lisachristine Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) I'm teaching Rosie how to step-up (we say foot instead) however she won't put her second foot on my arm. She has been doing this for 6 months. Should I let her do this in her own time or do I get a little more aggressive with her? I'm really afraid of breaking the trust that I have built with her for the last two years. As you can see I can feed her with no problem (when she came to me two years ago I thought that it would be impossible to even put my hand NEAR the cage). I think her growling and scream is a combination of a learned behavior and a dominance thing. I am not afraid of her bites, but don't want her to be afraid of me. As you can see in the second video taken only moments after, she is back to playing and being vocal. I even get her to do one of her tricks at the very end!! So, is little girl just being stubborn or what?? What do you think of her body language? Edited January 5, 2013 by lisachristine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielaWelborn Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 This is upsetting. Rosie seems not comfortable to me. I would never chase my bird around the cage like that. I have now idea what training we are talking about. I am still upset having watched this video. You might mean well but I don't think you have any clue. Patience.....go slow...trust....it takes time!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 A couple of things I noticed was, when she put her foot on you she squeezes her toe's but doesn't grip, has she ever fallen when perched on a arm. She doesn't want to step up in her cage, I would only try to get her to step up out of the cage, she senses she is being chased around the cage and is trying to get away from you. It would be better if you sat at the front of the cage with your arm extended out, motionless, and let her come to you. I prefer to use a finger or to, they have more to grab on to as some Greys are unsure of a arm...Good job. I would suggest talking in the normal voice, Greys copy their parront, she will sound like you, talk to her as you would any other person, for that's what they feel they are and that's how their brain thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 In my opinion maybe Rosie just doesn't want to come out of the cage at the time you are trying so hard to do so, try letting her come out of the cage on her own and then maybe she will be more receptive of stepping up but like Daniel said it looks like she is not comfortable with you trying to get her to step onto your hand. Some greys are cage aggressive meaning they do not like to be disturbed when in their cage, it is their safety zone and they do not like human intrusion. Why not allow her to come outside the cage then try getting her to step up, if she refuses then maybe she doesn't want to at that moment, wait a bit then try it again but chasing her around inside her cage is not how to maintain trust with her, she wants to make some decisions for herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisachristine Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Sorry to upset you Dw. Trust me, Rosie rules the with an iron beak and she knows it. That's part of her problem. Jayd, thanks. She has never fallen from my arm. Can't get her on! So what you're telling me is that I should wait on Rosie? In an earlier post you told me to challenge her more because she's four-years-old. It's easy for people to watch this video and think "what is this lady doing to that poor bird" when they have a healthy, loveable, hand raised grey that can perch on their should while they go shopping or to work. That's not what I want. Rosie has been sitting in her cage for four years. I am just simply trying to broaden her horizons. We keep her cage open all the time, but she has no interest. Edited January 5, 2013 by lisachristine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Please let your grey come out of her cage on her own. To gain trust you must let your grey make her own decisions. Trying to force a grey to do anything is always non-productive. Rosie seems to be a very sweet grey, please give her a chance to be herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Sorry to upset you Dw. Trust me, Rosie rules the with an iron beak and she knows it. That's part of her problem. Jayd, thanks. She has never fallen from my arm. Can't get her on! So what you're telling me is that I should wait on Rosie? In an earlier post you told me to challenge her more because she's four-years-old. Yes, a picture is worth a thousand words. After seeing the video, I have a better sense of whats happening, she's not being stubborn but looks more fearful. You still need to challenge her but not in this area. She doesn't seem cage territorial, but has fear of your arm, she doesn't seem to be upset that your in her cage. She attempts to step up, like she want's to but at the last moment changes her mind. Pose you arm, finger extended with out moving, you can do this at the cage door. Let her come to you, she might not like the sweater on your arm, no sudden movement, do this for short periods of time through out the day. I didn't get the impression she was uncomfortable, I felt she was indecisive. Edited January 5, 2013 by Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisachristine Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Indecisive is EXACTLY what I think! After working with