Henni Penni's Feather problems

[DizzyBlue]

Firstly I'd like to know how to upload pictures to this forum please I have photobucket do I do it that way?

I'd like to show my Henni's feather issues to see if anybody has any ideas that I haven't tried yet regarding her chewing/plucking/squishing and general diabolical treatment towards her feathers! Henni is 32 years old (leg ring verification which has now been removed!) and lived with her last owners for 17 years after being bought down the pub on a whim!! Unfortunately for her she wasn't given a proper balanced diet nor treated with much errr for want of a better word "respect" no time out and living alone in the kitchen for 17 years took it's toll but Henni's past is of little relevance to this thread except in how it impacted on her the ill-treatment took it's toll, all I have to do is try to figure out how to un-do it!! And that's where your brains come into play lol! For those 17 years she was thought to be male....she moved in with me Sept 2011. Laid eggs this easter much to my astonishment! Her self mutilation has stopped completely she had chewed two toes and had to have joints removed plus a hole in her chest just under her wing - everything has healed fine. It's just the feather thing...or the lack of feathers....and the semi-chewed ones! The "I hate baths" stance is a bit of a nightmare but then again I'm no push over and she gets mistings mixed with playtime and lots of praise and treats afterwards it's amazing what she will do for a nice grape!! I'd like to show people the state of her tail feathers if you can call them that, the chewed remains of feathers that are on her back there are no feathers to speak of remaining on her chest and tummy!! She's a bit of a baldy but much loved regardless!!

Henni has had blood tests, skin scraping, poop analysis and a multitude of things inbetween and nothing is coming back that way she clear of everything (including feathers!!)

Any help gratefully received even if we've already tried it! My theory is there has to be something that I haven't tried or come across yet that may help her even just a little bit!

[DizzyBlue]

Lets see if I can upload piccies....excuse me if I make a mess of it all!!

Right this is Henni Penni (hopefully fingers crossed!)

these are her tail feathers a view from above her rather then from underneath if you get my meaning

Her back

and finally her wing feathers....

She has moulted whilst being here and this is what happens to the feathers if they make it to full length snip snip snip!!!

Edited November 10, 2012 by DizzyBlue

[DizzyBlue]

This is Henni's cage and yes that's the little lady herself on top.

Her cage is very unusually in full view of the window and not against a wall cos Henni spent a lot of time falling off perches she is so nosey she just has to see everything so for safety sake I moved her to where she was happiest with a blanket on the top right corner to give her somewhere that felt like a covered area....of sorts!

This is how nosey Henni really is ....if the curtains are closed at night and she hears something she just has to spy on the neighbours!!

This is my girl doing what she does best....destroying lol got to love her she just really has an abundance of enthusiasm!!

[Sheldon89]

She's such a beauty! A real doll. Unfortunately, I don't know of anything, myself, because I fear I may be getting into the same situation with a 10+ year old CAG. He's been chewing quite a bit after moving in with me 3 weeks ago. But I hope to learn from your thread! Thanks for the pics, she's absolutely darling.

 

Edit: WHAT a wonderful cage you have for her, too!!

[Dave007]

Firstly I'd like to know how to upload pictures to this forum please I have photobucket do I do it that way?

I'd like to show my Henni's feather issues to see if anybody has any ideas that I haven't tried yet regarding her chewing/plucking/squishing and general diabolical treatment towards her feathers! Henni is 32 years old (leg ring verification which has now been removed!) and lived with her last owners for 17 years after being bought down the pub on a whim!! Unfortunately for her she wasn't given a proper balanced diet nor treated with much errr for want of a better word "respect" no time out and living alone in the kitchen for 17 years took it's toll but Henni's past is of little relevance to this thread except in how it impacted on her the ill-treatment took it's toll, all I have to do is try to figure out how to un-do it!! And that's where your brains come into play lol! For those 17 years she was thought to be male....she moved in with me Sept 2011. Laid eggs this easter much to my astonishment! Her self mutilation has stopped completely she had chewed two toes and had to have joints removed plus a hole in her chest just under her wing - everything has healed fine. It's just the feather thing...or the lack of feathers....and the semi-chewed ones! The "I hate baths" stance is a bit of a nightmare but then again I'm no push over and she gets mistings mixed with playtime and lots of praise and treats afterwards it's amazing what she will do for a nice grape!! I'd like to show people the state of her tail feathers if you can call them that, the chewed remains of feathers that are on her back there are no feathers to speak of remaining on her chest and tummy!! She's a bit of a baldy but much loved regardless!!

Henni has had blood tests, skin scraping, poop analysis and a multitude of things inbetween and nothing is coming back that way she clear of everything (including feathers!!)

Any help gratefully received even if we've already tried it! My theory is there has to be something that I haven't tried or come across yet that may help her even just a little bit!

 

Hi, I'm glad you figured out Photoucket.

