chelsearv Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 We brought Fred home last night and set his cage up in the center of activity. When I opened the cage door, he immediately came out and looked around. He accepted food from our hands, preened, ate, drank and napped. He would NOT step up to be put in the cage for bedtime. We couldn't leave him out, so we eventually had to use a towel to guide him toward the opening. I didn't like using the thing he feared most on his first night, but we had to move him. We woke this morning and opened the cage. Because he is eager and animated, we have assumed that letting him be on top of his cage was the best plan for helping him settle in and enjoy his surroundings. But again, we cannot get him to step up for anything - snacks, attention, praise and most of all, going back into the cage. I see a trend starting where he gets to dictate whether or not he steps up and I don't want to reinforce that. Should he be left in his cage for a few days and mostly ignored (while being in the room and talking softly)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinner Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) First off - do not ignore and leave him in his cage. That will eventually grow into a bird that is feeling ignored, and one of the base issues here is that Fred wants to be out with his flock. There are four things that will get Fred to go back into his cage: Motivation Patience and Perseverance Practice and Consistency Praise and Reinforcement (see motivation above) When you said you brought Fred home last night, I presume he is a new-to-you bird, and that this was his first day home. Is he a juvenile bird? If so, give him some time to get used to his surroundings and learn a routine. It will be difficult at first, but again, be patient. To get ihm back in his cage you can always gently pick him up and replace him on a perch in his cage. Try to stay away from herding him in. I always recommend Barbara Heidenreich's training videos for hurdles like this. They are proven, safe, and based on good science. You will also need to find something for the reward and reinforcement. Watch what kind of treats and food Fred has available to him while out of the cage. Keep it to a minimum and get him interested in taking food from you. This will help in training efforts. I'm not suggesting withholding necessary food, just minimize any excess so he is not food satiated. Others will chime in with their recommendations. Edited February 13, 2013 by Spinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsearv Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Thank you for your response. Fred is 13 years old and he is a new bird to us. I had a conure growing up and understand positive reinforcement, routine, patience and including him in our 'flock' activities. The immediate problem is how to help him adjust right now with the appropriate amount of out-of-cage time and getting him back in when we need to leave/sleep. If I go to pick him up, he is going to bite me (based on his body language), which I can handle. I think you are spot on with the point about food outside of the cage. When we picked Fred up last night, he was eating on top of his cage and he successfully avoided every single attempt his owners made to get him to step up. He hasn't had food outside of his cage for several hours now. I guess I'll give him another hour or so to go in on his own. If not, I'll pick him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acappella Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 So, how's it going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsearv Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Thank you for asking. It's much better! I posted a more descriptive response at http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?198383-Biting-attacks We are currently employing a rather odd routine to get him in the cage at night. I hope to modify it soon to allow him for more UN-interrupted sleep. We put him on his cage around 8pm and shut off all the lights near his room. He quickly falls asleep on top of the cage. Then, around 9:30, we come in and turn on all the lights. He thinks it is morning, saying 'good morning' and stretching. We then take out a bunch of crunchy food and start to make a big show of eating. He immediately climbs into his cage to examine the contents of his food bowl. I then close his cage door and offer him a great snack as a thank you for going to bed. Lights go out again. It sounds silly but it's working for now. Hopefully soon he'll go right in when it's bedtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Thank you for asking. It's much better! I posted a more descriptive response at http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?198383-Biting-attacks We are currently employing a rather odd routine to get him in the cage at night. I hope to modify it soon to allow him for more UN-interrupted sleep. We put him on his cage around 8pm and shut off all the lights near his room. He quickly falls asleep on top of the cage. Then, around 9:30, we come in and turn on all the lights. He thinks it is morning, saying 'good morning' and stretching. We then take out a bunch of crunchy food and start to make a big show of eating. He immediately climbs into his cage to examine the contents of his food bowl. I then close his cage door and offer him a great snack as a thank you for going to bed. Lights go out again. It sounds silly but it's working for now. Hopefully soon he'll go right in when it's bedtime. I personal don't feel this is good for your baby, it's disrupting, and disturbing to the bird. As time goes on your Grey is going to expect this, are you prepared to continue this practice? What happens when you discontinue doing this? Mental issues? Thanks Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsearv Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Thank you for your input. At this time, this is the preferred approach as the alternative involves intense biting. His previous family never