New TAG Nightmares...

[pokeysdad]

Hello all,

 

I just got a 6-year-old TAG. Unsexed, but thinking male, and I call "him" Pokey. I got him from a respected animal professional who simply didn't have the time for him anymore. I have for him a very well-sized cage, separate perch, and there's plenty of room in my 1,000-square-foot apartment for him to walk around. But unfortunately, nearly everything that could have gone wrong has already gone wrong.

 

He's a fairly quiet bird overall, save for when he's being moved or handled in a new way. I've been pretty slow, and he's been getting better about being handled, but he certainly makes his hesitations public.

 

The big problem has been plucking. He's plucked the freshly-clipped feathers from his left wing, and has also gotten a couple caught in the cage bars and lost them when struggling. This most often happens when he seems shaken by his new location (although no locations of bowls have changed), climbing around too vigorously and falling.

 

I've now had to do four minor "surgeries"-he's overplucked/lost enough feathers on his left wing (including his two outermost ones), which were unclipped, that a couple of the larger holes have bled. Similar, I guess, to how one would have a bleeding hole after losing a tooth. By "surgery", I should obviously explain, I've toweled him, checked for/pulled out any feather shards, rubbed lightly with a hydrogen peroxide-soaked paper towel, and then coated affected areas in cornstarch.

 

Then today, I notice this:

 

So now it's spreading to the body. I haven't even noticed this on the body but once or twice, which means he's doing it when I'm trying to get him to sleep (only one time I've ever seen him do at night, also). He has plenty of food, including in a new foraging toy he hasn't touched, plenty of room, and plenty of perch spots. I'm not sure why this could be. He can be difficult to get out of the cage, but sometimes I just have to grab a foot and hold on and let him adjust to me when I notice a wing dripping with blood. Once he's out, though, he seems to enjoy perching and walking around. In fact, a couple of the times I wanted to put him back, he planted himself on my shoulder and was difficult about leaving it. He gets good light, during the day, but doesn't have to hear a bunch of other birds outside.

 

He has only spoken one word so far-"no", when I tried to pick him up one time. Other than that, we've gotten a lot better overall. He's starting to click sometimes at me, and does the smoke detector beep every time I was towards or away from him. I can finally get him to give a "kiss" noise, as well-all in just a week. Only makes it harder and harder to watch him pluck when I just don't know what else to give him. He typically gets the space he wants, too. I'll usually only get him out of the cage if I see he's bleeding or can see he's clearly interested (by far the rarer of the two). I'll check every couple hours, but typically he just wants a little wind gust on the head and for me to be on my way. I have doubts he's getting too little or too much attention.

 

Any ideas? Thanks.

[danmcq]

Welcome!

 

This post brought tears to me eye's.

 

This TAG is terrified and suffering from a bad wing clip which instigated the actions pokey took in trying to remove those very uncomfortable primaries agitating him. The flapping and getting wings caught in the bars is another incident of a terrified grey. A week is nothing in re-homing a grey with new surroundings, cage, toys etc. They are very sensitive to the slightest for changes in their environment. Toweling and forcing interaction just add to the fear and no trust building takes place in situations like that. Of course you had to do this to stop the bleeding, but please do not use hydrogen peroxide at all, just the corn starch to stop the bleeding. This new area on the breast, is it plucking or did pokey possibly have a hard fall and split his breast? I cannot tell from the photo as it is too small to see clearly if it is plucking or a split which of course would bleed.

 

The most important thing you can do now, is get him stable and leave him alone. Just sit and talk to him, read, watch tv etc. next to his cage. Open it and let him climb out if he wishes etc. But you must build trust by letting him become used to this new environment and people. if possible do not have an incident that requires toweling and let him go back in his cage on his own if he will. This is a very slow process that requires a ton of patience, love and understanding on your part.

 

We have many members here and a ton of articles for you to read. Please post often and ask all the questions you wish. We all care dearly for these greys and the new owners trying to give them a loving home.

Edited January 3, 2013 by danmcq

[Jayd]

Hi, Dan's reply is very accurate and I concur completely, leaving him alone as Dan has said is foremost right now, let him be in his cage. He will need a vet check when stable. Please no more grabbing a foot, let him come out of his cage on his own......

[Greywings]

Definitely let him have the time and freedom to get used to you, his new home and all the new sights and sounds around him. He will respond to youu in his own way in his own time, building trust is your first priority for now.

