Zoom Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm really worried about Simon. He's 22 months old, and over the last couple of months, but particularly the last couple of weeks, I've been having a lot of problems with him. The one that worries me the most is biting. He never used to bite me, and now he bites me - quite hard, and for no apparent reason. He has broken the skin a bit a couple of times now. He's moody and can be loving and friendly one moment and then suddenly he can be hostile and aggressive. When he's like that, he won't step up when I ask, so I have to wait until he's ready before I can put him back in his cage. I feel like I have no control over him when he's like this. And frankly I'm starting to get scared of him because I can't trust him, and I'm sure he can sense that. I don't want him on my shoulder anymore, because I don't trust him - but after two years of having shoulder rights, he figures he's entitled. How do I keep him off my shoulder? And how do I get him to stop biting me? I've tried ignoring it, as suggested, but the problem's getting worse, not better. I'm worried that if it gets much worse, we're going to head into a downward spiral in which I won't want to let him out of his cage, and he'll become more aggressive and less tame, and eventually I'll be thinking about finding him a new home. I love him very much and I don't want to even contemplate that outcome, so I need some help figuring out what's going on and how to fix it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLB Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I am so sorry Zoom. I am sure this is something we have all feared...our sweet baby suddenly turns evil. I wish I could help. As you know, help will come! Hang in there and know you are not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbersmom Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I don't have experience to give you advice, but I was wondering if it could be the "terrible twos?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katana600 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 This too shall pass. I agree that you don't want to relegate him to the cage and feel like you are neglecting him but whether he thinks your shoulder is his entitlement or not, you have to protect yourself while he is going through what I am thinking is a rite of passage or phase as he decides he wants to make his own darn decisions. I have not gone through this with a baby so many others will have advice to help you mitigate any damages and keep your relationship intact. One thing I am sure about is that if he gets a chance to bite, and he takes that chance, it may have started for one reason but may be perpetuated for another. For as long as Simon has been with you in a loving way, Gilbert has been looking for ways to get a bite out of me and he is slowly, slowly changing and not being so determined to seek me out for practicing his blood drawing skills. I do believe Simon is going through something and will return back to a more predictable sweet guy soon. Blessings on you both as you figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 He's also going out of his way to bite the other birds and the dog. Twice he has snuck up on the dog and bitten her ear. And then he whimpers at her in her own voice. She has been very good about it, just looking startled and backing away. My Amazon, Kazoo, is 15 and a total sweetheart, just a laid-back, peace-loving bird, and he has been challenging her to fights lately and making her nervous. He's also flying like a maniac, dive-bombing people and animals and freaking everybody out. He's so fast! And this place isn't very big! He's terrorizing the whole household. Except Oboe, the lovebird, who thrives on all the action and excitement, and loves having a buddy to fly with. (Although Simon brushed him in mid-flight a couple days ago, and Oboe was knocked out of commission for about 15 minutes.) I really don't mind most of this stuff...it's the biting and the trust issues that bother me the most. I was always his favourite person, and now I'm becoming scared of him. I'm very sad about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katana600 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 He really is feeling his oats and making mischief. Is there a way you can let him out for a little while each evening just for some one-on-one? You certainly can't have him wreaking havoc on the poor dog and other parrots. I have had a little success with Java when she went through some unpleasantness to only let her out in the evening and if she went wild, I could turn off the light to calm her and get her into her cage again. Bless you as you deal with this trying time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 For parrots, as a developmental stage, is the terrible twos the equivalent of human terrible twos or more like human adolescence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Terrible twos!!! It will pass, be patient and go with the flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingy Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 When Jake gets bitey I say no bite in a deep growly type voice, immediately place him back on his cage top, take 2 steps from the cage and turn my back to him for a few minutes. Jake is young and is clipped so this might or might not work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLB Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'm thinking terrible two's and rebellious teen. Hang in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I never experienced this with Josey but many others have and they do go thru a rebellious period that they are testing you but it seems to pass in time so hang in there as it will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Zoom... terrible two's. Comparable to a two year old. Just my suggestion... OFF the shoulder. When bitten, say NO! Return to cage, wait five minutes like a " timeout", go get baby and try again. WRIST status only. Sophie got shoulder status once she learned she couldn't bite, and that included the entire family. Kids also put her in timeout if she bit. It was hard on them as well, but the consistency paid off. Six months later, we experienced the positive effect of our consistency, patience and love. Ten years ago, and our last bite. