TeriG Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Naturally clumsy or is it just my guy? I don't know if he has been clipped in the past. He can't fly and it looks like he is missing his flight feathers on his right side. Maybe even some on the left. So I dont know if they were clipped off or if he pulled them. Is he clumsy because he never learned to fly? I was just curious. I am always telling him "careful" when he slips or misses his perch, so now if he misses he will say "careful". It's so funny! Thanks, Teri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 hi teri thanks for bringing this topic!!my grey also like yours,beside he was wild caught he was clipped very bad on his right wing and i never see it grow.the left side wing already fully grow now but the right side still bald.he keep trying to fly many times and always fall down.i dont even know if his wing will ever grow. he really clumsy as well and mostly not in mood to interact with other people/stranger specially men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 They can be very clumsy. Flying when fully flighted, does take practice. I would find an avian vet or groomer, to let you know the status of your birds wings. When teaching our birds to fly, we had two people involved. We are lucky to have a huge family room. One to start the flight, another person on the receiving end. Sounds like a game of football, but it worked for us. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistyparrot Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Clipping can certainly cause Greys to seem clumsy. A properly fledged grey is not at all clumsy.It can be very upsetting for them particularly if it is one wing clipped more than the other. It can take a long time for clipped flights to grow back. Personally I think it is pointlessly dangerous thing to do to any parrot. Just thinking about it makes me mad and sad!:mad: Steve n Misty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeriG Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Will his feathers grow back normal? How long is a long time for them to grow back? I always thought it was weird for a bird to be clumsy. I don't think I would ever clip him, but it does scare me a little giving him flight. I'm planning on building an outdoor avary for him when we build our house, but that might be awhile. Till then I worry about the dogs and cats colliding with the bird! So I don't think I will try to teach him flight till then. But if he tries on his own I won't stop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Sophie WAS clipped when we got her . I DO believe in trimming, after a baby has learned to fly 100%. They need to develop chest muscles. I can only say, Sophie has NEVER been the best flyer, since she never learned. We have always practiced with her, but she still prefers to walk. she is 100% flighted, and thinks she can do anything. Occasionally, I forget to close basement door when doing wash, she has flown down and scared the crap out of me. Her flight is marginal. Kiki our Amazon, whom we've had since a baby, can fly with perfect accuracy. I did trim her when she was going thru the terrible two's, so she could focus on learning. It never affected her negatively. Kiki flies quite well, Sophie loves to see her fly. At the end of the day, Sophie still rules, but appreciates the beauty of Kiki flying. She is not jealous, and is happy, but sometimes I wonder... " what if"... if Sophie had learned to fly as a baby. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasota Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Don't buy into it! Our Greys can be clumsy in our homes...so can Amazons, Macaws, Ringnecks, Budgies, Canaries, Conues.... Abnormal environments produce abnormal results. Watch a video of wild Greys. They are as beautiful and graceful as any bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I do have one clumsy grey, Sterling Gris, he is now 1 1/2 years old. He was lightly clipped when I got him at 5 months and has always bullied through flying, clipped or not. He is clumsy but he is a big guy (505g) and very determined. He is still losing clipped feathers and is still clumsy. He falls off of his night perch some nights but keeps on trucking. Like I said he is determined. Ana Grey, tag, flies like a jet, quick and maneuvers beautiful. Louie, the zon, is steady and sure. Sterling Gris is slow like a helicopter but gets there in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Sarasota... what do you mean, " don't buy into it" We all start from A... we either have birds that were abused, or clipped. We want them to fly. I practice flying like crazy! Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 If I may say so, Greys have a tendency to be less surefooted then most parrots. Greys that were fledged properly sometimes still might remain not as surefooted as others. A Grey is a thinking parrot, they plan their every move before doing anything so each step is a cautious one as opposed to a Zon or other parrots who just "DO". This also goes for rescues, re-homed, old, young..it doesn't matter. They can all have different degrees of clumsiness. This exemplifies the differences of the Greys throughout the entire forum. If you notice in natural habitat videos of our beloved Greys, that is a totally trusted flock environment. Their main concern is foraging and their right eye looking over their shoulders for predators. In all seriousness, though it sounds funny, you'll observe them (Greys) stepping all over each other, and walking aimlessly as they seek their morning or evening meal. Another funny side-note: in all the Greys we fledged compared to other parrots, the size of their feet was not always in proportion to their bodies. Some Greys can't walk without stepping on the toes of their other foot...As far as fledging goes, the Conures have the best method...the male Conure determines when their babies are fledged. They literally kick them out of the nest, either by squawking or shoving...saying "Ready or not baby, you're out of the nest!". Due to this, it's good for perspective Conure owners. A Conure baby does not have to be hand-fed, just socialized because when they are rooted from their nest, the new human owner will be their first flock. Thanks, Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasota Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Sarasota... what do you mean, " don't buy into it" We all start from A... we either have birds that were abused, or clipped. We want them to fly. I practice flying like crazy! Nancy I mean - don't buy into the generalization and the constructs. If we automatically label something as "clumsy" or "a biter" then we limit the possibilities for change (or being the creators of change). An extreme example: Let's say an African Grey falls off its perch a lot. The owner is told, "Well, Greys are just clumsy!!" Then the owner may not look any further into it. The bird could be sick, or have a horrible wing clip that goes unnoticed. I think every animal should be seen as an individual. If you want a super example....Green Aracaris are touted as "extremely quiet birds." Oh yeah? Tune into my webcam sometime and listen to my male mouth off! And I want to see you practice flying!