Reduced me to tears!

[aw64]

Why am I having so many problems, just to re cap Iv had alfie since he was 10 wks he is now nearly 10 months, i feel like I am getting know where, Alfie still flys to my shoulder/head even after advice to shake him off (gently), I am getting bitten alot not enough to draw blood yet but very painful, I have him out of cage alot and he is flighted, this afternoon i was getting tea ready with alfie present i was doing veg so throught it would be fun to let him join in, first he was on my shoulder when trying to get him to stop up he kept bitting once I did manage to get him on to kitchen work top he had no intrest in veg just the knife and bit me when I prevented him from having this! If he lands on TV I always get him to step up as dont want him on TV again I get bitten, getting back in cage is another battle, he has play stand and freedom, lots of free time, lots of toys and company from me, where am I going wrong, i'm starting to think I'm no good at this and must be missing somthing.

[Jayd]

Your not doing wrong, please calm down, Alfie can sense your stress. It appears that your "shake him off" tactics is being read as a " it's ok to do it." Start fresh, Take him to the bedroom, darken the room and sit on the bed, just sit and relax while talking to Alfie, touch, sing and the both of you just relax, if Alfie lands on your shoulder, just ignore him, after a few times of doing this, as Alfie to step-up, [were talking days not minutes] When Alfie in the cage, read and talk to him, take a souffle cup, put a treat in it and treat him, bond in quite and love, For now, keep Alfie caged at times when you can't give 100% attention.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

aw64. Alfie is needing rules. He is doing great! Now... time to develop rules. Wrist status only. When he bites... say No! Return to cage, try again in five minutes. ( close and lock the cage!). Birds excel, once they understand what the expectations are. Nancy

[danmcq]

Jay gave great bonding advice for you and Alfie.

 

"first he was on my shoulder when trying to get him to step up he kept bitting"

 

- Of course he did. You have no control over him when your offering your hand for a step up. Thus he thinks to himself "No, I don't wish to".. then firmly grabs your hand indicating he has no desire to leave your shoulder. What I would suggest doing, is one of two things. 1) swoosh him off your shoulder with your hand in a safe direction which will force him to fly. 2) Just lean forward quick enough in a safe direction that he will need to fly due to not being able to maintain balance. Then, do not let him fly back to your shoulder.

 

"once I did manage to get him on to kitchen work top he had no interest in veg just the knife and bit me when I prevented him from having this!"

 

- Of course he did, that shiny interesting knife looked like a great item to check out. He already knows what the veggies and fruits are. He wants to imitate you, his flock mate and learn to use the knife. Again, you need to use a gentle swooshing action with your arm to keep him away and tell him "No Knife, be careful" as you do so. Do not offer your hand, he will clamp down as you are learning.

 

"If he lands on TV I always get him to step up as don't want him on TV again I get bitten"

 

- Yes, you are again offering an unprotected hand that is easily clamped down on letting you know he is not ready to get down. If you are going to persist in using your hand. Ball it up in a fist and tuck your thumb under (fist of iron) then offer the back of your tightly drawn hand for a step up as you push it gently under him. He cannot bite or clamp down on the hard and tight skin of the back of your hand. Then move him to where you wish.

 

I know I sound like a broken record, but if you or I for that matter offer a soft finger or hand that is easily bitten/clamped down on when they have something or are some place they wish to be, it will happen 90 percent of time. The other 10 percent, they may just wish to do so because they are done there anyway.

Edited January 15, 2013 by danmcq

[Ray P]

Jay has given you some great advice.

I have a thread called A soft voice, A gentle touch, Your presence and Patience.

Its you that can make the difference.

Before you make rules you must start and have a relationship along with bonding and be able to understand your parrots needs and wants before your needs and wants.

[aw64]

Thanks guys, just read your thread Ray, inbetween these bad times I can do head rubs (tickle tickle), alfies cage is right next to where I sit so we chat alot, and I use treats alot, after reading what you have all put I think we need some alone time as suggested in the bedroom as thinking about it most of the problems are during the day and normaly when I am trying to do other things, so how does this sound for a new plan, some free time during the morning, then an hour of just us time in the bedroom away from everything and the same during the evening.

Putting alfie back in his cage after bites would not be so easy as by the time I manage to get him in he would not realize it was because he had bitten me, i have got a room he can go into upstairs with a large play gym but tend not to use it too much as throught he needed to be with me hence why I try to have him out as much as possible.

I wish you guys lived closer would be so nice to see how you all do it, I worry if this is what we're like now what will it be like when we get to 2 years old the age every one seems to have problems with, please keep all support coming it does give me strength to brush myself down and start again x

[Luvparrots]

One thing to remember is that it is hard for anyone, grey or person to know when it is okay to do something and when it is not. How is a grey to know when it is okay to be on a shoulder or counter-top and when it is not? You must be consistent in what you let your grey do. Either a grey can be on your shoulder or it cannot. It can be on the counter-top or it cannot. To remove any confusion, you must be consistent and persistent in what is right and what is wrong.