[JeffNOK]

So glad you are here. You have been given very good advice. While you are providing your new charge a little space, take some time to read through the threads here. Keep asking questions as you have them. Think positively, take some deep breaths, and remember that this is a marathon and not a sprint. It will get better if you let your TAG take the lead and allow him time to feel safe and loved. This will take time (months), but it is soooo worth it.

[katana600]

We got off to a rough start with our rehomed Timneh. He has plucked many feathers on the day I picked him up and it took a while for him to settle down. It seemed like forever, but he has calmed down now, regrown the feathers on his chest and some on his wings and tail but be prepared for the long haul. It sounds like Pokey was stressed by his changes and gently talking to him and keeping things quiet for a while will help as he settles in. As you said you are trying not to give him too little or too much attention and that is good. He will let you know when he is interested in more attention but in only a week, it will take some time to "read" his signals. If he is really scared and plucking because of that, consider where you put his cage. Gilbert wanted to be in a spot where he could see everything and make sure no one approached unless he knew in advance we were there. He may not like being near a window or door where someone could suddenly "appear". It helped for us to talk to him as we entered a room and it helped if we talked to him with our hands behind our back. From my own experience it was frustrating not to be able to "help" Gilbert but I came to understand that by doing nothing for a while as he acclimated was actually doing what he needed. You have had the added stress of seeing him injuring himself in his panic, but slowly your gentle ways will win Pokey over.

[Dave007]

Hello all,

 

I just got a 6-year-old TAG. Unsexed, but thinking male, and I call "him" Pokey. I got him from a respected animal professional who simply didn't have the time for him anymore. I have for him a very well-sized cage, separate perch, and there's plenty of room in my 1,000-square-foot apartment for him to walk around. But unfortunately, nearly everything that could have gone wrong has already gone wrong.

 

He's a fairly quiet bird overall, save for when he's being moved or handled in a new way. I've been pretty slow, and he's been getting better about being handled, but he certainly makes his hesitations public.

 

The big problem has been plucking. He's plucked the freshly-clipped feathers from his left wing, and has also gotten a couple caught in the cage bars and lost them when struggling. This most often happens when he seems shaken by his new location (although no locations of bowls have changed), climbing around too vigorously and falling.

 

I've now had to do four minor "surgeries"-he's overplucked/lost enough feathers on his left wing (including his two outermost ones), which were unclipped, that a couple of the larger holes have bled. Similar, I guess, to how one would have a bleeding hole after losing a tooth. By "surgery", I should obviously explain, I've toweled him, checked for/pulled out any feather shards, rubbed lightly with a hydrogen peroxide-soaked paper towel, and then coated affected areas in cornstarch.

 

Then today, I notice this: [ATTACH]23442[/ATTACH]

 

So now it's spreading to the body. I haven't even noticed this on the body but once or twice, which means he's doing it when I'm trying to get him to sleep (only one time I've ever seen him do at night, also). He has plenty of food, including in a new foraging toy he hasn't touched, plenty of room, and plenty of perch spots. I'm not sure why this could be. He can be difficult to get out of the cage, but sometimes I just have to grab a foot and hold on and let him adjust to me when I notice a wing dripping with blood. Once he's out, though, he seems to enjoy perching and walking around. In fact, a couple of the times I wanted to put him back, he planted himself on my shoulder and was difficult about leaving it. He gets good light, during the day, but doesn't have to hear a bunch of other birds outside.

 

He has only spoken one word so far-"no", when I tried to pick him up one time. Other than that, we've gotten a lot better overall. He's starting to click sometimes at me, and does the smoke detector beep every time I was towards or away from him. I can finally get him to give a "kiss" noise, as well-all in just a week. Only makes it harder and harder to watch him pluck when I just don't know what else to give him. He typically gets the space he wants, too. I'll usually only get him out of the cage if I see he's bleeding or can see he's clearly interested (by far the rarer of the two). I'll check every couple hours, but typically he just wants a little wind gust on the head and for me to be on my way. I have doubts he's getting too little or too much attention.

 

Any ideas? Thanks.

 

Whatta you mean by Shards?

 

A bird that has those types of wounds should be treated with Aloe Vera Gel, not any caustic material. Doing that only irritates and causes pain which will make the bird pluck even more. A bird who's had a short or bad clip will pluck at those feathers and even new ones because the feathers on either side are uneven and some get in the way of others making the bird more nervous and irritated. Those areas are extremely sensitive.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/DSCN0113-1.jpg

Edited January 3, 2013 by Dave007

[pokeysdad]

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to give a couple responses.

