trying to establish a new normal

[DanielaWelborn]

which is that Jellybean does not bite me.

I finally got over my fear and offer my hand to beak several times a day.

Jellybean is generally very gently, I say "gentle" and if it is too hard "no bite".

Jellybean will still not step up on my hand, which might have to do with me using a glove because I was afraid of being bit. I can acknowledge that.

I can also not scratch him or touch him in any other way than on his beak.

Do any of you see a problem with that and what should I work on , besides working with him without the glove.

Any input is appreciated...please be gentle

Edited January 7, 2013 by DanielaWelborn

[katana600]

Something that resonated with me after a couple of unexpected panic bites is the description that "a grey is very subtle and will go to great lengths before resorting to biting". Unfortunately for me, Gilbert's got a well tuned poker face and he was such a bundle of nerves that he didn't know how to give a warning, almost like he didn't expect it himself. So, if you are offering your hand to Jellybean and he is taking treats, you are on the right road. You know how much love and affection you have to offer, but Jellybean is learning. Gilbert knows how to step up and I ask him and get rejected hundreds and hundreds of times, then out of the blue he will step up for me and I stay close to his cage and offer for him to go back even though I want to dance gleefully. As he gets comfortable, he will make steps toward you, it seems old to hear that it takes time, but you are advancing past the glove and getting to the beginning of a trusting touch for both of you.

[lisachristine]

[I]"This is upsetting. Rosie seems not comfortable to me. I would never chase my bird around the cage like that. I have now idea what training we are talking about. I am still upset having watched this video. You might mean well but I don't think you have any clue. Patience.....go slow...trust....it takes time!!!!"

The only advice is the advice you gave me. And please be gentle with others.

Edited January 7, 2013 by lisachristine

[DanielaWelborn]

Of course...thank you

[lisachristine]

How old is Jellybean and is he a rehomed bird? Cute name by the way!

[DanielaWelborn]

He is 4 years old and I am the third owner.

The last owner was an active duty soldier, trying to establish a relationship with the bird but couldn't, because of his time away.

The last owners wife, a very nice lady, tried to make up for it. The reason I picked up Jellybean is because they had two children and are now expecting two more (twins). It was a space issue for them.

They had an add on Craigslist and I did some research and wanted to adopt a bird, as oppose to get a baby.

So, here we are... and I knew what I got into...that is why his trusting me just this little bit is so important.

I will be his forever home...like it or not:)

I took the attitude of letting the bird set the pace and it has worked for me. I feel we are making progress...

So, here we are... three month and I am in love with this bird.

Thank you for asking

[danmcq]

Where is jellybean when you are working with him on a step up? If it's in the cage, that is his safety zone and not the best place to work with him on this. Many greys prefer to come out of the cage on their own power, unless they specifically raise that foot as you request a step or question such as "Want Out?". The best place to gain trust is in a neutral area such as a T Stand or other area he perches on and hangs out. Next use the "fist of iron" by tighly balling your hand up in a fist with thumb underneath to keep the skin on top tight. Slowly move it toward and under him as you ask for a step up. The key here is you do not need to have fear of getting bitten (Which they sense) because they cannot bite the back of your hands tight skin. Work on this perhaps using the other hand offering a treat as a reward he can get only by stepping n to your hand. This is the first stages of building the trust you need to establish the beginnings of a relationship with him.

 

I do not know why you are trying at this time to touch him in other areas. Many greys do not like being touched anywhere on their body unless they have chosen a cuddle muffin type relationship with a person and willingly bow their head down for a neck scratch. Trying to touch a body part for the most part is considered a hostile and fear inducing reaction from them because predators like hawks try to grasp them for a kill from the back. Just work on the step up and building trust for now and getting him to just perhaps allow you to carry him for example to a chair or couch and hang out with you while sitting on your leg while watching tv or reading a book. More intimate interaction will only come later at his comfort level and trust.

Edited January 7, 2013 by danmcq

[DanielaWelborn]

Usually I let him come out of his cage and he then flies to where I am at, if I am not on my desk.

Good advise on the step up, thank you. I just step back a bit and let him set the pace again. That has worked best for me.

As for the touching, I didn't mean to harass him by any means and I should be happy with the progress all in all. For some reason just tried yesterday and stopped immediately because he did not appreciate it at all.