put him in his cage, not at night nor during the day when they left for work. As he learns to trust us, we will transition to a better routine. Because this has only been the method for 5 or less of the 10 days he's been with us, I think we'll all switch smoothly to a better system when the time is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) Thank you for your input. At this time, this is the preferred approach as the alternative involves intense biting. His previous family never put him in his cage, not at night nor during the day when they left for work. As he learns to trust us, we will transition to a better routine. Because this has only been the method for 5 or less of the 10 days he's been with us, I think we'll all switch smoothly to a better system when the time is right Thank you, my input is backed by scientific research. In some cases it's considered abusive. The basic fact of letting the parrot [or human or any other animal] in a dark condition, for any length of time only to wake them up out of sleep or just resting can create a false stimulus, which can lead to, mental and psychological problems which lead to irreparable harm.....Even after the short time you've been doing this, problems could already exist. There are many post and threads on this forum and others on how to handle a problem like yours without resorting to such drastic measures. It has taken us up to 4+ years to try and resolve issues with re-homed and rescued parrots. Please reconsider what you are doing and seek out an alternative method which will not cause harm to this wonderful creature, toweling is less harmful and accepted to handle this condition....Jayd Edited February 24, 2013 by Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acappella Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I wonder if he would be more receptive to a step-up after an hour in the near dark, without putting all the light back on. Make the room dark, but not completely dark. Leave the room. All this will signal the day is at an end. Then after a little while go back into the room quietly, say 'bedtime' and try getting him to step up, onto a perch if your hand is still too piercable lol. Try putting the perch (or brave arm) infront of him, and a hand behind him on his back if you can reach. I know Dorian is much more maleable after he's already half asleep. Like Jay said, even if you end up having to use a small towel on your hand behind him to guide him, it's not the end of the world. They actually like routine. If you are consistant and don't let him win, he'll soon know that bedtime is non-negotiable. Dorian used to make me chase him around his playstand and night, but he soon got the message that once the lights were low he was never going to win this particualar battle, and now he steps up with little fuss. Other than at bedtime, it sounds like he is a joy. Can't wait to hear more details about his emerging personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Nighttime occurs gracefully, first long shadows then dusk then dark, whether we had 5 or 50 parrots in the house at any given time, the light would go out slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsearv Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 Update to the bedtime routine: Fred is still pretty annoyed with the idea that humans get to decide when it's time to go in the cage, regardless of the time of day. And he is so aware of our sneaky snack attempts (we make a very obvious demonstration of dropping a beloved snack item in the food dish only to receive a haughty stare in return) that it isn't even funny. How we have changed things: We started making several 'back to cage' attempts during the day when the stakes were lower. If he started to exhibit nervous or aggressive body language, we retreated and just stood still and spoke softly to him. We would often break up failed attempts with another activity so that the next attempt would be a 'restart'. With frequent snacks and repetition, we started being able to get him in the cage during the day. Night time has still been tricky, but we start much earlier now. Much too early for his bedtime, we make our first attempt. If he goes in for a bite or a rapid assent up the arm, we retreat and return to other activity. Time passes....next attempt....etc. What has ended up happening is he ends up in bed within an hour early/late of what we'd like to be his bedtime (based on when we'd like to go to bed). So it's working! Fewer interrupted sleep cycles for dear, super smart Fred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbersmom Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Sounds like Fred has you trained pretty well! Seriously, good going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Nice job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Good job! As much as we hate it, bedtime starts around 6-7 depending on what time dinner will be ready. We feed them dinner in their cage now mostly because it is so much easier to get them in there with food, lol. Lights are on for eating along with their tvs, after eating its lights off and tv still on, little more play time then tvs off and its nite nite time. Both bird rooms have night lights for them also. After a few months doing this, when i reach for a pan or pot now, both Bongo and Gabby fly to my shoulder to see "whats cooking" and try hard to help me get it done faster! When it goes into their bowls, its a contest to see who can get to me the quickest to go back to their cage for dinner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielaWelborn Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I feel you. I had an issue this morning. Jellybean would not cooperate. I had to us a solo cup. He loves solo cups. I bribed him. It was not pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbersmom Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 LOL It is never pretty, but you have to do what you have to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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