 

This TAG is terrified and suffering from a bad wing clip which instigated the actions pokey took in trying to remove those very uncomfortable primaries agitating him. The flapping and getting wings caught in the bars is another incident of a terrified grey. A week is nothing in re-homing a grey with new surroundings, cage, toys etc. They are very sensitive to the slightest for changes in their environment. Toweling and forcing interaction just add to the fear and no trust building takes place in situations like that. Of course you had to do this to stop the bleeding, but please do not use hydrogen peroxide at all, just the corn starch to stop the bleeding. This new area on the breast, is it plucking or did pokey possibly have a hard fall and split his breast? I cannot tell from the photo as it is too small to see clearly if it is plucking or a split which of course would bleed.

 

I do not want to start the whole clipped/unclipped debate, but I made sure to check the clipping job thoroughly the very first night I got him. The clip itself was even and good on both sides. As I said before, the previous owner was a certified animal professional (a vet tech, I believe, at a major zoo for nearly a decade). What I suspect is that the first freaked out fall he had his first night or so here caused him to damage a feather on his left wing, and that may have started the process. I have no other reason as to why he's only going after one wing. As far as the breast, that's all 100% plucking. It's gotten worse as of this afternoon, as well. I removed one new toy from his cage that I thought might be confusing/overcrowding him.

 

Please no more grabbing a foot, let him come out of his cage on his own......

 

As I mentioned before, this was what I resorted to when he was bleeding from the wing. I have not removed him like this in any other circumstance. The only other two times he has left the cage, he's wanted to come out on his own and stepped up to my offered hand.

 

If he is really scared and plucking because of that, consider where you put his cage. Gilbert wanted to be in a spot where he could see everything and make sure no one approached unless he knew in advance we were there. He may not like being near a window or door where someone could suddenly "appear". It helped for us to talk to him as we entered a room and it helped if we talked to him with our hands behind our back.

 

I thought very hard about this response. I found it very thoughtful and appreciate it. He has a nice window view that he seems to enjoy (he even took a small sunbathing nap today), and has a full view of most of the apartment from his cage (he is at the window-end of my hallway-structured, long apartment). Talking and hands, however, don't really seem to freak him out. He just typically doesn't want to leave the cage, and I only force him too when I see he's bleeding.

 

Whatta you mean by Shards?

 

A bird that has those types of wounds should be treated with Aloe Vera Gel, not any caustic material. Doing that only irritates and causes pain which will make the bird pluck even more. A bird who's had a short or bad clip will pluck at those feathers and even new ones because the feathers on either side are uneven and some get in the way of others making the bird more nervous and irritated. Those areas are extremely sensitive.

 

I will look into using some aloe vera. Would it also be effective to use on the plucked areas of his chest now? I simply had to use the cornstarch to stop the bleeding, which happened a couple times in frightening amounts.

 

I'd hate to go to a collar or bitter apple spray, but I'm pretty worried here. Even after my reading, the extremity of this reaction seems atypical for a rehoming, even. Any other ideas? Thanks.

[Dave007]

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to give a couple responses.

 

 

 

 

I will look into using some aloe vera. Would it also be effective to use on the plucked areas of his chest now? I simply had to use the cornstarch to stop the bleeding, which happened a couple times in frightening amounts.

 

I'd hate to go to a collar or bitter apple spray, but I'm pretty worried here. Even after my reading, the extremity of this reaction seems atypical for a rehoming, even. Any other ideas? Thanks.

 

Yes, the gel should be used immediately. It should be put into the wound and around the wound in all areas that irritations appear. Use a heavy amount. It's not toxic. It's very soothing. It sinks into the skin. Put more on daily until wound looks calmer and redness eases up but still use it. Make sure the bottle says 100% pure. It can be gotten in pharmacies and large supermarkets that have a large drug section. Do this quickly. The itchiness and pain will continue if you don't treat those bad areas. The gel isn't for growing feathers back. It prepares the skin to acept new feathers with less pain and irritation. It's also a healent.

[pokeysdad]

The only difficulty with that is that he doesn't want to come out of the cage and won't let me freely touch those areas even if he did. He'd need to be toweled. Which should I do, leave him alone or towel him to get the gel on?

