I have made a big mistake introducing my greys to each other.

[CAGLulu]

Here I am again with another question. Some of you may have read that I now have two african greys, a male and a female. Lulu, my female afrian grey is 1,5 years old and Bobbi, my male is 3 months old. I picked up Bobbi saturday so he has been with me only a few days. When I got him I was told by someone I know that when I introduce them to each other they should be placed next to each other in their own separate cages and after a day or two I should try putting them in the same cage under supervision. Well, I did that and that didn't work out well. Lulu is very afraid of him and she seems very uncomfortable when she is near him. She will fluff up when he walks up to her. She does not bite or hurt him in any way. Sometimes she will walk up to him and kinda pick at him while she is all fluffed up. I have now come to realize that what I was doing was wrong. So what should I do now? I don't want to ruin their chances of becoming good friends. I do think they can get along someday since they are so young. I just need to know how I should introduce them to each other properly :-)

[Luvparrots]

First put each of your greys back in their own cage. You can't force a friendship/relationship between any two birds be them male/female or female/female or male/male. They should have their own cages. I have three parrots, all are flighted. They do not like each other but do tolerate each other. They have under supervision found their own "pecking order". Some birds/parrots do grow to like each other but that is their choice and up to each of them.

[CAGLulu]

I have put them in their own cages. I did not mean to force a friendship between them by putting them together in the same cage, I just thought that was the right way to introduce them to each other because I have been told so. I should've done some more and better research and/or asked my breeder... Stupid me. Forgot to mention that they are also fully flighted. Now I stand with few other questions

1) Are chances good they will get along? I know it is up to the birds themselves but since they are so young should the chances not be quite good? :-)

2) If they never are near each other how do they know they do not like each other? Body language communication?

3) When do I know they will definitely not get along? After a week, month, year?

 

I really do appreciate all of your help. Sorry I'm coming up with so many questions :-)

[Jayd]

Janet is more than right, keep them in the same room just separated, they'll decide what to do...Most of the time they will coexist, thats what you want. If you want them to bond, they'll bond with each other, not you...Their from 2 different, in the wild that means their from 2 different flocks, now their in a new 3rd flock, they have to adjust to you and each other...Thanks

[Mistyparrot]

Whoever told you to put them together after just a few days was dead wrong! Lulus cage is her space and it must be up to her who she invites in and it may never happen. Greys are basically monogamous so if Lulu has a close relationship with you she won't easily accept another Grey straight off. Your male is still a baby and will be very confused. He has no affinity with Lulu but he does have a natural need to learn from an adult. Again with an adopted baby Grey that would be now you. He should develop a bond with you as well but that could lead to Lulu getting jealous. When he gets to around two his instinct may well be to seek a relationship with someone else. By then Lulu may tolerate him better but if they do pair up you could well be left in the cold. Grey relationships involving human carers and other Greys can get complicated so it is hard to predict but I think if you keep them in separate cages and supervise their together time they will grow to tolerate each other in time and even get to like each other but there are no guarantees. Greys are natural experts in body language and can read each other (and humans) very well. So they will communicate on various levels. One way is to whistle to each other so if you can encourage that by joining in if you can that may help.

 

Steve n Misty

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I agree. Coexisting should always be the goal. Separate cages at all times. Eventually... have two play gyms, see how they do next to each other. When timeout away from cage, do you have a significant other that can have one of the greys on him, one on you? Play a game together. You should focus on your greys learning to trust you first. That is the MOST important. Nancy

[CAGLulu]

When I had them in the same cage it was in Bobbi's cage. It is big cage meant for two parrots :-) What I do know now for sure is that it was completely wrong to put them in the same cage just after a few days... Nothing to do about it now other than making up the mistakes. I think time will tell what will happen. I just got the idea that when they are at such a young age bonding should not be a problem for them. That was what I had been told on other forums :-)

I think the biggest problem is that Lulu is very afraid of him. If she is on me and he is on my dad and my dad approaches me she will fly away like she has just seen a huge monster.