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 LOL! Practicing flying is awesome! When kids get back from college, I will ask them to take videos. Of course, all birds should be treated differently. They all have unique abilities, and are encouraged to be, the best they can be Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Thank you Sarasota, I agree with your general premise, but in some instances, some statements are fact. Like your example, in the case of a Grey, being clumsy is a truth, [iT SHOULD READ:Some or most greys are clumsy] Like your example, "Aracaris are Quiet," is a untruth. It should read, "Some or most Aracaris are quiet.". This is a fact not a label....Thanks, always look forward to you posts...Jayd Edited September 14, 2012 by Jayd corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasota Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 ...Like your example, in the case of a Grey, being clumsy is a truth...This is a fact not a label....Thanks, always look forward to you posts...Jayd We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one! I don't think there's anything in their skeletal or muscular structure that makes them more clumsy than another bird. And mine have never shown any signs of it. So I guess we - in the case of my two greys - have to change it to "some greys" or "most greys." I look forward to your posts as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one! I don't think there's anything in their skeletal or muscular structure that makes them more clumsy than another bird. And mine have never shown any signs of it. So I guess we - in the case of my two greys - have to change it to "some greys" or "most greys." I look forward to your posts as well. Thank you for pointing out my error, I corrected it in the post. I gave the example of the Aracaris but forgot to say the same thing for the Greys. This is a problem with me trying to dictate to Maggie and have her type it, she trys so hard, sorry, I have a slight "Short term Memory Problem". You wouldn't believe the feelings not to be able to see or type what's exactly in your mind when you want to type it...When it gets to bad, I'll leave the posting to Maggie instead of creating errors. Our Spock was never clumsy, Joe is another story lol. Sorry everyone...Jayd Edited September 14, 2012 by Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingy Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 The past few days I have really watched Jake and how moves. When he is just cruising around his play table or his play top he has a routine. He always follows certain routes which take him around hazards. For instance he'll go left off of the ladder, under it and around to the left of it to stand on the bar on the edge. He could go right, take 2 steps and be at the same location but he does not. His steps are measured, calculated and he is very very quiet. There have been a few times where I was rearranging toys where he has come around and I didn't know it until he jumped on my head. OTOH when he is playing hard and in full attack mode or there is something that he really wants all that goes out the window. Then he is like a bull in a china shop. I had a lot of fun observing his movements the past few days. Thanks for bringing this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) In my opinion and observances , infantile/young greys are some what clumsy , as all birds and creatures (Dogs, Cats etc.) are at first. But, once they get their coordination motor controls and synapses built and going properly, it become less and less apparent clumsiness wise and they are no longer clumsy at all. Older greys never allowed to fledge and also that have say talons trimmed flat on the tips will lose grip, slip fall etc. Non-fledged birds are more clumsy due to the mental synapses needed for a well rounded bird never being created by flight at a young age. Even my birds, when the tips are taken off their nails, slip sometimes on a smooth perch due to them not yet being adjusted to the sudden loss of traction. I will quote Sally Blanchard " Some literature states that African greys are clumsy birds. This is simply not true. They may appear to land in a clumsy manner as they grab hold of thin twig size branches on the trees and struggle to maintain their balance as the branches sway with their weight. I think that the ability to hang on to these moving twigs and branches is certainly proof of their athletic abilities. Just knowing some very basic information about wild African greys has helped me to understand a great deal about meeting their needs as companions." You can read her comments on the environment we humans have them confined to and how we can make indoor life a little more bird friendly for them at : https://companionparrotonline.com/AFRICAN_GREY_Caging.html Edited September 14, 2012 by danmcq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) Sarasota said it best :Quote: If we automatically label something as "clumsy" or "a biter" then we limit the possibilities for change. Unquote.....Her reply is not only from reading but from personal experience with many different types of birds. I enjoy her posts, they never seem to include ego. Thanks Jayd Edited September 14, 2012 by Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeriG Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Thanks for all your input guys! I have been watching Virgil more and I can see where he really isn't clumsy per say, just cautious. He will occasionally slip while trying to reach his foot out to something that is just a little too far, but he will most times catch himself. I think he really wants to fly. He just started launching himself off his playstand and fluttering/falling to the floor. And oh does he get upset when I pick him up and put him back! He will immediately run over to our area rug and start pulling it apart! I have tried giving him toys while on the floor, but all he wants is the rug. So back to his cage or playstand he goes. After the 3rd time or so he will give up. He's not really into just sitting with me and getting scratches. He always wants to be getting into something. I'm sure a lot of it is because in his previous home he was stuck in his cage almost all the time. So now all he wants to do is explore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbersmom Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Timber's main area of "clumsiness" is getting his nails caught in things. That is something they don't deal with as much in the wild. Rugs, grills etc. are natural "nail catchers." When they are in the cage, their wings (that they use for balance in the wild) hit the cage sides, bars etc. What I'm trying to say is that the things we have in our house aren't their natural habitat, hence the "clumsiness." Hope that made sense, but it's already been said by others on this thread anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasota Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 He's not really into just sitting with me and getting scratches. He always wants to be getting into something. That's great! He's getting really comfortable. Some birds just aren't the head scratch type...BUT that can change. Hard rules hardly apply when it comes to living with a parrot. They keep you on your toes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeriG Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Virgil definitely keeps me on my toes. I always know he's up to something when he gets really quiet. Normally he's constantly talking and whistling. If he stops, I go to him and sure enough he's on the floor chewing at the rug! LoL. Then he fluffs up and backs away from me, cause he knows I am going to put him back. We go through this every day now. I wish I had a room that he could be in and not get into trouble! He will when we build our new home, but that might be awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 TeriG... thats great that you will build him a room! Its important in my opinion. BUT....Virgil is still gonna get in trouble! LOL! Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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