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 That was actually my next question...how long does it last? Do you let her on shoulders now, or was that a permanent banishment? It's so confusing. I know Simon likes me. When he's out of his cage, he just wants to hang out with me, and he wants my undivided attention. This morning he even flew upstairs to be with me. (He has never flown upstairs before.) He was so pleased with himself. But half an hour later, while I was making his breakfast, he bit my face for no apparent reason. If I understood WHY he was biting me, it would be easier. But it just seems so random and unprovoked, and that makes it much scarier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 This morning was bad. Simon was in an unusually aggressive mood right from the start, as soon as I opened his cage door. He was biting me and he didn't like that Kazoo, the Amazon, was on my partner's shoulder - he kept flying and swooping at her and shrieking and challenging her. Later, my partner put Kazoo on the boing, and a few minutes later Simon flew onto the boing and started a fight with her. I was watching but I still don't really know what happened. It was fast. They were lunging at each other, and suddenly she was screaming in pain and he flew away. She kept screaming, and her beak was opening and closing and it was like she was retching or something. She was traumatized and in pain. Simon flew back to us, where we gathered around the boing trying to take care of her. He landed on me, and I put him back in his cage. (I think he wanted to go back in. He was traumatized by the whole thing too.) After a few minutes Kazoo let me pick her up and she started settling down, and she was okay after awhile. But Simon started flapping and screaming in his cage, like he was scared. So we had to calm him down and reassure him that everything was okay. He wasn't himself for hours though - he didn't even eat breakfast, and he loves breakfast. I brought him out in the afternoon - just him, by himself - and we went upstairs and just sat and did some target training. He liked that. Then we had a shower, which he enjoyed. But this evening he was quite bitey and nervous again. I don't know what to do. I don't believe in clipping birds, but maybe in his case it might help? I'm going to make an appointment for him to see the vet and see what she thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmar Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I have been having a similar situation with sasha for the past couple months, although not quite as aggressive as yours. Now maybe a lot won't agree with me, but mine was also fully flighted, he became so irritating that two weeks ago I decided to clip his wings. He still is occasionally a little aggressive but he is much more behaved now and I don't regret doing it. (Although another reason I clipped his wings is because I am moving in a month to a new house and it has some dangers in it (gas fireplace, ceiling fans) that he isn't use to and didn't want him injuring himself) I think when I clipped his wings he realized that he now depends on me more so respects me a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Thanks Harmar. I'm taking Simon to the vet today and will discuss clipping and other options. I feel bad about clipping him since he loves flying and his flight feathers have finally grown back in after the clipping his breeder gave him as a baby. My plan had been to leave him fully flighted, as flying is probably the very best thing about being a bird. It's his superpower! But if it'll help with his behaviour problems, I'm willing to do it. Maybe even just temporarily, until he gets through this phase, and then I'll let them grow back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmar Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) I had the exact same feelings, right up to the time they clipped the wings I was second guessing myself. Sasha LOVED flying, I mean he really loved it, and I keep comparing it to I wouldn't all of a sudden want to be confined to a wheelchair after being able to use my legs.. but I know they will grow back so I will probably be willing to give him a chance again in a year or two. I was just at a loss on what to do, I was almost contemplating giving him up for adoption that is how much I couldn't stand it anymore, but thought I would try the clipping route.. and I don't regret it one bit. I sort of wonder if clipping the wings has a same affect as neutering/spading a dog or cat.. they become less aggressive, because Sasha used to be great when he was clipped.. then I let the wing feathers grow in and then he slowly became much more of a PITA Edited November 12, 2012 by harmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I trimmed my birds when they were younger.Mostly during the terrible two's. The biggest problem with trimming ( i don't believe in the word clipping), is finding the best trimmer. Birds should still be able to fly, at least eight feet in either direction, and be able to land safely.It should also be a gradual process. No bird should be flying one day, the next, not! How traumatic. I also believe birds need to learn to fly to develop chest muscles and the dynamics of flying. If they don't have this opportunity, they will never be able to fly when you gradually grow their wings back in.My birds are all fully flighted again. Trimming lasted at most, two years, but again, remember they had a fantastic trimmer that knew them from the moment they came to my home.Sophie who came home at age two was fully " clipped". Her wings grew in, we practiced flying with her.Clipping for her was minimal, as she already was not a great flyer. Kiki our Amazon, came home as a baby. To this day, she is an awesome flyer. Learned and practiced flight, trimmed at age two, full grown feathers again at age four. She is an amazing flyer. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyGrey Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I second what everyone else is saying. I have just adopted a 3 year old CAG and he is a little nippy as well. But, it could be that he is testing me since i am a new owner. I was told though that they the young one can be nippy or have the desire to bite. Its our job to work with them and correct this behaviour before it gets out of control. Hang in there and keep the faith my friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Okay, so the avian vet trimmed his wings today. She also discussed his behaviour issues, weighed him (458 grams), did a CBC, a vent swab, trimmed one of his toenails, gave me two videos (one about foraging, another about behaviour), and provided me with some insight. She thinks he just has too much freedom, and he's taking advantage of it. He needs to be reined in a bit and learn that he's not the boss of the whole household. She also recommended that I spent some time with him each day doing some training, and provide him with more things to do when he's out of his cage. (He's got tons of toys in his cage and is never bored. But outside of his cage he's just got a climber and a couple of boings and me....so he creates havoc to entertain himself.) I feel better. (Simon's feeling very subdued tonight.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmar Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 let us know how it goes, Sasha was very subdued for about 3 or 4 days or so before he started to liven up again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Don't take this wrong everyone... Trimming, at this moment, won't change the fact that "you" need to accept and guide your bird. They just want and need to understand your expectations. Trust and communication, is very important. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 I'm doing my best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbersmom Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 That's all any of us can do. Keep the faith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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