[Dave007]

The only difficulty with that is that he doesn't want to come out of the cage and won't let me freely touch those areas even if he did. He'd need to be toweled. Which should I do, leave him alone or towel him to get the gel on?

 

Definitely use the towel. It's one of those situations where the towel is a must. Worry about the bad attitude at a later time. Birds get toweled for lots of different problems so getting that ointment on is #1 priority right now. He's growl, scream or screetch. Try not to pay attention. If you have another person there, have him/her help you out.

[pokeysdad]

So, an update for everyone.

 

I had to towel to use the aloe vera the first time. Now I'm spending more time around the cage just so he can see me and become familiar with me, but the plucking has taken a turn. ALthough he lets me put the aloe vera on without the towel now, he's plucking under his left wing and on his leg. I suspect it might be because the dry blood on those feathers from the wing incident makes him want to pluck them. I thought it had slowed down on the chest, too, but he's slowly going after the chest and leg whenever I'm not looking. He seems more comfortable with me being around and is eating really well, but is fairly disinterested in his toys and the plucking isn't getting better.

 

Any other ideas? He's making me want to pull my own hair out! Lol.

[Dave007]

So, an update for everyone.

 

I had to towel to use the aloe vera the first time. Now I'm spending more time around the cage just so he can see me and become familiar with me, but the plucking has taken a turn. ALthough he lets me put the aloe vera on without the towel now, he's plucking under his left wing and on his leg. I suspect it might be because the dry blood on those feathers from the wing incident makes him want to pluck them. I thought it had slowed down on the chest, too, but he's slowly going after the chest and leg whenever I'm not looking. He seems more comfortable with me being around and is eating really well, but is fairly disinterested in his toys and the plucking isn't getting better.

 

Any other ideas? He's making me want to pull my own hair out! Lol.

 

 

Type in

 

AVITEC.COM

 

On the left, look for PLUCKING/SCREAMING---click on it

 

Third picture from left ( spray and jar in picture) click on it

 

there's 3 choices

1---premixed bottle

2--small jar, powder in it (8 oz)

3--large jar, powder in it (16 oz)

-------

Get either 8 oz or 16 oz jar with powder in it. Stay away from premixed bottle. 8 oz is enough for 1 bird.

 

1 rounded teaspoon powder to 8 oz room temp water in a sprayer. Shake sprayer ubtil the little lumps in sprayer break up. Heavily soak your bird down once a day. Make sure that his skin gets soaked. If any remains in the sprayer, use it on any other birds sitting around. Discard what remains at the end of the day. Rinse out sprayer and bottle thoroughly.

[pokeysdad]

I have the 16 oz. ordered-if for no other reason than that Pokey is young, and always good to have some just in case. But it seems to have gotten worse.

 

Although I've spent more time where he can see me, I gave him a good amount of space after a grumpy morning yesterday. He's started to take my hand out of his cage with no fight, but I noticed this afternoon that he's gone hard for his left leg feathers on up to the base of the wing. I think this may be from wanting to pick out some of the blood-staining (from the bad wing) to some extent, but it's pretty bad. Both there and on his back, There's some plucking but a lot of "shredding". A lot of feathers have been half-chewed to being soft and without form.

 

Yet he's being more productive outside the cage and has learned some new noises in this time. It's been a couple weeks now and I've still only heard one word, when his owner said only a couple weeks ago that he had an extensive vocabulary. Is there something I'm missing?

 

Thanks again.

[Jayd]

If I may, get yourself some Chamomile tea,[pure,nothing else] Brew normal, add about1/2 cup to 1 cup of plain water, put in a separate water bowl. Try spoon serving him some when it's warm. [-105 degrees], you drink the rest....

[Timbersmom]

As for the talking, they talk when they feel like it. When he gets comfortable he will probably start using words again. After six months, Timber will sometimes come out with a word we haven't heard before. They don't forget any word they have learned in the past, so if he had an extensive vocabulary in the past, he still has it. He will use it when he feels like it. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but that's the way they are. I talk to Timber all the time, tell him what I'm doing and just make conversation. Sometimes he responds, sometimes he doesn't. He still does most of his talking when he is alone in the room.

[lisachristine]

How big is your cage? This sounds similar to when Rosie came to me. She would fall or jump from her perch that was in a 6 foot cage. After breaking blood feather after blood feather, I came up with the idea to confind her to a MUCH smaller cage. After about six months she learned to jump from the perch to the bars if she was spooked. I really believed that this boosted her confidence. All her feathers grew in and her hot spot healed. But yes, I would take her in.

