camoka Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Hello everyone..I found this website while I was trying to get information about Greys..I am living in Yaounde/Cameroon sinc 1.5 years and there are really incredible birds around here..Before I get my Grey I wanted to learn about this birds..I had many canaries before when I was younger and really loved them but taking care of a grey seems a little different I see time to time local people selling parrots in the streets which they cought from the forests along other animals..I will send my maid to her hometown (Bamenda) where there are plenty of Greys since that part of the country is their natural habitat and shell get me one right from the wild Will be interesting experience Edited October 8, 2012 by camoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hello Camoka and welcome to our family. Its not that I don't wish you to have a grey for your own but please do not buy one captured from the wild, please try to find one from a breeder, a just weaned baby is what you want. I thoroughly dislike the capture of wild parrots for the pet trade, these birds have grown up in their native habitat and it is cruel to try to tame them when the only thing they know is where they have lived their whole life plus the way they are captured some are injured and killed in the process and even one is one too many. How else can we stop this horrendous trade unless people quit buying them as it only leads to more and more of it happening. Now I will get off my soapbox and tell you to learn all you can before you bring one of these awesome creatures into your life so you will be prepared for what is ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camoka Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Hello and thank you With all due respect things maybe looking different from the states but this is africa and I dont think you know africa..It is another planet,another world..You speak out your feelings maybe or what you want to see which I also agree with you and this is what it should be but reality is different..First off all there are no breeders here..There is no necessity When I look at where I am it will be really funny to ask to locals for a breeder in cameroon.. Local people eating this birds along other animals from bushes like monkeys,alligators even I saw them eating an armadillo :confused: and they call all that animals "bush meat".. for them bush meat tastes same or similar like how we feel about any sea product This is how it looks like.. http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/camoka_photos/Kamerun/IMG_2801.jpg Sometime on the side of the roads I see green parrots ..I dont stop usually to take some pictures because locals are very agressive when they see whiteman taking pictures..Some of the parrots I see are totally green some are with red colors which they captured right from the forest but that birds are usually big and they seem kinda wild.. Since parrots are still plenty around the world people should consider focusing more on ivory trade ..I cant describe the massacre..Mostly done because chinese are crazy for it..Just recently there was a massacre of about 200 elephants in the Chad border of Cameroon which is in the north..They came at them with machineguns..It is sad really..But this is what africa is about..Local people have no respect for their own lands nature and animals and since there is also poverty white man taking advantage of the situation. I have 2 little boys and I want this bird for them..I am myself interested in birds since my childhood but had to give a break for a long time because of businesses..With this parrot I will look how it goes at home..If it goes bad Ill release him..If the bird adapts well,I will get a second one Maybe I will go myself to Bamenda as there is a bird refuge and get it from there..For now waiting for my cage which will come from another country and until then I am reading all the info you have posted..Thank you for this website and for your efforts by the way Edited October 8, 2012 by camoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Yes, you may be right. The US and Africa may be world's apart. Please understand that the infio given out on this board and many other parrot boards has to do with baby parrots or adult parrots who've already been owned by people wjho need to get them adopted or about rescue centers that do the adoptions. Just about every adult bird has been owned by someone. These are adult birds which are called *pre owned* birds. These birds have habits and personalities that have developed starting when they were young birds all the way up to being adults. So, the only help you can get is concerning adult birds. In your country baby birds aren't sold if they can't be captured. The birds you speak of are captured in the wild and sold in open markets. Their health isn't known. Many are killed when being captured. Their personalities aren't known but them being wild adult birds tells alot about what type of birds they are. Usually, they can never be pet birds. Thankfully, in 1992 exportation was stopped from Africa to here and many other countries. It's now against the law to poach greys in Africa. There's now organizations that try to halt poaching. Punishment is now severe. I can't speak about the other wild animals that are caught, killed and hung on the roads and used as bush meat. Concerning the organizations that stopped illegal bird exporting, it was white, black, oriental, african people and other races who were involved in getting that started. As long as people buy those wild birds from Africa, there will always be trouble, anger and heartache. This is a video which shows that the african people are finally starting to act in a civilized manner but understand that the birds you see can't be pets because these are the type of birds that Africa was illegally selling through exportation. They're wild birds, adults and can't be tamed. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?196727-Freedom__repeat-video-for-newbies Edited October 9, 2012 by Dave007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camoka Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Hello dave Thanks for the reply.I am from Turkey living in cameroon for business purposes..Yes there are risks of health issues since they are captured from the wild but there is no alternative here..I think if I get one as small as possible,by time I can get over adaptation issues..If that doesnt work I can always release him..I am here for another 4 years so I have plenty time to work on that..You know all that laws import bans etc are all on paper here in africa..If you come here you will know what I mean..On the paper it is forbidden to take this birds out of the country but when you show 50 dollar anything can be done..That video is just a little exception..Nobody will punish nobody here over a bird since there are much more critical issues other than birds like lack of water,security,poverty, diseases like H.I.V,malaria etc..Most people have no running clean water or electricity,toilet or houses here..They live in a little shelter looking wood houses very similar to the ones they build in forests when they were living there (there are still many living in forests) Offcourse unless you make mass export take attention and doesnt pay enough bribe to the necessary people story is different..People have no clue here and they dont care..They are busy cutting down the rainforests and eating whatever they can to survive..White mans discovery of this part of the world just speeded up the process.. Edited October 8, 2012 by camoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffNOK Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I would ask you to think very very long and hard before you take in a wild caught bird. A wild caught African Grey will be taken from his flock-- and ripped away from what he knows. He will be traumatized and a terrified. He will be difficult if not impossible to tame. You said if it doesn't work out, you can always release him. What do you think releasing him would mean? He doesn't have a flock anymore and would surely die very quickly. No doubt many people in Cameroon catch and sell wild caught greys. This may not change, and one person's decision may not seem to make any difference. I believe, however, that you have a moral choice here. I know i am speaking from an American perspective which may seem at odds with how you have been raised regarding animals but I pray that you take a moment to consider the cost even to that one individual bird. Can you offer him a better life than he already has? Do you plan to live forever in Cameroon? you say you are Turkish. Are you going to return to Turkey? I believe Turkey has breeders of greys. Can you wait? Please please just think about this before you act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camoka Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Jeff you are making this dramatic here..What I meant by releasing him was to bring back to the refuge where I am going to take him from..They are already captive there.and your bird is not that different..At the end you are putting them in a cage or keeping them in your house for your own pleasure isnt it?Who is asking to the birds what they want?Did you ask to your bird if he likes to live captivated?If they give you a nice cage and food etc would you accept other people to limit your freedom? There is no end of this if we go into that..You buy from a shop or get from the forest is the same thing unless you start trading it..You limit their freedom..Do you have right to do that in first place? Edited October 9, 2012 by camoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote=camoka;269488 I see time to time local people selling parrots in the streets which they cought from the forests along other animals..I will send my maid to her hometown (Bamenda) where there are plenty of Greys since that part of the country is their natural habitat and shell get me one right from the wild Will be interesting experience What you wrote and how you are trying to justify your decision do not gel. First our birds are not wild caught, we are not removing them from their " natural habitat " ( your words) and " right from the wild " ( again, your words ). " Will be interesting experience"? These birds are not an experiment for your whim. Lets say you remove one from their natural habitat and things don't work out and you just open your door and let him out, you have delivered him a death sentence. No flock to protect him, he is on his own. Does this bird you have snatched up for your amusement have a mate, babies he is protecting, feeding? They mate for life you know. How many will die because of you? Why not get one someone else snatched and has already damaged and try like hell to help that bird have a chance at a life and not be on someones dinner table because it bit them. And they will bite, don't kid yourself into thinking you can take the wild out of them if thats all they have known. This is a sad thread that breaks my heart to read. Jeff was not being dramatic as you said, he was being real in a real situation. You stated you found us because you wanted to learn about greys, well please learn. Learn that you can make a change and help