The age has to do with a lot of your bird's situation. More than likely, the bird has been doing this for a long time and the problems weren't dealt with. So now, the bird has developed habits that have become routine for her. Long time chronic plucking/chewing eventually creates loss of follicles. When they're gone no feathers will ever grow back in that area/areas. Those areas where she picked at normally won't have feathers that will develop into normal looking feathers. In those areas feathers actually become very annoying, irritating and sometimes painfull so the first thing the bird does is pull at them or chew the up. He's learned how to live with them but you're the one that's rightfully upset. Let me use a situation oncerning people---theres a person who continually bites their nails. No one stops the person from doing it. As time goes on, the nail biting intensives. The person learns to do everything that others do that have nails. The person is happy and content about that but the nail biting continues. There's a big possibility that those growing nails are actually interfearing with the normal things that the person does all the time so the person continually bites them off. When the nails are off, the person feels normal again. The only time the person will temporarily stop is when damage occurs to the cuticle, swelling happens, some blood comes out. When all of areas are healed, the nail biting starts again.

 

It's good that you had all of those tests done because people would suggest that the tests be done. You had them done and you got a thumbs up. Many of those bald spots will stay bald if the follicles are gone.

Continuing the misting is always a good idea even though your bird may not like it. Many greys hate misting, bathing/showering but it has to be done. There's a proper way to do it. Make sure all of the body skin is soaked. Spraying the outer feathers doesn't accomplish anything because those outer feathers are waterproof. Having a bottle of aloe vera gel around is always good for spot treatment on bad irritated areas. It can be purchased at pharmacies. It's not expensive. As far as what's happening, compare it to a woman who's rubbing hand cream in. The skin softens, the dryness goes away, the itchiness goes away and the cream disappers. The woman feels sexy again. The same type of thing has to occur on a bird's sore, baldish, redish skin. This helps the bird stay away from those areas and it's not toxic. There's also a few products that can be used for spraying. One is aloe vera juice. It should be sprayed on full strength at least once a day. That also makes the skin less itchy. AND we have a section here that explains all different ways of washing,spraying stubborn birds. You should read it if you get a chance. There's also another product you can get but I have no idea if you can get it in the UK. It's also a spray that's very good.

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?189753-Bathing-possible-method-1

 

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?189752-Bathing-possible-method-2

 

 

 

Your photos show a bird that have very little tail feathers that have been chewed-------normal for your bird's problem.

Your photos show some bald spots in different areas-----normal for your bird's problem. ( I can't see the other side of the bird though). 2 of your photos didn't come out very well but the others say it all.

Really, the only thing you can do is feed her a decent diet, keep her out of the dark, make sure she's constantly around family members, feed her hard trats such as unsheeled nuts that she needs to break open, let her out of the cage often and last but not least, treat some of the existing problems so that those areas become less irritated. You never can tell, there may be feathers in hidden places that are waiting to come out if they're not picked on. And just remember that there may have been permanent damage done to the feathers that are worrying you more than your bird. Good luck.

 

PS--Being left in a kitchen and being ignored and not being fed the right thing through the years helped your bird develop these bad habits. Lets hope that the people decide to never get a parrot again.

Also hang some hard wood in the cage. Greys like wood that they can chew and destroy.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Dave007

[DizzyBlue]

Cheers for that Dave! I know Henni will probably not grow feathers back and she'll stay a nudist lol she has grown a number of pink feathers back in some very strange places which my raptor vet says is due to the follical damage I strive to keep a head of any new information as sometimes it's the little things that make a break through for all the oddest of reasons. It's the way she will leave everything alone all day long I even set up cameras to video her whilst I'm out and she doesn't pluck....she goes to bed on a night time and hey presto she becomes a secret night time plucker!!! It's just really really weird.

I'll give post a picture of Henni's chest eeeerrrrrr she is almost totally nude to the front! She has started to grow a few feathers back and has so far (she says fingers crossed) not ripped them out but rather over preened them and snipped bits off! Like I said she gets a bath whether she likes it or not and I do make sure she gets lots of praise for enduring it. As for nuts.....hmmmm unfortunately Henni doesn't like any nuts!! She's tried walnuts, pecan, cobnut, peanuts, cashew nuts, hazelnuts, almonds and pine nuts and hates them all she just spends her time posting them out of her cage onto the floor she wont tollerate them in her feedbowl or even on the floor of her cage...... some days I wonder about her not playing with a full deck so to speak! If I'm at home Henni is not in her cage if the weather is good she accompanies me shopping and we go for regular days out to the playground etc yes the locals do think I'm really odd but Henni enjoys it and if she having a good time so am I. During the daytime she has a parrot sitter who sits with her and reads her the newspaper in the morning and in the afternoon and she has the telly on too....I know I'm as nutty as they come!!

Aloe vera jucie I make my own as I grow it in tubs in the kitchen so we have that one covered. Have you come across anybody using colloidal silver in the misting bottle yet? I've heard a few people mention it but I only use it as an antiseptic. I've used vitamin e oil (the natural one not the human synthetic variety) do a varying degree of success in stopping the itchyness when the feather first start pinning.

What do you mean about keep her out of the dark?

[Timbersmom]

It sounds like Henni has it made now! She probably thinks she is in heaven. Thanks for the nail biting analogy Dave, that was good and I understand what you mean now. Like Sheldon89 I'm reading with interest because I'm trying to learn as well. Good job there Dizzy and loved the pics

[Dave007]

"""""What do you mean about keep her out of the dark?""""""