When can I know that it is time for them to try being out of the cage at the same time? Is there any signs or is it just something I will have to try after some time?

Again, I'm very glad for your help. Can't thank you enough :-)

[Jayd]

Sorry, the best thing to do is leave them be, let them out of their cages, they will either go on as if nothing is wrong ,or one might fly to the others cage and be accepted or told to move on, Greys are independent of each other, their main concern is themselves, not another bird.... Show equal attention to each, treat each as they demand, likes and dislikes. Let them teach you, not you teach them. You don't want them to bond, only get aong, if they bond with each other, they'll have nothing to do with any human, remember they won't be domesticated like a dog or cat for about 200,000 years, sit back, let the be. No psychology, no forcing or planning, let the show you how to coexist. Ask Dave007 about bonded Greys and breeders, read through some present threads....We have some parrots that still do as you say after all theses years, it's their way, were just caretakers. Thank Jay

Edited October 19, 2012 by Jayd

[judygram]

The others are quite right, they both need to be in separate cages and if one wants to become friends with the other then it will happen on their own and in their own time but I imagine that they will tolerate one another but not be friends. The person who told you to put them together does not know much about greys.

[aerial.2000]

did you get the 2nd bird just to have 2 or is your plan mating? :confused:

[CAGLulu]

I'll let them figure it out by themselves. I do want them to mate in the future when they are old enough and my plan was to have them in a big aviary but unfortunately it sounds like that is not going to happen? I was aware of that they might not become friends and that is why I have no problem at all keeping them both inside separated from each other :-) I can't describe to you how much I love them. I only want the best for them :-)

[Jayd]

Just remember, you've made no mistake..........Only you know your goals........Thanks.....Jay

[Jane08]

I also don't think you made a mistake or damaged your chances. You will be surprised how adaptive they are.

 

We also have a male and a female and they were about the same age, we got the female (who was 3 months then) a year after the male and wanted them to live together. We had them in separate cages when they came home and let them out together at the same time. Our male was a bully to her but she just learned to fly away from him. After 3 moths we noticed that they seemed to get on and one day the female screamed when I put her in her cage and when I took her out to see what the problem was she wanted to go to the males cage. I let her in and sat there for an hour and watched them. She checked out his cage (seeing if it met her standards to move in, hehe). I then took her out and put her back in her own cage. Over the next week we increased the time she was in his cage with him everyday until finally they were happy to be together full time. They now live together and are bonded together, but they are also bonded to us.

 

Like you say just let them work it out for themselves, you do have a good chance as they are so young just give it a few months.

[CAGLulu]

Thanks for your kind replies. Your words give me hope :-) Funny how similar our situation is Jane. Here it is just the other way around, my old female is scared of the little boy. I have now placed the cages next to each other and now they can figure it out on their own. No forcing at all. I really hope they become good friends and bond. I'll keep spending time with them everyday of course so I don't get left out in the cold :-)

[Morana]

I want to chime in;-) I actually want to say just two things since you already got so great advice. First. If you had your female for a time know, treat her in the same manner from this point on: bring her food first, give her water first, let her out first...so she would keep her status and IMO that may help prevent jealousy. Second thing, with all do respect, please do not breed greys if you haven't mastered the basics, which you obviously haven't (don't feel bad, I haven't either). IMO you should spent educating yourself constantly and observing the greys for a long time before you should even think about breeding them because it is a highly sensitive process. I get chills just thinking about all the things that may go wrong. Do find all the threads which talk about baby greys (since you have a baby). It is a good place to start as any;-)

Good luck and all the best! :-)

[CAGLulu]

Thanks for your advice Morana. I do treat Lulu as you are saying; giving her food first, taking her out first etc :-)