Thanks again.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

DanielaWellborn... as many have pointed out, working with jellybean, should always be away from the cage, or on the cage door. I have never put my hand inside their cage to work on stepup or down. I'd be asking for a bite. When you mentioned, " Be gentle!" Why did you say this? Nancy

[DanielaWelborn]

To make it clear: I am not putting my hand inside his cage. I am respecting his area. Don't even know where and why this came up?

Be gentle is outside the cage and he has bitten me very hard in the past. That would be why.

This thread is going wrong somewhere.....

[Jayd]

I hope this might help....Don't give up, Joe is just one of our many rescues....

Rescue #1 JOEY

 

Joey: Congo African Grey Parrot

Present Age: Four years old

Abuse Type: Mental and Severe Psychological (No visible sign of Physical abuse)

Background:

We know the pet store that Joey had originally been purchased from. He had been weaned and clipped, never allowed to fly. For the next two years we had no record and we have not been able to speak to the previous owners. After purchasing Joey and with some help also with help from Joey himself, we have been able piece together some of his past history and his previous owners.

His previous owners were a well-established young couple. The female was never fond of any types of pets, did not fit her lifestyle. Joey had favored the male and there had been a bonding but it wasn’t a healthy bonding. Shortly after getting Joey, which brought problems to the marriage, the male was more interested in maintaining harmony than integrating Joey.

This brought about bickering over Joey between the two owners with the female getting more and more agitated, putting him in a small room by himself, being ignored by both of them except for cage cleaning, food and water. There was a lot of arguments that took place within earshot of Joey, possible marital abuse, yelling at Joey by both of them, cage being tapped, arguments about whether to keep Joey or get rid of him.

At this point, the owners decided, (not mutually) to get rid of Joey. So, at this point, Joey and his cage was taken to a pet store where the owner agreed to hold him for awhile and let Joeys owners visit him for a while (which was wrong). They only visited him three times over the next six months, arguing in his presence each time. At this point in time, we took Joey into our hearts and home.

 

The Homecoming:

We didn’t know this young Grey’s name, so we called him Jim (Kirk) to go along with Spock. At this time, we had enough birds for everyone in the city. He was a quiet bird and would sit in his cage in the back and be soundless. He would let you change his water and food (he had been on seeds only diet). He would also shake if you came near the cage and would constantly head-search while chewing his toe-nails. He was extremely neurotic…he was a small bird and looked like he might have been stunted from lack of a proper diet. We introduced him to everyone and we did not attempt to hold him. We talked to him and talked to our other fids in front of him. If we saw that he was being extremely nervous, we would go out of our way to stop and talk to him with a “Hi Jim” etc, and we were slowly discovering the depth of his psychological and mental abuse. We left the cage door open whenever we were home and awake which at this stage was 24/7.

One day, Jay left the room and in the most concerned voice, Joey called out “Hello! Are you okay?” When Jay came back, Joey was standing at the open door looking down the hallway, looking for Jay to come back. He would also say “Hello”, “How are you?” at this time. He also started talking to himself…bringing up his past two years. While shaking badly, he would say things like “Are you going to feed me?” “Get a lawyer”, “You can run but you can’t hide!” “LIAR!”

He would make crying sounds…he would do this while we were not in the room (plus other things too sad to say). During this period, we were introducing him to all sorts of fresh veggies and fruits. (It has taken over a year to get him to eat veggies and fruits)

Besides his ruminations, he also started talking, calling to the other fids, calling us by name, singing but always reverting to his old self and chewing his nails and shaking. Out of nowhere, as Jay and I were walking by his cage, he looked Jay straight in the eye and said, “I’m Joey, NOT Jim”. He told us this twice (imagine us with our jaws on the ground) and we had to start changing his name on our threads.