 

Other than sleeping, most parrots like to stay in lite areas. They're the ones that decide when to go into shady areas. Lite areas let the bird show curiosity about what's going on. It lets people see what's going on. Understand that this is strickly my opinion. Others may disagree but it's worked for me. You can try it or not.

 

 

*****Have you come across anybody using colloidal silver in the misting bottle yet? I've heard a few people mention it but I only use it as an antiseptic. I've used vitamin e oil (the natural one not the human synthetic variety) do a varying degree of success in stopping the itchyness when the feather first start pinning.*****

 

I know nothing about those products but I can say that antiseptics can irritate skin. It's acidic and can cause bad reactions. The only things that should be used are products that soothe the skin making it softer and more pliable. A bird has less reason to pull on that type of skin. Some people use regular mouth wash to gargle with. Those same people may decide to use antiseptic gargle and it'll sting the mouth and some of the throat. Again just my opinion but I wouldn't use antiseptics on birds. For products like that I would definitely get my vet's ok on that.

Understand that for many birds, it takes a long while to see good results. Birds go through relapses many times. It's frustrating and sad for people. The bird doesn't really care. Your bird is a typical plucker. It's chronic as opposed to acute. A chronic plucker will never stop. An acute plucker will go through times when the plucking stops for a long time and just certain things happen which will make the plucking start again. Then, the plucking stops again.

This is a bird similar in some problems like your bird, only worse. It also tells about the length of time.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/1-1.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/2.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/3.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/4-1.jpg

 

This bird never had flight feathers and even though he has them now, he'll never fly because he doesn't know how to fly.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Dave007

[DizzyBlue]

Henni has apple branches as perches and I just replace them as she destroys them, she also has java wood perches plus comfy clams plus two of those polly twisters to keep the nails in check and a variety of toys to destroy hanging up.... and when the trees are in need of cutting back in the garden I just do this.....

Ok so she was rather stunned the first time it happened but since then when she sees me dragging the branches in she's really excitable as she knows she in for a good session of destruction lol

and as you can see from the following my girlie gets around and about when the weather is good...she has apple wood on the back garden to climb around on when the weather is nice.

[DizzyBlue]

Those pictures just about broke my heart until I saw the last one! now that is an amazing transformation! Bless his/her little heart. Thanks for the insight Dave much appreciated. Henni is loved with or without feathers at this moment she's trying to pull the chuffing keys off the laptop ....again..... and is in serious danger of getting tickled if she doesn't stop grabbing my fingers as I type...

Hmmm do you think maybe a childrens night-light one of those plug in low glow things for the socket may be of assistance in the night time snipping....then again knowing my luck it will just help her to see them better to pick them out!!!

[Dave007]

Those pictures just about broke my heart until I saw the last one! now that is an amazing transformation! Bless his/her little heart. Thanks for the insight Dave much appreciated. Henni is loved with or without feathers at this moment she's trying to pull the chuffing keys off the laptop ....again..... and is in serious danger of getting tickled if she doesn't stop grabbing my fingers as I type...

Hmmm do you think maybe a childrens night-light one of those plug in low glow things for the socket may be of assistance in the night time snipping....then again knowing my luck it will just help her to see them better to pick them out!!!

 

Even a 15 or 25 watt bulb is good. Put it in a small light fixture and put it away from your bird. Lights don't hurt birds. They'll sleep through anything plus, they'll see things quickly when they fall off their perch. Greys are clumbsy birds

This a lamp that's about 13 inches high. There's a 25 watt bulb in it. The only reason that the small towel is around it is because the lamp is butt up next to the quaker's cage. It lights the whole room and when I put it on, the birds go to their cages to sleep. I've used it for years. I don't like keeping my greys in total darkness

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/DSCN0004.jpg

Edited November 10, 2012 by Dave007

[DizzyBlue]

ooooo now there's a good idea! cheers for that am gonna give it a go. Henni is usually clumbsy cos she hates to miss seeing anything going on and rushes around and trips over her own feet! then again after 17 years of seeing nothing but the kitchen I suppose everything moving and happening to her is well worth watching lol.

She does love sitting watching the tv when we have our quiet time just before her bedtime (part of our routine) and if there is anything with music on the credits she loves to join in even if she really doesn't know the words ha ha ha!

[Timbersmom]

Sounds like Henni is bright and engaged. Good for you for rescuing her from that miserable existence.

[katana600]

I have learned a lot of things on this thread today. Thanks to all the contributors. The series of pictures Dave posted show there is hope for change over time. Henni Penni may decided to accept your offerings of nuts over time. In the beginning, Gilbert rejected every kind of treat I offered him and then started to accept the almonds, pistachios and pine nuts and now he is eager for them. Henni Penni really has a lovely home now and she is beautiful. I am so grateful for this forum to help with fresh new ideas as well as tried and true suggestions like the aloe sprays. Something as simple as a night light made a world of difference for Gilbert. I hope Henni Penni flourishes as you work to give her the life she deserves. Kudos to all of you making a difference one parrot at a time.