Now to the breeding thing, you should keep in mind that if I am able to breed on Lulu and Bobbi it will at least take 4-6 years from now on before they lay eggs. I totally agree with you that I should be more educated about greys before breeding them but if I keep on reading and learning about greys everyday, hopefully I will be educated enough to breed them in 4-6 years :-) Thanks alot! I will keep you updated. You are all very nice and kind on this forum :-)

[Jayd]

Hi, You need to speak to Dave007 about this......Just to clarify, once your Greys bond, they will no longer have anything to do with you, your duty will be to feed and care for them, they won't even be friends with you. A grey can only bond with one person or one bird at a time, bonding with another bird always takes precedents. Once mated and bonded they revert to their wild mind set, even if you separate them, there are sanctuary for pre-breeder Greys, they are no longer human compatible. You will need to find someone who is willing to teach you how to raise hatch-lings. They'll need special breeding box's, food, temperature and other condition requirements. You can breed and raise cockatiels fairly easy, they do most of the work, not so with Greys..Once again, once bonded and mated, they will be relinquished to their own world where you will become their care taker and owner, not companion or friend......Sorry for being a advocate, there's more than most people realize to breeding parrots then putting two birds in the same cage and waiting for a egg to drop and hatch.....

[AryoAsh]

I had 2 male Congos, Caesar and Cyrus, that have passed away, RIP. But I don't want to go into that story. But I do have some potentially helpful information as I have introduced my female Timneh Greycie who is 5 now to 2 different male Congos.

 

You started off perfect introducing them in a cage next to each other. But putting your baby in the other birds cage after 2 days is a big risk. You are very lucky she didn't seriously hurt him. What I did with my birds was always leave them out on top of the cage as long as I was supervising or in the room. They will get to know each other on their own, you can't force it. Trying to force it will make things worse.

 

Anyhow after a week or so they started climbing around checking each other out, my female Timneh Greycie would go on top of Caesar's cage and hang out. Then slowly within the next few weeks I walked into Greycie and Caesar in the same cage eating out of the same bowl. And when I had Cyrus I had the exact same results. Sadly both my male Congos, Caesar and Cyrus came from the same breeder and I got 2 sick babies from them. I had a necropsy done on both and I was told they were both basically born to die, which was hard to hear. Because they were both so sweet of birds. But I'm getting off track, make sure you let them out of there cage to climb on top and they will become friends.

 

One more big piece of advise that I would follow that I got when I got my 2nd parrot is always do things for your 1st parrot 1st. Now I know that might sound confusing but I'll give some examples. Like I'm sure you cover your birds, when you wake up in the morning always uncover the parrot you've had the longest first. If you had 3 parrots it would be the same way. The 1st one 1st the 2nd one 2nd the 3rd one 3rd regardless of age, in my opinion you need to take care of the parrot you've had the longest first. Because if you don't jealously can happen, and that's what makes birds start hating each other. Same thing with feeding, giving water, saying hello, all that. It might not sound important to some people but it makes a big difference.

 

Parrots are some of the smartest animals but they are exactly like little kids. I hope some of this helps you and isn't repetitive suggestions you've been receiving. I hope all is well.

[CAGLulu]

Hm... I'm confused now.. So if my greys bond they will not have anything to do with me? That sounds a bit strange. I know people that have two or more greys that are bonded to each other and they can still play, cuddle, train them etc. Even my breeder that have bonded greys in aviaries can play and cuddle with them and they must be more wild than those living inside the home :-)? My breeder told me that he will teach me everything there is to know about hatchlings I just have to tell him. He is a very good and helpful breeder :-) Again, I do not understand the fact that once they bond with another grey you will not be their friend because I have seen otherwise :-) Maybe I'm misunderstanding something? As you probably have read I'm not the best english talker hehe :-)

Your advice are very helpful AryoAsh and I will take every single one and learn from them :-) For now I'm keeping them in separate cages and they are only out one at a time, if they are out on the same time in the same room Bobbi will fly over to her which will cause her to panic and fly all over the place. Sometimes I do have them out on the same time just in different rooms :-)

