Biting question

[jangell]

Ok, so Charlie is still new to the house and we are working for a few hours every night to get him used to us. My wife is home all day, so she talks to him and interacts with him all day. Although he is doing much better than day 1, and he is opening up more and more each day, he is still a little unsure of us and his surroundings. When you do something he doesn't like, or you try to touch him/pet him without his "permission" he will bite. The bite is not hard, it's more of an action of trying to stop your hand than trying to hurt. However, occasionally he goes for the fingernail. When he does this it seems like he is almost trying to pry the fingernail off. Of course this does not feel good by any means. And I'm worried that he may eventually get ahold of a nail, mine or someone elses, and break it or pull it off.

 

So here is my question.

 

Does anyone else have a Grey that does this or has done this? If so, how did you discourage or stop it? Like I said, overall he is just grabbing ahold and not hurting. But those times when he does grab ahold, it is not a pleasant experience. And of course, when he does it, I pull back, triggering him to do it more. When he bites my finger, I can generally keep the finger there or move it in towards him and he lightens up or stops and won't do it as hard next time. Any suggestions would be helpful.

 

Thanks

Jared

[JeffNOK]

Jared, as you said Charlie is still new to the house. He will continue to be "new" to the house for several more months. My best advice is that you try to recalibrate your time tables and interact with Charlie on his terms as much as possible. A case in point is the idea of touching or petting without "permission". My general take on this is that we shouldn't impose on our birds unless we have permission. Charlie is trying to tell you "no thank you." This really ought to be respected. I have had my CAG since December, and the only time I insist on anything is when her safety is involved, such as when I have to put her in her cage when I leave for work or at bedtime. Otherwise, I think it is essential that we let them open up to us in their time and with their permission. The key now is earning trust. The fastest way to earn trust with a grey is to let them know that you respect their boundaries. When we push too far too soon we actually set ourselves back, and the relationship suffers. I'm sure in time Charlie will not exhibit much biting behavior when he knows he doesn't need to use that as a way of communicating with you. Be patient and enjoy the journey. Good luck and keep us posted on both of your beautiful birds.

Edited October 26, 2012 by JeffNOK

[Mistyparrot]

A big mistake that many people make with new Greys is to try and impose themselves on him. Most will soon learn to step up but they are very conscious that they are at a potential disadvantage and wont welcome attempts at petting. If they move away from you or beak you when you try don't push it! As he gets to trust and like you he will find a way to invite you. Most will tolerate gentle beak rubs quite easily and will quickly come to request gentle neck rubs. Grey pairs will preen each other on the back of their necks. This is the one part that they cannot reach with their own beaks. When Misty first invited me to preen him he would bow his head and say "You're alright" and he was very consistant with that. I would say "Tickle Tickle" so he also uses that as an invite. If I try to preen uninvited he will move away. Your Grey will find his own way to invite. Avoid petting any other part of their bodies. Some may come to tolerate it but it could be misinterpreted as a sexual overture from you.

It will take while for him to accept you both and the more you force yourselves yourselves on him the longer it will take. Learn to read and understand him and where possible accede to his wishes. It is important for him to feel he has some control of his situation. Talk to him and explain in simple terms what is going on as you would with a small child. You will be delighted at what he will pick up. If you can whistle to him as well. Greys love this and will help you bond. Finally don't be tempted to clip him. Flying is natural for them and makes for a healthier and more confident parrot. Despite what many people believe a clipped bird is not a safer bird but you must be vigilant with doors, widows and ceiling fans and of course hot stoves!

 

Steve n Misty

Edited October 26, 2012 by Mistyparrot

[aerial.2000]

great advice ...

 

In my OWN little experience which is VERY limited ... I can handle Marco allllllllll day long as far as getting her on my hand, moving her from cage to boing or tree stand or whatever. I can play with her with toys but DEAR GOD dont pet her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is on her OWN time and that time is about 9pm and later when she finally bows her head down and wants that quiet time loving and so Im ok with that. and I like to snuggle with her late at night before bedtime and Ive had her stand near me for an hours worth of head scratches and if I STOP!?!?! she'll make 1 quick chirp like HEY ... Im not done yet and I'll scratch some more and stop and she'll chirp again infact LOL I got it on cam I'll post soon! Shes a nut but its definately on HER terms and I dont pet anywhere else but her head/neck area.

Marco has also gone for nails but really since having her home hasnt done anything more then "beaking" or playing with me and my fingers and course I try never to be scared of her coming towards me or my hands even if its with her beak first lol. Sounds like you have great patience tho, hang in there it will come .