Now and into the Future:

Joey lets us hold him and play with him more each day. He is coming out of the closet so to speak…he is an ideal parrot in a number of ways but it is all from his abuse years. He has built his life on his own routines. He eats at the same time each day, he talks at the same time each day, he preens himself at the same time each day…he definitely has obsessive-compulsive tendencies. For the last two months we have not heard him say anything from his abusive past. He has a growing vocabulary and strong cognitive abilities which we believe has roots in his abusive years. He lets us hold him when he wants to. At times, he is very cage-territorial and he stays on his cage. He will perch and let you take him from his cage for a few moments only. We have a perch on the outside of his cage and he likes to spend most of his time looking out the window. He is extremely vocal and interacts with Spock and Salsa and lets both of them eat and drink from his bowls and he plays tail-chase with both of them on his cage. He is very insecure anywhere away from his cage. It is an ongoing process to try to get him comfortable enough to stay away from his cage. He has attempted to fly on four-five occasions to fly and they have been disastrous. This is definitely due to the fact that he was constantly clipped. (We have set out pillows on his common landing areas that is more often missed than hit.)

At times, he will revert to something that triggers his bad memories and will pin his eyes and draw blood out of the clear blue. Once he snaps out of it, he is very affectionate and loving.

The Future continues:

On-going Progress: In the last couple of weeks, Joey has made some amazing changes. To everyone’s surprise, when you open his cage in the morning, he will hang from the top of the cage, wait for you to support him with your hand and involve you in beaky play. He will hang with one foot and grab your hand with the other (Yikes!) and play roughly while talking to you. (Non-Sexual) He’s molting and he’s also found out that a human finger is excellent for rubbing the pin feathers at the bend of the leg where it touches the body. In the few moments that he lets you hold him, he has leaned against our chest (on his own) and cuddled.

Now and Beyond:

Daily, you can still see the pain that he has endured. When he thinks we are not observing him, he reverts to his shaking and nail chewing to a lesser extent. His most recent trait that the past is still current in is memory is when we have to leave, he will let out a couple of loud contact calls and puff up to almost twice his size and stare and you and call while you are leaving. It is so sad…

They NEVER forget…any abuse is a major and daily part of their lives and they live with it….it is always there to haunt them.

Jayd and Maggie

 

Here's our latest post on Joe...http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?189638-Grey-Cognition-and-language-abilities

[danmcq]

So, here we are... and I knew what I got into...that is why his trusting me just this little bit is so important.

I will be his forever home...like it or not:)I took the attitude of letting the bird set the pace and it has worked for me. I feel we are making progress...

So, here we are... three month and I am in love with this bird.

Thank you for asking

 

You are making progress and will be successful in helping him flourish under your care and love. I hope to hear of each and everything step forward he makes. It is very interesting to read of each unique greys progress.

[Greywings]

Every little step is a victory for him as well as you and you can enjoy that moment with him, very good!

[forummehta]

You know...This sounds exactly like Miki(my CAG). I got her 3 months back and is around 4 yrs old. I used to be really scared of her bite...But by reading a lot about their body language..I could make out when she didnt want me to touch her:

1. First of all..make sure if she likes to be in the cage or does she prefers staying out. (miki hates the cage..she gets really wild and scared when in the cage..so only when she's out..she lets me touch her)

2. By now..you must be knowing what food she likes best.. Like in my mix of food.. Miki likes peanuts the best. So I stopped putting the peanuts in her fruit bowl and would give her peanuts only by hand.

3. Once she starts accepting food from your hand... try and bribe her..I keeP the peanut in one hand...and I stick only 1 finger out (shes scared of the hand so im allowed only to stick one finger ouT!) AND THEN i TELL HER.."Let me pet u" and very slowly and gently I pat her beak..after a few days I touched her head..but not petting..she doesnt allow that yet..its just a 1 secoond touch.

4. when do u have to be careful?? - look out for her moving her head away from your hand.. and look out for any feathers fluffing out..and any growling noises. If shes quiet and is sitting confortably..then go ahead..give your finger..dont be scared.

5. Lastly..trust her..even if she does give you a bite (i got one or 2 but they were just nips- so didnt hurt at all)...dont move away. In fact..keep your finger right there..just a little far and keep moving it ahead. If you get scared and take it away..it will encourage her to bite you..And dont lose hope..it will happen in some time..You just have to be patient..

[mrsray]

"give your finger..dont be scared. Lastly..trust her..even if she does give you a bite (i got one or 2 but they were just nips- so didnt hurt at all)...dont move away."

 

easier said than done LOL (at this stage now myself, and it's just "instinct" to move away)