that make my heart stop) These flights seem to scare him more than anything although he has on occasion, when I refuse to respond to his demands that I go to him, tried to seek me out with deliberate flight. Try to find out what they are used to. If they are flighted, can you live with that? It takes real discipline. You have to be conscious of where they are and whether they are caged every time you open a door or a window, and you have to enforce that same level of discipline with every visitor to your home. They will fly onto places you don't want them, or can't reach them, but that's where having a forum of people like us come in handy with ideas on coping with each challenge. There will be poop everywhere, and if they are chewers you may have to drape favourite possessions with layers of protection to save them from birdy destruction. Plus you'll have to deal with the attitudes of other people who can't understand why you would adjust your behaviour so drastically when you could just 'keep the bird in the cage'. But ... when I read here about birds joyfully following their owners from room to room under their own power, or flying through the house doing the grey pterodactyl scream during rambunctious playtime, my heart aches for my little guy and I wish I'd been his parront from day one so that he could be a flying pain in my butt. Lastly from me on feather trimming. Clipped birds can still fly and get away. Lots of stories on people with clipped birds who got startled by a loud noise or sudden movement and between adrenline and a stray breeze were never seen again, so don't make the mistake of thinking clippind a bird means you don't have to adjust your behaviour around the house re: open doors etc... Also, the most important thing when trying to establish a relationship with a new fid, especially a re-home, is to build trust. Before you work on training, or changing a diet, your first job is to work on gaining their trust. If they are used to flight and the first thing that happens to them with you is a clip . . .

 

Beak and talons trims. No set rules. Lots of people here never need to trim talons because their bird will perch part of the time on a concrete or pumice perch that dulls the needle sharp tip of the talon. Beak trims, unless there is a growth defect that disturbs their ability to funtion normally, are not usuallly necesary IMHO. I wouldn't put my bird through anything like that if it's only for cosmetic reasons. I do get Dorian's talons trimmed when I have to. He won't use any of the many perches I've offered through the years, so when my hands begin to look like I've placed them in a blender I call for a home visit from the evil towel lady. I prefer to pay someone else to do it so that I can be the hero who 'rescues' him.

 

You're right to be here researching and asking questions. The more information you have the better. Get every piece of info you can on this pair, ask all the questions here you want. Just know that however well prepared you are, they will still do something you never expected. At some point you have to take a leap of faith, but you have a great resource here of people who would love to see needy birds find their forever home.

[Timbersmom]

Excellent post and excellent advice for you there from Acappella. I take Timber for a nail trim about every six months (he sleeps on a concrete perch but still needs a trim). That is really something that is "bird specific."

[judygram]

Hello Cindy and welcome to our family.

You have been given some excellent advice so I can't add any more but giving us more information like Marguerite asked will help us to help you better but congrats on being willing to take in these two greys.

[Cindyagogo]

Hi all...Okay so the description of these 2 beauties as friendly is probably not the right word. They did not sidle away when i approached the cage or put my fingers against (not in) the cage. I have visited other parrots that immediately moved as far away as possible when anyone approached. They reacted more with curiosity...especially when i brought out the tape measure to size the cage they are in. They were definitely interested in what i was doing. They were whistling, talking and bopping to music when i visited the second time.

 

The owners who surrendered them were not the first owners. They didn't even know what kind of parrots they were, fed them a lousy diet and never let them out of the cage. How many owners there were before this family is uncertain....at least one other. They are a male and female pair. The MSPCA folks are very certain of that. Apparently they try to nest and the female has laid fertilized eggs. Does that automatically make them a breeding pair or are they just doing what comes naturally? They don't know how old they are or if they are siblings but are trying to trace the bands.

 

Their wings are not clipped. I don't know if that is because they have always been flighted or the flight feathers just grew out over time. I have not yet been allowed to see them outside the cage because the shelter was too busy with people coming and going. Truthfully, i didn't think to ask if they were ever clipped or not. I think i would leave them alone.

 

I don't smoke or cook with teflon pans. I never used them because I have had small birds in the past for years. I do tend to be a night owl so I would have to make accommodation for birdy bedtime. Since i am pescatarian having lots of fresh food for them isn't a problem minus the fish.

 

Thank you for the comments and insight!! This seems like an amazing group!

[danmcq]

Accapella gave great comments.

 

I hope this works out for you. You seem like a very caring person that has the best interest of those greys than anything else. In regards the pescatarian diet, fish is good for them occasionally.

 

Did they candle the eggs and thus know they were fertilized or did they actually allow them to hatch? If they are successfully breeding, they are both mature greys meaning they are probably 5 + years old at the least. I look forward to hearing more as this progresses.

[Greywings]

It would also not be unheard of if they were both female and set up house so to speak. Greys are complex and it may be in their best interest for them to be in a home where they are cared for, fed healthily and appreciated for just being them selves, no pressure to breed and no pressure not to. Allow them to show who they really are as facts are not readily available.

[Cindyagogo]

They candled the eggs to find out. They haven't been allowed to sit the eggs at the shelter or at the previous home. Still no information on the band trace they are doing. I did find out that the Marly, the male, prefers women and Nikka, his girlfriend, prefers men. Interesting they would have different preferences...just like people, all different personalities.

 

Still no word on whether i have been approved. I hope I am not in for disappointment. I called and left a message inquiring if they were close to deciding...I don't want to haunt them but I am on pins and needles here!!!

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Cindy... I am sure you will get approved! Opening your heart and home to these birds,is a GREAT thing. Unfortunately, what you are seeking, a bird that you can love, and love youin return, will NOT happen with two paired greys. You will be an "after thought!" I for one, don't believe in having two greys in a home, unless you have two people to love them. Of course this is just my opinion. Others may have success with two greys. Nancy

[Dave007]

Accapella gave great comments.

 

I hope this works out for you. You seem like a very caring person that has the best interest of those greys than anything else. In regards the pescatarian diet, fish is good for them occasionally.

 

Did they candle the eggs and thus know they were fertilized or did they actually allow them to hatch? If they are successfully breeding, they are both mature greys meaning they are probably 5 + years old at the least. I look forward to hearing more as this progresses.

 

As far as bonding, yes and no.

 

They could be 2 males and no eggs. Close friends

They could be 2 females with one or the other laying eggs ---infertile. Some female greys have done that.

You can have a male and female who have accepted each other as cage mates but don't mate even though the female may lay eggs. A bonded pair.

You can have a male and female --the eggs are there. The eggs are not fertile. After that happens a few times with the same result---That's a bonded pair.

If there's a male and female and the eggs are there and the eggs are fertile

That's a proven bonded pair

On the selling market, there's a big difference between the two (bonded---proven bonded) many people waste their money if they're looking for a pair of breeders because they don't know the difference

 

Should you separate them? Personally, I feel it's not a good idea. They've already bonded with each other in some way.

[Greywings]

Well described by Dave and it does give you a guide line. I live with four Greys and have excellent relationships with two of them one of the others is my friend but adores our youngest son. For another I am merely room service and the provider of cleaning service functions, he adores our next oldest son. To complicate things the TAG is fascinated by the largest silvery CAG and it is not mutual. Pookie can share a cage top with our Elanora Too but not with any other Greys. Whisper CAG is quick to chase all others away from her palace. Smokey Joe CAG loves to enter other cages, play with toys and sample food dish contents and little Smartee Pants is the most territorial of all our FIDS, even though he moons over Whisper. The dynamics of any flock will vary between individual birds and may change some what over time.