aw64 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Im just intrested to know how many people have their birds clipped, Alfie is flighted but I'm having so many problems returning him to his cage and finding it difficult to have him out when I have things to do, so just out of intrest who has gone down the clipped route and who has maintained a life with a flighted cag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbersmom Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Timber is clipped. In hindsight, with him being a rehome and not handle-able when I brought him home, it was probably the best decision for me. His vet did it the day after I brought him home, and I didn't really know the alternatives at the time. I have four free roaming cats and he is in or close to the kitchen with open flame etc. I'm letting his feathers grow for now and will make the reclipping decision when the time comes. I'm not sure he was ever fully-flighted. At any rate, it is a wait and see thing for me. Circumstances and individual birds and their needs dictate that decision I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Timber is clipped. In hindsight, with him being a rehome and not handle-able when I brought him home, it was probably the best decision for me. His vet did it the day after I brought him home, and I didn't really know the alternatives at the time. I have four free roaming cats and he is in or close to the kitchen with open flame etc. I'm letting his feathers grow for now and will make the reclipping decision when the time comes. I'm not sure he was ever fully-flighted. At any rate, it is a wait and see thing for me. Circumstances and individual birds and their needs dictate that decision I think. Hi, We're opposed to clipping but respect the opinion of others, we feel especially a re-home or rescue need their wings. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190512-WingClipping-Part-1-Objective-Neutral http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190511-WingClipping-Part-2-objective-neutral http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190510-WingClipping-Part-3-objective-neutral http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190509-WingClipping-Part-4-Objective-Neutral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 My parrots and my canary are all flighted. I, however, do understand that there are times when a parrot/bird is safer to be clipped. I live alone so I can control the comings and goings in my home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaggaMuffin Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Ragga is not clipped and has never been, nor has my Conure. I will never clip my Parrots, but I do understand the frustration in having a fully flighted bird. Ragga my TAG went through a faze where he never wanted to return to his cage. At home he never has to be in a cage, as he has a bird room. However, when we travel he has to go back in a cage every time I leave the house, and especially at night. I started to use certain words for a command instead of trying to "catch" him, or make him step up to go into his cage. This worked after a couple weeks, he now flies directly into his cage when I tell him too. I will never clip my FIDS, they are brats a lot, and will step up when THEY want to a lot of the time, but I feel that's all part of the responsibilities of having a Parrot. They are suppose to fly. That's my opinion though, and you must do what you feel is best and safest for you and your Grey. Edited December 30, 2012 by RaggaMuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielaWelborn Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Jellybean is fully flighted and it can be a pain. However, I learned that I can take him back to his cage when I need to; my last resort being a peanut. I was very frustrated at first because my bird would rule the roost. We turned a corner and now I feel very comfortable in putting him back in his cage if I need to. To be honest, it is kind of like a toddler: this is not oaky and here are your consequences. It works for us. I like my bird being able to fly; they are such beautiful creatures and clipping their wings seems just wrong to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 All of my birds are flighted but my sun conure was clipped when I first got her and I clipped her a couple more times then never again, she only takes flight now when startled but my tiel likes to take laps around the room, Josey chooses to not fly but she will get down on the floor and do walkabout to me. I do understand that some do clip their bird's wings but they have their reasons and I respect them for that, not everyone can handle having flighted birds around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 It is not wrong, to trim birds during time of educating them. First, they should be fully flighted, then trimmed during training, then fully flighted again. The trimming time, they can still fly, but focus on education. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 It is not wrong, to trim birds during time of educating them. First, they should be fully flighted, then trimmed during training, then fully flighted again. The trimming time, they can still fly, but focus on education. Nancy This is wrong and a very bad opinion...Think about it, don't clip, clip, don't clip, what kind of message are you sending to a parrot who is emotional based, a being that thinks what their next step or movement will be, one that is completely aware of their capability's. This would be abuse . The training you give your Grey starts the day you bring them home and doesn't end until their gone. If you want to clip your Grey, then do it, [but realize what damage you might cause]. This is scientific fact, and many years of personal experience with many parrots. Just because it worked for one parrot doesn't give it credential. I'm so sorry, but I've personally seen on a daily basis what can happen [at times] with the ending statement "It worked for me"... Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) Jay is spot on! The only reason a person would clip a parrots wings to take flight ability away to train them, is it is more of a challenge for the human, than a clipped bird that really has no choice of where they are and for how long. The path of "easier" on the trainer is never the right path for the bird in most cases. Dayo and jake are both fully flighted. They still are easily trained in many things and when they tire or become bored (which a parrots attention span is very short) they will walk or fly away at their own choice. Training a parrot or a human or any other creature should not be an unpleasant time for them. When they wish to stop, it's time to stop or the next time you try time train them, it will not be something they would look forward to or welcome in my opinion. Think of a child in a class with a terrible and boring teacher... did you learn much from them or look forward to that class??? What if they strapped you down so you had no option to leave once bored?? Edited January 1, 2013 by danmcq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) As others have said, it is a challenge at first to get a bird flighted bird back in their cage when they have no desire to go. In the beginning years ago it was a real challenge to figure out ways to get dayo back in his cage. Sometimes if it was a 911 and we had to leave, toweling was the only quick way to get it done. However I must say that 911's were and are not that common. Things that work for us: 1) A food item they love placed in their cage. Get it, get them interested and wanting it, then place it in their cage while letting them watch you do so. once in, close the door. I must say though, unless dayo REALLY wants it bad enough he learned very quickly that it was a ploy to get him in the cage. 2) Just interact with them as you normally do and get a step-up, then gently pull them close to your body and gently cup your other hand over their wings and take them to the cage. 3) If it's night time, turn the lights off. They cannot see well at all in the dark, then gently speak for a step up and gently nudge their lower extremity with your hand and they will step up, take them to their cage. 4) In the evenings, develop a ritual for example of turning the tv, sound etc. off and telling them it's time to go night-night etc. patiently ask for a step up then take them to their cage. This is our evening ritual and dayo willingly steps up and I carry him back to his cage in the family room and place him in it. Then we both tell him good night and we love him, kisses and then cover his cage and then we walk off ....he starts beak grinding indicating he is contented with it. They seem to prefer rituals (knowing what and when to expect) which is what they have in the wild, a time to wake, a time to feed, a time to play, a time to rest, a time to bask, a time to bathe and a time to go to sleep.... etc. Edited January 1, 2013 by danmcq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greymom Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 When I got Rita almost 4 years ago, she was 7 years old at the time. She was re-homed and very poorly clipped. Her clipping was so bad that she would just fall to the ground. We were very sad to see that. I let her wings grow back but I did keep her clipped until last year. I have decided to leave her unclipped and she is just beginning to navigate. She can make turns when she flies and she can even land where she wants to, sometimes. She will even fly to my hand when she is high up on a beam. I think she is so much happier now. But I do worry about open doors and destruction of things when she lands on tables, etc. But we are being very careful. I have no trouble getting her back to her cage. Sometimes when she is on the floor she says, "What are you doing on the floor?" Something she learned long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aw64 Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Thank you all for your replys, some very good points and the one that has hit home is from danmaq and jayd, Alfie is in no danger being flighted or at least no more than any other housed bird its made me question myself what right have i got to prevent him doing whats normal to him just to make my life easyer, so think I need to back track a bit and keep up with Alfies changes as he grows from a sweet baby to an independent adult with a teenager attitude, so again thank you all but Alfie is being kept flighted this does not mean I dis agree with clipping we all have different birds and situations which I respect, now guys help me get back to grips with Alfie pleeeeese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielaWelborn Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I agree, Jellybean had gotten a hold of a juice cap this evening and was flying back and forth from this cage and the fridge. We tried to get him with a peanut with no avail and then decided to let him have it because we had plenty of them in the first place. He so easily let it go.. it would have been crazy to get into a fight over it. My point being; pick your battles and out smart them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makes3 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Happy New Year, everyone. I'm new to the forum and glad I found it. I have a CAG, 2 Cockatiels and a Pionus and all my birds are fully flighted. They live in an accommodating environment, however, and I understand that not everyone has the same circumstances. We live in Florida and they have a room all to themselves just off the dining and living rooms with French doors that I can close if necessary; and sliders on the opposite wall for me to roll their cages out when it's nice outside. Often when they're in their room they fly around chasing each other and sneaking into each other's cages eating their food, being mischievous and keeping each other company. I often think how frustrating it must be for a bird to want to do something completely natural (i.e., fly) and not be able to. Rarely one of my birds may not want to go back to their cage. When I sense aggression I just get them to step up onto a dowel and put them back in their cage. Edited January 2, 2013 by makes3 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Its great, that we can all agree, to disagree. I'm sure we all believe.... it is very important for all babies to be able to learn to fly. They need to develop their chest muscles, practice landing, develop self confidence. We as a family took it one step furthur, practiced flying with two people in our family. One for take off, one for landing. Safety was of course, our priority. ( watch out for windows, etc) Sophie was " clipped", when we got her. Had no idea how to fly. We spent more time with her, growing her feathers and working on her flying ability. Kiki, our Amazon on the other hand, we had since she was a baby. A " trim" for her, was keeping her flying to three rooms. Sunny our rescue, was never clipped or limited. We trimmed during terrible two's for Kiki and Sophie. They could fly quite well, just only three rooms away. Not everywhere. The only reason we could have better control of them flying everywhere, was having a very close relationship with our trimmer. He knew them well, and helped us during terrible two's and training. It was a very short period of time before they were fully flighted again.It did help with training, stepup and down, introduction to entire family, spending time with us. They could fly off whenever they wanted too. Jayd... please be careful about throwing out the word " abuse". None of my birds were ever abused. They fly everywhere now and have a very happy home. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 three rooms. They could fly quite well, just only three rooms away. Not everywhere. Jayd... please be careful about throwing out the word " abuse". None of my birds were ever abused. They fly everywhere now and have a very happy home. Nancy Being able to fly three rooms only, has nothing to do with clipping/trimming! It is a limitation caused by some other reason/problem. A bird who is clipped can not fly or obtain altitude, let alone flying to 3 rooms. With clipped wings they should be able to fly out and down about 15' with excessive flapping. In some cases, with severe clipping, they'll drop straight down. If any member is paying someone for clipping and is told their bird will be able to fly for 3 rooms, they are being ripped off. Your statement, quote: First, they should be fully flighted, then trimmed during training, then fully flighted again. :quote, This statement is an indication of a form of "Abuse". Another example : Laddering, having your bird stepping up from finger to finger, repeatedly is considered "Abuse". All statements I've made can be verified though simple research. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aw64 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Dont want this to get out of hand guys, I really was intrested in everyones views as we all have different ways would be a sad world if we were all the same, But Jayd as Im new to the african gray world why is laddering not a good idear, due to my problems with Alfie I have gone back to basics with step ups and have been trying one hand to the next with rewards my idear behind this is to try to make him see it does not always mean back to cage when I want him to step up, must add its not working yet and have sore fingures to show for it! lol but guess this is my welcome to the grey world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) What you're doing is fine, it's when you offer your fingers in rapid succession with no treat and no purpose other then frustration on the part of the bird, is wrong. Asking your fid to step=up to finger to finger or hand or anywhere else with a treat or not is good training... Striking a bird, dropping a bird to the floor, isolation in a small cage or carrier in a remote location, placing the bird in a bath tub or other inappropriate place as punishment, covering the cage as punishment, laddering, intimidation through staring or glaring are some worthless and counterproductive acts of punishment. Edited January 2, 2013 by Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffNOK Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 How are things going since this thread was begun? Are you and Alfie coming to terms? So far I don't have any problems getting Gracie to go into her cage, but I am reading this thread closely because at 17 months old she does like to test boundaries. It's usually minor things and she often does it with a sense of humor. Now what 24 months will bring, I don't know. Good luck and keep us posted on progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aw64 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Im on day 3 of spending as much time as possible with Alfie out of cage, getting him to fly to me and step up for rewards, still having problems but facing it head on now with the hope it will one day be a distant memory, will keep you all posted, did try the darkened room but the little devil still flew to playstand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielaWelborn Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Honestly, I do not see the sense in having a bird flighted and then clipping and then having him flighted again. I look at Jellybean as a child and I have raised three (children). That just seems confusing to me; off and on; off and on. Trust being the most important thing; My bird trusts that he can fly. He can also trust me that I can handle him and interact with him in an appropriate way to get him back to where I want him to be. It takes a lot of time, patience and what not. Jellybean and I ( and my husband Carl) had a day today that was challenging, BUY right now Jellybean is settling down on top of his cage, roosting and being very content. I good end to a bad start. enough said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielaWelborn Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I appreciate your effort; time and consistency will pay off. The same thing at the same time...you have a bad day, the bird has a bad day, time will make up for it. Day three is nothing in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Everyone needs to make a decision how to train their birds. While I agree it is important for new birds to be fully flighted, I also believe it is important during the terrible two's. for a bird to be able to focus on training. ( similar to having a bird with ADD!) Kidding! Everyone settle down! I trimmed my birds during the terrible two's, so they could focus on other things that were important. They could still fly quite well. My vet( an exotic bird specialist), suggested trimming during training time.I followed his advice, he was right on!( need to find a trimmer that is amazing!) I don't believe in letting a bird on the shoulder, until they are ready. I don't ignore bites... birds need to know this is a behavior that is not appreciated. Return to cage, try again in five minutes. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Please everyone, make a decision to either clip or not to, let the baby fledge as long as possible before clipping, don't flip/flop, remember there is always something missing to a parrot with clipped wings. Most people will have one bird, two at most and the whole time they have their bid, clipped or not, their never exposed to the differences. What I say isn't opinion, it's fact....My apologizes to all members, I have to stick by what I believe in...... Edited January 4, 2013 by Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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