[aw64]

I really dont want alfie on my shoulder and have always tried removing him by step up or when that fails moving in a way he has to fly off but it never seems to stop him, this morning we have spent time alone in the bed room and he sits on top of door while I shower this all went ok until we came back down put him on play stand for a while then it was time to go home (cage) that was a battle and got bitten even with a tight fist he manages to bit my wrist or bent his head down to get edge of fingures, I always use treats which he will take and has even mastered flying to the arm i have out then in double quick time flys to the hand with the treat takes it and is on his way, this bird seems to out wit me in every possible way, I would normaly still have him out now but to avoid the battles he has been caged so i can get some house hold tasks done

[murfchck]

Time in the cage is ok, even they need alone time. If you are insistant on using your hand, expect the bite. Try using a step up stick instead for a bit, see if it isn't easier for you. Letting him continue to bite you the same way time after time is teaching him its okay to do that, change it up and try to get him thinking about why it changed. Routines are good, but if it isn't working, try to establish a new one that will work for the both of you.

[aw64]

Thanks for that murfchck, will be giving that ago asap

[danmcq]

then it was time to go home (cage) that was a battle and got bitten even with a tight fist he manages to bit my wrist or bent his head down to get edge of fingers <snip> I would normally still have him out now but to avoid the battles he has been caged so i can get some house hold tasks done

 

You are doing great! When you know he is starting to bend down to nip your wrist or fingers, just wobble your arm enough to throw him off balance. He will automatically right himself. This takes a little practice, but you will get the hang of it. He will also come to know after several iterations of this and he will slow greatly or maybe even stop trying. The key is to always be alert to what he is doing. You will get to where you feel his weight shift and will automatically wobble your hand/arm.

 

Most of us do cage our birds to alleviate issues with them trying to get involved, bother us and maybe even try to get things that could be hazardous to them that we are using. It is better for them and us in the long run and they get used to it quickly. If you are in eye or ear shot of his cage, just tell him what you are doing.

 

At only 10 months old, he is very much a baby and is learning lessons he will use the rest of his entire life. You are at this moment in time determining how he will respond to any given situation based upon what he learns. Don't worry about the terrible twos... some greys breeze right through it with not much change, others become hell on wheels as a rebellious child trying to get their way. Just focus on the "Now".

[aw64]

Thanks danmcq, you are all helping me sooooo much, just had another hour in the bedroom (glad you all know what I mean!) it went well only went on my head once, we were both on the bed and called alfie to my lower arm few times he came and had treat, took spare perch up with me which I left on the bed and low and behold he was fine with it and brought him back down stairs and into cage on it, without any problems, it is getting dusk here and I left lights off to do this but it was a positive moment, starting to think now I was more focused on him being out of the cage and was sure after having him at such a young age (10wks) and hand feeding him formula we had a bond, when in the cage i can do anything with him, head tickles through the bars which he always comes for , touching his feet, and he always steps up to come out without any problems, so maybe now we will do less free time and more one to one in the bedroom by that I dont mean he will be caged for days on end, you guys have been so kind with your replys please keep them coming, just as a matter of intrest how old are your birds as i now wonder if I was going to fast or rather expecting to much to soon.

[murfchck]

I have a 6 yr old (pictured) and a 20 yr old ( who had more time outs tonight then we could count. Hubby had his glasses on which is rare and she just did not like them at all, no way. After a few times in her cage, she stopped nipping at the glasses but then started ripping our kitchen chairs.) Moral of that story, the teaching never ends, lol. Your doing great!

[Ray P]

Corky is 12 years old as of last December and from time to time she still thinks she is boss. (she is but we don`t let her know that)

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Sophie is 12 now. Adopted at age two. We got her when she was going thru the terrible twos! YIKES! What worked best for us, since she wanted to be with anyone, showed no preferance until later in life, was being consistent as a family. We all agreed on " no shoulder status until she understood". We were consistent on her education. You have no idea how many phone calls I got from the kids on her behavior! LOL. It worked out... we were very consistent, and she learned what was acceptable behavior. Most parents have a problem being consistent with their expectations, so a bird can't learn what you expect. They soooooo desire to learn. You may be the " bad guy" at times, but it is so important to be consistent. Of course, the bird needs to trust and respect you before they will even consider listening to you.Sophie's education began after she trusted us and desired to be a part of our family. Without the trust, understanding we will keep her safe, there was no point for her to change her ways. Believe me.... Sophie is a manipulator. She knows exactly which buttons to push for each member in the house. Luckily, we all know it and get a kick out of her.What she doesn't know, is we communicate with each other, and know what she is doing! We all satisfy her needs, as her needs are different for all of us. She takes the lead.... we all follow. Nancy