Edited October 26, 2012 by aerial.2000

[murfchck]

His biting but not hurting is his way of asking you to stop. Respect his wants and needs and in no time he will come to trust you and allow you to handle him. These guys are pretty darn independant and strong willed so i fear if you continue to force him before he is ready, the biting could get worse and the bonding could take a lot longer, frustrating you both. Our first reaction is to want to cuddle, pet and love them, theirs is to feel safe and understand this new adventure!

[Timbersmom]

As everyone else has said, Charlie is doing well but doesn't trust you yet. It takes them time, sometimes a lot of time. I got Timber in June of this year and it was about 6-8 weeks before he wanted my hands on him. For some it is less, for some it is more. Read the above posts carefully, there is a lot of useful information there!

[Jayd]

Beaking and biting, to different thing, one more way a Grey communicate with. When your beaked , your being told something, ie: stop/don't, more, yes, no, etc. To respond say something like "I don't like that!" "Okay" etc, never No or stop it...Immediately repeat the same jester with your verbal response, with time, the pressure of beaking will lesson, remember, when one bird beaks another, they only beak feathers, not skin. they must learn.....

[jangell]

Ok. Let me clarify the post. I don't push him to let me do anything he doesn't want. There are just times that I will do something and he comes in and beaks me. Generally it is something I have just been doing (rubbing his neck or his beak) and all of the sudden my "passport" has been revoked. Once he does it I back off and don't do it again. Anytime I go to scratch his neck, rub his beak, get him to step up, anything, I ask him first. If he makes a high pitched "beep" sound, I have learned that is his way of saying "NO". When he does this, I stop. I understand that I have to earn his trust, and I understand that pushing my luck will cause a setback. I will say though, that anytime I get beaked, or even bitten, I don't immediately back off. I will generally leave my finger/hand in his beak for a few seconds. My thought is that this shows him that the biting does not get him the reaction he wants (hopefully his cognition will help him put two and two together - biting doesn't make it stop, so I won't do it anymore) Now if he makes the "beep" sound, I immediately back off. I want to train him to "beep" instead of biting to tell me no.

 

My question was more in regards to the biting and trying to rip the fingernail off. This is what I want to get stopped or try to avoid. If he bites my finger, OK, I probably deserved it. But I'd really prefer to keep my fingernails.

[Mistyparrot]

Thanks for clarifying. You seem to be reacting in the appropriate way. With my Grey Misty if he bites in an inappropriate way which might break skin my reaction is to instantly return him to his cage with a firm "No biting!" it is not often that I have to do this and he seems to learn from this. He is only caged for a few minutes but as he preferes to be out rather than in he seems to get the point. He would say "Be good boy no biting.. Can I come out?" and I would let him out. He understands the difference between being caged for "bad" behaviour and being put in because I have to do some work or go out. His reaction is quite different. His biggest sin used to be nipping ear lobes but he has learned not to do this any more. It would happen when he was on my shoulder and he wanted to get my attention. Now he just tickles my lobe and it does get my attention! I think you need to try something similar. I get the idea that you know that punishing parrots is counterproductive but temporarily rejecting him from your company will make the point.

 

Steve n Misty

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Mistyparrot is soooo right! Back to cage.... say " NO BITE!" Return five minutes later, try again. Of coarse, you can't be mad, otherwise wait until you feel confident and not emotional. We went thru that with Sophie. Our passports got " revoked" all the time, for no reason. It took six months. Trust is a slow process for birds and they " pull the plug", whenever they feel like it. After six months, Sophie was sitting on my wrist doing this " NO BITE" discussion, biting the air instead of me. YAHOO! She got it!I knew it was a turning point! yelled to the kids " come quick!" I was dancing, happy as could be. Kids and Sophie thought I had gone crazy.I was right. It was a turning point. Noone was ever bitten ever again. A decade later.... we are so happy to have Sophie part of our lives. Nancy

[aerial.2000]

I have to admit that is what I do with Marco as well if she ever makes a BITE that harmed me or someone else it is a definate "time out" with a firm NO BITE and back to the cage (for a short time) .

[Janfromboone]

Tobie has always taken hold of my finger and pushed it away. Clearly saying no, not now. Maybe this is your birds way of doing that. Always respect a parrots right to refuse you. If it is something important like a step up then give them a couple of minutes and try again but again if they say no be willing to give them another chance later if you can.

[murfchck]

Oh yeah, agreed! Time out really works in our home, i can count on both hands with both greys how many times we have had to use it. Very effective with them. A few minutes is all it takes!