[Jayd]

Hm... I'm confused now.. So if my greys bond they will not have anything to do with me? That sounds a bit strange. I know people that have two or more greys that are bonded to each other and they can still play, cuddle, train them etc. Even my breeder that have bonded greys in aviaries can play and cuddle with them and they must be more wild than those living inside the home :-)? My breeder told me that he will teach me everything there is to know about hatchlings I just have to tell him. He is a very good and helpful breeder :-) Again, I do not understand the fact that once they bond with another grey you will not be their friend because I have seen otherwise :-) Maybe I'm misunderstanding something? As you probably have read I'm not the best english talker hehe :-)

Your advice are very helpful AryoAsh and I will take every single one and learn from them :-) For now I'm keeping them in separate cages and they are only out one at a time, if they are out on the same time in the same room Bobbi will fly over to her which will cause her to panic and fly all over the place. Sometimes I do have them out on the same time just in different rooms :-)

 

Thanks, Bonding and being friends are two different things. As I mentioned: Fact: A Grey will only bond with 1 Grey or 1 human at a time, but can become friendly with many...Fact two: Once your Greys are bonded and in the process of breeding, they will be each unto themselves, you'll be out of the picture. Most Grey's will not tolerate outside intervention.

Fact 3: Just because a male and female are together doesn't mean they will bond or even become friends, you can have a male and female that are friend but never mate. It doesn't evolve ragging hormones as in humans, dogs and other animals. You can have a aviary full of Greys, both sexes and the will get along ans socialize with each each other as well as humans, they are flock animals [FRIENDS]. Once a pair is made and mating/breeding commences, they are no longer social, at this point they are bonded to each other...[Note: Not all species of parrots are like this!]

Only you can decide what is right and what is wrong, The minute you pair off a pair bonded committed Grey and start introducing stimulation:diet, temperature, lighting, proper breeding box etc, you'll be entering a whole new world. To correct any misunderstanding I might have made, bonded Grey's, and socialized Greys are to different kinds of birds...

My famous last words, "Research"...Thanks, great post....Dave could explain so much more.......Jayd

 

Parrots will not become domesticated for another 200,000 years or more, they are truly wild animals, unlike our domesticated dogs and cats.....

Edited October 20, 2012 by Jayd

[CAGLulu]

Alright... So what you are saying is that my two greys can become friends and I can still play with them, cuddle them etc. but if they start to breed then I'll be totally out of the picture? I'm confused because I know people who have greys that has laid eggs many times before and they live in aviaries but their owner can still interact with them. They are very friendly towards them even though they have laid eggs before. Do you mean that I'll be out of the picture only in the time of breeding - the time they are about to lay eggs?

I love to research about greys and other parrots. I do it everyday so hopefully I'm getting more information and getting more knowledge :-)

Still waiting for dave to chime in and tell me more hehe ;-)

Thanks a lot for your help - all of you.

I can now tell you that after having them next to each other i separate cages and only out one at a time Lulu is still afraid of him but not as much as she was before. They are getting all the time they need but I think I'm seeing a bit of progress :-)

[Jayd]

I'm very sorry if I'm not explaining my self clearly. We have a complicated process going on at my end, Maggie [spock] reads me the post a couple of times, I dictate to her what I want to say, she types it and reads it back to me, I edit it if needed and she corrects it and retypes it then submits it....LOL

It would be great if you could speak to Dave. What your going to have to do is go with what you believe in...Thanks Jayd

[CAGLulu]

LOL, now it becomes clear why I can't understand what you are saying ;-)

No need to apologize but thanks :-) It is more likely me misunderstanding or simply not understanding what you are telling me but I do now after reading it through again. I'm originally from Lebanon but I live in Denmark so my main languages are arabic and danish :-)

[Dave007]