her, I will walk away and she will come to the front of the cage and hold her foot out like she wants to step-up. I will walk back to the cage and then she will bounce back and forth on just that one foot like the video. Like I said before, when she first came to me, she would throw herself screaming to the bottom of her cage breaking blood feathers if I attempted to open the cage. Now she shows interest in me and her surroundings. I really believe that she wants to come out, but doesn't know how. Right after I handle her, She will try to call me back to the cage. If she was really that fearful of ME, would't she stay poofed up in the back of the cage and not talking and doing tricks?? Edited January 5, 2013 by lisachristine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Right on, something happened to cause her to be that way, lets take time to see what it might be, sit back and relax, try what I said for a while, It's going to be hard for you.......I don't believe she has any fear of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielaWelborn Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Exactly...Time. We can not rush those birds. It was just upsetting how the cage was invaded. I have to say I had great results with just taking a deep breath and relaxing. I think it is time to exhale.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsjr Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 This should be moved to the training thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistyparrot Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) I agree with the other advice you have had. She is clearly not comfortable with your hand and arm in her cage. I would suggest introducing a moveable perch into her cage. You should let her accept it and then in a while use that for her to step up onto so you can gently take her out. I think you will find it easier to get her to step onto your finger from the perch once she is out. Take it one gradual step at a time. But you must respect that for her her cage is her safe place she must be allowed to feel comfortable there at all times. Steve n Misty Edited January 5, 2013 by Mistyparrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbersmom Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 It sounds to me like you have came a long way with Rosie! It is frustrating, but as everyone says on the forum, grey time moves soooo slowly... I don't think I would be able to get Timber to step up from inside his cage unless he was really anxious to go somewhere with me. As others said, that is his "safety" zone and he doesn't like to be messed with if he is inside. If he wants to interact, he comes out. It is troublesome knowing that in the event of an emergency I would probably have to towel him to get him out, but it is what it is. Hopefully that will change with time, but that remains to be seen. I have had him for six months. You are also very fortunate that Rosie doesn't bite when you are sticking your arm in there like in the first video. When Timber bites, it is a blood drawing, tear inspiring bite, not a warning nip. One of these days, I bet Rosie will take the plunge and bring that other foot along for the ride. It will most likely be from a cage door or perch though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Bongo does not like to step up from inside at all what so ever. I still try though but first sign of him backing away i step back and lightly tap the cage door, he will come to where i asked him to then step up. I only keep trying for emergency reasons, just in case. He is a rescue at 5 yrs of age with lots of baggage. One being caged most of his life as a show piece at some company. Gus, umbrella too, also. Now getting them back in the cage is heartbreaking, they don't wanna! Food bribes worked for us. Set his fav treat near the door for him to explore on his own terms, as he gets more comfortable eek the food further until outside of the cage then when he is good with that, use your hand to hold the food and lure him out! Thats pretty much how we started. Now we reverse it, put the food in the cage so they want to go back in! I did notice in the video that you are giving her sunflower seed as a reward, only do that when she does something you want her to do. After running from you, you gave he one, reinforcing her that running away is good. Edited January 5, 2013 by murfchck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katana600 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 While I see Rosie being indecisive, I also see that she really seems to like you and that she wants to please you. She does seem really sweet and she is in a big hurry to get back to that "favorite" perch for a treat. We have had Gilbert almost two years now and he still gets really upset if I reach into his cage. Even when I put food in, he is waiting at the door, wants his food, but he will take a swipe at me and try to bite me. When I clean his cage, I wait for him to get up on the play top because he insists that I not invade his territory. So in comparison, Rosie seems laid back about it. Gilbert will posture for a head scratch and it seemed to take forever for him to get to the place where even when he is enjoying a touch, he has a very short tolerance and will turn suddenly and try to bite, then immediately tuck his head for another touch. Similarly to Rosie, it is an indecisiveness, like he really wants to trust me, but isn't quite there. It