[pokeysdad]

Update: Pokey's condition seems to be worsening.

 

He's now almost completely silent. Although I've been using the FeatherIn (and I know that's not supposed to take effect immediately), his plucking has become so bad that there was an area on the back of his neck in which all of his skin was fully exposed. For fear of him nicking is and bleeding at a rate I surely would be unable to stop with cornstarch, I had to roll up some paper towels and put a collar on him. His mobility is better than that which would be present with a "cone of shame", but he certainly seems to miss the access to pluckable areas.

 

How big is your cage? This sounds similar to when Rosie came to me. She would fall or jump from her perch that was in a 6 foot cage. After breaking blood feather after blood feather, I came up with the idea to confind her to a MUCH smaller cage. After about six months she learned to jump from the perch to the bars if she was spooked. I really believed that this boosted her confidence. All her feathers grew in and her hot spot healed. But yes, I would take her in.

 

The cage is fairly large, but not huge. Surely not quite big enough for two Greys. I tried putting him into his travelling kennel while monitoring him for a short while to see if maybe he was more comfortable spending some of his day there, but he plucked at the same rate. He gets around his cage just fine; to all bowls, perches, and even the bottom when he feels like reinspecting for seeds he may have missed his first time around.

 

I'm getting more and more concerned. Although his strength seems to be fine and he's eating, he seems to be less and less willing to get accustomed to his new home, despite my offerings of attention, space, food, water, toys, foraging toys, etc. All sound effects, even, are totally gone. No kissing noises, even.

 

I don't know why this particular rehoming is so difficult. It's really wearing on me, despite my best efforts to stay positive (especially around Pokey). I figured a couple weeks may calm him down and open him up, but he seems more antisocial now than he did his (clearly scared) first night home. Help?

[danmcq]

Hello all,

 

I just got a 6-year-old TAG. Unsexed, but thinking male, and I call "him" Pokey. But unfortunately, nearly everything that could have gone wrong has already gone wrong. <snip> He's plucked the freshly-clipped feathers from his left wing, and has also gotten a couple caught in the cage bars and lost them when struggling. This most often happens when he seems shaken by his new location (although no locations of bowls have changed), climbing around too vigorously and falling.I've now had to do four minor "surgeries"-he's overplucked/lost enough feathers on his left wing (including his two outermost ones), which were unclipped, that a couple of the larger holes have bled. Similar, I guess, to how one would have a bleeding hole after losing a tooth. By "surgery", I should obviously explain, I've toweled him, checked for/pulled out any feather shards, rubbed lightly with a hydrogen peroxide-soaked paper towel, and then coated affected areas in cornstarch. <snip> He can be difficult to get out of the cage, but sometimes I just have to grab a foot and hold on and let him adjust to me when I notice a wing dripping with blood. He has only spoken one word so far-"no", when I tried to pick him up one time.<snip> Any ideas? Thanks.

 

If you don't mind a little feedback on this 6 year old adult greys experience so far. If you read what I condensed down by snipping of his experience in your home since arriving. He has been through hell based on his perspective of the horrifying experiences encountered to this point. A rehome is a drastic change in and of itself. Then add all the above interactions he has had and it equals one highly stressed out and terrified grey.

 

My personal perspective at this point, is to just leave him alone, unless some type of emergency occurs that you must address. No more toweling and extracting from the cage etc. He needs to know he is safe and the only way that is going to happen, is for him to experience weeks of peace rather than what he perceives as life threatening horrific events day after day in his minds eye.

 

I know you are doing your best and obviously fret over him and only want the best. I appreciate your taking him in and trying your best. But, sometimes it is better to just step back and get to know each other in a calm environment and yes plucking will continue, but let him do so in peace. The plucking will not stop until he is no longer fearful and stressed out. Right now you are both stressed and they are feeding on each others and increasing it, believe it or not.

 

Again, I commend you for you loving efforts to help, but sometimes we just need to step back and give each other some well deserved space and rest.

Edited January 15, 2013 by danmcq

[Dave007]

I truly think it's time to stop the different expereimentations and guesswork. I think it's time to go to the vet. We have no idea how you performed your *surgeries*. It could be that infections have set in and all of the areas need to be examined and treated by a professional. We can only offer opinions and persnal experiences but that doesn't mean that they may apply to you. There are no vets on the board and visual exams are important now.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Dave007