[chezron]

Try to decrease biting by only handling your bird when it gives clear signals that it will cooperate. Anything you can do to lessen biting as an automatic reaction is good. To get your bird to move you do not always have to get your bird to step-up. I use a saucepan lid anytime I want Brutus to move from where he currently is. He knows what the lid means, and now all I have to do is pick the lid up and he flies away. I do not pick up my bird unless he is offering his foot or giving me clear body language that he will be kind and gentle. In fact, when he wants to wrestle, he used to get a little rough and bite down. Now I grab his beak and redirect him and say, "be kind and gentle." He knows what it means now. He plays much nicer now and does not get carried away. I can pick him up anytime now and I feel assured that he will not bite because he knows "kind and gentle."

Try to give choices. When you had the situation with the knife, give your bird a more exciting alternative to distract him from the knife, and often the bird will prefer the alternative and the situation is resolved easily and without conflict. Do not let your bird on your shoulder. Bend over and shake him off. The shoulder is a place that is easily abused. My bird gets to sit in my lap where I have control over the situation. Any decision you make you must not waver. If you decide to not let your bird on your shoulder, never let your bird on your shoulder.

There are places my bird is not allowed, like my desk, the stove, part of the kitchen, and Brutus doesn't even try to land on them anymore because I was relentless on shooing him off so he knows not to even try. They really want to cooperate. I think it is more a matter of letting him know what he can do and not so much a matter of correcting him. Try to stay away from corrections and negativity and encourage good behavior.

[aw64]

Good advice chezron but how do you get him back in the cage, example today had a couple of hours break from work so let Alfie out, cleaned cage ect but when it came time to return to his cage it was hell, tried hand held perch would get on it but then flew off, even drawed blood today on my hand try tight fist he just manages to get side of fingure or hand.

[chezron]

Good question about getting him back in the cage. We used to use favorite toys and/or treats. We jiggled the toys and made them seem REALLY enticing, and that usually worked, although, sometimes it took the better part of an hour. But in the end it was HIS decision to return to the cage, and he made it of his own free will, which I think is really important. Also, at night we turned off all the lights to get him to step up willingly. He is much more trusting and sweet when he can't see. ha ha. Once again, I minimize handling or asking things that will likely not be popular requests when I know the chances of success are slim. Parrots do not understand dominance. To them, you are an equal and you are just being mean when you try to force things. They also don't forget when you are mean and raise your voice. A good relationship must be built on trust. CAGs like to know they are of value and a contributing member of the flock. My guy knows because I frequently tell him how much I value him and all the things he does right. Just the other day I told him I love to listen to him talk and I would really like him to talk more, and you know what, he is talking more now. I do not underestimate how intelligent my parrot is, nor do I overestimate my own intelligence. I think that is a mistake that some owners make when they try to dominate. It might work for dogs, but it does not work for birds. Maybe, change the cage cleaning schedule to a time when he is more submissive, like close to bed time? Just a thought...

Edited January 26, 2013 by chezron

[aw64]

feel better as its never took an hour, prob just tempted fate now! the night thing with lights out does work its night here now and we have just had a great hour or so with the the lamp on and TV, Alfie sat on my leg having tickle tickle ect then when I said bed time it was easy step up and straight in cage with a treat but day time is sooooo different and even if I close the blinds its not dark enough!

could do with a month where there was nothing else to do no work, no house work, no cooking ect, ummmmm nice throught, love the way you think chezron, how old is your baby, is he your only bird?

Thanks for help and advice.

[chezron]

Hi AW64. I have 3 parrots from 5 to 12 years old. One is a rehome. He is my easy one. Just to let you know they never stop learning and growing. Brutus (CAG), who normally hates water, took a bath all by himself for a change! Pancho, the Panama Amazon, can now fly back to his cage and land successfully! I make sure and fall all over them with praise when they accomplish these new behaviors. My most difficult one is a Quaker Parakeet as he is very willful and domineering. Sometimes he has to spend a little time in his cage when he gets too full of himself. He thinks he is the king of world and owns all of the cage real estate within sight.

[aw64]

arrrh you have a great flock they must keep you very busy, you are soooo lucky, dont think I will ever be in a position to have more but never throught I would own an African Gray, I dont know how you cope, to think I spend so much time worrying about one, but alfie is my first bird apart from a budgie who sadly passed away, hence why I went in this direction, the last 8 months have been a real exciting time but clearly not with out problems, it was a real eye opener when alfie suddenly began to find his way from being a 10 week old to fully flighted and learning his beak has so much influence on his flock (me), strange thing is we have two dogs which are great with alfie but alfie will dive at the one, the other he never bothers with I have never worked this one out, guess i never will, been nice meeting you, so to say, keep in touch and keep the advice coming I need as much as I can get, take care.