these birds and not become one of the people that hundreds of thousands of us are trying to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camoka Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Listen mate..Dont try to twist my words by quoting from here and there..You very well know what I meant..You are justifying it not me..I am telling the truth and it hurts.Your birds arent wild cought doesnt mean anything..At that point you try to justify putting an animal into a cage and make yourself feel good..You have no right to do that in first place..Do you limit their freedom for your own pleasure?YES..What is the difference?Are your birds robots?They belong to wild..They have instincts..If you release your bird into a forest which it never seen before,it will be more happy than it is in your house..This is a fact..Why dont you do that if you are so sensitive like in that video posted above?Or will you be worrying the 1000 whatever bucks you spend on your bird for nothing?When I said experience I didnt mean that I will make experience on them by trying new vaccines..What do you feel before you get a new bird?This is probably what I feel.You know texas is pretty different place than in Yaounde..Younde is surrounded by rainforests..It will make its way..If not it will die..This is part of the nature and dont blame me for that.That goes for every animal in the wild.Do you have any idea how many birds dies everyday in the world because of the natural reasons?You are way overreacting.. Edited October 9, 2012 by camoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffNOK Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Camoka, At first I didn't read anything in your posts about a refuge. I just caught the part about your maid going to her hometown to get one from the wild. Upon reading a later post I see that you mentioned a refuge. I'm sorry for my oversight. Obviously if there is a safe place for it to be released that is better. I just had this image in my mind of your maid going out and catching some free bird to bring back to you in a cage. If there are already wild caught birds and the damage has already been done, then it is somewhat different. That bird will end up being sold one way or the other and perhaps you could provide it a better home than it otherwise would have had. I also agree that things are not black and white even with regards to having hand fed birds sold in the pet trade. I often have some doubts about that as well. Having said that, I don't think it is the same to get a baby hand fed bird and getting one from the wild. My bird does not know a life in the wild, and she learned to bond with humans as a baby and quite strongly with me afterwards. A wild caught bird will probably never bond with people. One other concern I have that I didn't mention earlier is that you said you are getting the bird mainly for your children. Even hand fed greys are not recommended for children. Greys are generally not comfortable with children. A wild caught grey could be potentially dangerous with children. Now, I will not say anymore on the matter. I'm sorry if I seemed judgmental or dramatic. Whatever you decide to do, I hope you will take several months and do a lot of research before bringing a wild caught bird home. I am glad you are here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The birds in my home are all rescues from people who got in over their head. I know what i am doing is right by and for them. They are free flighted indoor and have large aviaries outdoors. I twisted no words, that was your quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camoka Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Jeff Thank you for your post and the welcome and letting me know about the children and greys..I will take it very easy and woudnt bring children near for a few months also until If I see some development about the bird adapting the surrounding then maybe slow slow I can let them get closer..I am sorry that I wasnt clear enough..As you probably understand I can also get this birds from the streets of Yaounde and my maid is from a city where this birds have a refuge(there are many here).I woudnt send her after catching birds as it will look stupid and I dont think she will want that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camoka Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 The birds in my home are all rescues from people who got in over their head. I know what i am doing is right by and for them. They are free flighted indoor and have large aviaries outdoors. I twisted no words, that was your quote. You see,you again try to justify yourself..This is what you think..That birds of yours will be more happy in the wild and theyll decide about their destiny not you..As you said they fly "indoors" which means they are still captive..You must be feeling peacefull now huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murfchck Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I am, thanks. I was actually going to add that i too had not seen the refuge part, as your first statement is what stood out. But your defensiveness to my statement and your trying to turn it around onto me says alot. For all i was saying was not to get it from the wild, get someone elses that they couldn't handle. I will not get into an arguement with you. Best of luck with whatever you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerial.2000 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 phew ... thats some morning reading before my first cup of coffee :eek: :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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