Hm... I'm confused now.. So if my greys bond they will not have anything to do with me? That sounds a bit strange. I know people that have two or more greys that are bonded to each other and they can still play, cuddle, train them etc. Even my breeder that have bonded greys in aviaries can play and cuddle with them and they must be more wild than those living inside the home :-)? My breeder told me that he will teach me everything there is to know about hatchlings I just have to tell him. He is a very good and helpful breeder :-) Again, I do not understand the fact that once they bond with another grey you will not be their friend because I have seen otherwise :-) Maybe I'm misunderstanding something? As you probably have read I'm not the best english talker hehe :-)

Your advice are very helpful AryoAsh and I will take every single one and learn from them :-) For now I'm keeping them in separate cages and they are only out one at a time, if they are out on the same time in the same room Bobbi will fly over to her which will cause her to panic and fly all over the place. Sometimes I do have them out on the same time just in different rooms :-)

 

Just about everyone has given good advice about many basic things concerning the human to bird or the bird to bird relationships. But everything here isn'tset in stone. What may happen right now with your birds may be in your favor. On the other hand, maybe not. One of the best things to do with pet greys ( for the person who has more than one) is to keep them in separate living quarters because greys each have totally different personalites from each other. The only way for you to experience the very intricate and detailed personality WITH YOU is to keep them separated. That allows each bird to show their full personality without any interference from another bird. You'll never know that full scope of each bird when they're together. They can play all day, they can hang out together but each bird has to have it's own place to go back to which is HOME which is the cage. Each bird designs a cage to their own likes. It'll be different than the next cage. Wanna practice talking to them? Again, they need to be separate because both birds may repeat the exact same thing or not repeat it or only one may repeat it. How does a person know the bird's capabilities? Separate HOMES. Wanna have a specialized relationship with each of those birds? Separate HOMES. Wanna see who's more jealous or possessive? Separate HOMES. Wanna let each bird feel very relaxed when it feels like playing with it's own toys? Separate HOMES. Wanna watch as each bird's personality develops? Separate HOMES. And I can tell you that your birds have come no where near what their final adult personalities will be. There's a lot of other reasons for separate HOMES and none will hurt the birds as far as their liking each other. Wanna see who's the more dominant or passive bird? Separate HOMES. It's very possible that keeping 2 greys in one cage will actually hamper one or the other as far as showing their individuality.

But, if you wanna put them together than go for it. My opinion is that greys are so drastically different from each other that I would wanna enjoy each bird by letting them show me their differences.

All greys are different and that includes breeding birds. What may go on at your breeder's house is not necessarily the same as what goes on in another breeder's house. I have breeders. When breeding season is over, all are put into a communal aviary. I and my wife can deal with all of them. We;re the owners and they've lived with us for years but if you came around them in that communal area you would see very different birds. I'll put it this way---you would really wanna get out of that aviary quickly.

 

Everyone who gets different parrots thinks about breeding them in the future. It's only natural. But as time goes on you'll see that because your birds are very complex you'll forget that idea.

Basically, everyone is saying to keep them separate. Is that so hard? Everyone knows where their birds are at. Let each develop separately. There's not really much more to say, at least from me. Look through the whole thread. Recheck what people have said. Focus on good individual relationships with those greys.

Like Jayd said, you may be confusing the words bond and friend. You say that you don't know much about raising greys. Dealing with greys is different than dealing with other parrots. Dealing with Amazons is different than dealing with Cockatoos which is different than dealing with macaws which is different than dealing with conures which is different than dealing with eckletus etc etc etc.

People here aren't telling you what will or won't happen. They're telling you what may or may not happen and they're trying to put you on that safe and happy path.

 

Anyway, you've got a lotta years to go by before you may or may not consider breeding these birds.

 

Even in the human world, identical twins need to be dealt with separately because each excells where the other doesn't.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Dave007

[Jayd]

Thank you and Bless you Dave.........