has taken me some time to read him and always leave him wanting a little more. Now he will stand for twenty minutes for a head rub when he initiates it. I like the way you offer your hand, she puts one foot on it. Just my opinion, but if you stop there and praise her and walk away, she might be the one some day to initiate the second foot. I think she really wants to and just isn't too sure what will happen next. When she does step up with both feet, I would give her the option to immediately step off if she wants. Each time she does it on her own and then has the choice to hold back, I think gives confidence that its okay for her not to want to "this time" and will build her trust with you. She is just beautiful and a sweetheart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisachristine Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 Katana600, thank you for your post. You were very articulate and kind with your wording. In the video I did push her a little more than I normally do. Our routine is for me to offer my arm and after a few footings or when she starts crawling the top bars I offer her a treat and leave, kind of like a peace offering. I did not know so many Greys were cage aggressive, so I guess this whole thread has made me even more fond of my Rosie, and I didn't think that was possible . She has never tried to strike out and bite while cleaning the cage or changing out toys. How long have you had Gilbert and do you only head scratch through the bars or through an open door? Once again thank you for your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) I'm teaching Rosie how to step-up (we say foot instead) however she won't put her second foot on my arm. She has been doing this for 6 months. Should I let her do this in her own time or do I get a little more aggressive with her? I'm really afraid of breaking the trust that I have built with her for the last two years. As you can see I can feed her with no problem (when she came to me two years ago I thought that it would be impossible to even put my hand NEAR the cage). I think her growling and scream is a combination of a learned behavior and a dominance thing. I am not afraid of her bites, but don't want her to be afraid of me. As you can see in the second video taken only moments after, she is back to playing and being vocal. I even get her to do one of her tricks at the very end!! So, is little girl just being stubborn or what?? What do you think of her body language? The others have given good thoughts and comments. First I want to praise you for your patience and love for Rosie over the last two years you have had her. I cannot count the people we have had come to this forum with a grey they had only gotten a few months earlier and were already thinking about re-homing them because they were not puppy dogs wanting to cuddle. It is obvious her first 2 years were not a good experience at all with humans. In my opinion, based on your comment that it has only been the last 6 months that this interaction of at least placing one talon on your arm, taking food and not biting the hell out of you, shows you have built up trust from none at all to actually desiring limited contact and interaction...Kudos to you!!!! Rosie obviously from watching this video does want contact and even displays that in body language you can see. The first talon on you is a small commitment, when the day comes that second talon comes on board, it is full commitment and she is not ready for that yet. When she does start to run away or scream, move your arm away as soon as you notice that body language. This will display to her that you acknowledge it and responded. When she realizes she has actually communicated and you understood her body language, she will come to a little higher level of trust knowing you respect her wishes. You've been at this a long time (2 years) and there is no doubt your in this for the long haul. Just keep up the interaction she obviously desires and as others have said, try and coax her to come out of the cage. You can perhaps get her to do so by offering that tasty food item she wants and is willing to make contact to get. I've had a conure suspected wild caught going on 8 years now and it took 6 years to get him to the point of now sitting and getting head scratches and loving being a willing member of his flock. So I can tell you those micro-mini steps over time will SLOWLY pay off. Edited January 6, 2013 by danmcq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingy Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I notice that Rosie is comfortable with the rope perch. Have you tried attaching one on the outside of her cage near where you said she sometimes stands at the door. Rosie knows the rope perch is "safe" so she might be willing to slowly venture out of her cage on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 lisachristine Watched the video. Rosie's lack of 100%, but offering 50%, is amazing! I believe she is ready for training, as long as it is done right. No owner should ever put their fingers in a birds cage. I have never done that. Open the door, read books, play games in front of cage. Once bird wants to stepup on the door, say " hello!" Stepup and down, is always done off the door or away from cage. A cage is their home. You will never be invited inside no matter how much they love or trust you. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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