JeffNOK Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) I think I may have created a monster. A few weeks ago when I was housesitting for my parents, Gracie would bark and call over their Toy Fox Terrier and throw her food bowl on the floor to feed him. I admit I thought it was cute and Gracie picked up on that. Now Gracie is throwing food and toys with abandon! For breakfast I usually give her mixed veggies and a little bit of egg white-not the yolks. She loves the egg. Well one morning I gave her just veggies. Well diva Gracie searched around for the egg and finding none--she tossed her food bowl on the floor. I collected the veggies, put them back in the bowl and returned it to her. She eyed me, and then with defiance threw the bowl three times farther with a big Sqwawk! Now whenever she is finished with her food, she eyes me and throws her bowl. In addition, she now has figured out how to unscrew the fasteners on her hanging toys, She twists the clasp until it unlocks. Then she she lifts the toys off the hooks and drops the toys--sometimes flinging them like her food. What should I do? I mean, I can't leave food and toys strewn across the floor, but I suspect Gracie gets a kick out of me coming to put things back in place. She even does this more if I leave the room. In the morning during breakfast if I dare to leave the room, I immediately hear--"Crash--clang clang". I return to find a mess I have to clean up. I know I am reinforcing the behavior, but I can't just leave food and toys littering the floor. What adds insult to injury is that after she throws things she keeps saying.."Step up Step up!" It's like I am her servant. I am frustrated but also impressed. I mean she knows how to work me. She is almost one year old and behaves almost idenitically to a one year old human child throwing food from the high-chair. Ugh... Edited July 11, 2012 by JeffNOK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 You knew Gracie, impressed me with her intelligence! Yes,,, you can leave her bowl, on the floor, where she sent it! You are NOT her servant! When she says " stepup", then she should " stepup!". Ignore the bowl throwing. Focus on " stepup!". She is offering you an opportunity, to be trained. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray P Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 OH they do know how to work you and the word DIVA is on the few words list. Ignor the bad and praise the good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 We are their servants, their caretakers and providers...We brought them into our world, not as slave or things to give orders too, but to give them a better life.....And to Love............................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingy Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) Honestly I would leave it all on the floor for a bit and ignore the mess. After 5 minutes I would go back and rehang the toys but discard the food. It is my belief that cause and effect is an excellent teacher. If you don't reinforce her "cheeky" behavior she'll move on to something else. If she continues to take her toys down and throw them place the ones that are safe to be loose in a bowl inside her cage, say something like "doing a bit of rearranging today?, and go about your business, later on hang them back up with out a fuss and go on. While the toys are in the bowl she will think about where the toys go and might even try putting them back on her own which is always a hoot to watch. When I had quakers they did this a lot and learned which toys not to throw to the bottom of the cage because they couldn't hang them back up. Now this is not for any bird with trust issues or that stresses when things are changed. With trust issues I just waited a bit, quietly cleaned up the mess and rehung the toy. Edited July 11, 2012 by Wingy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinsmom Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 In my house birds who throw things dont get them back. It only takes a few times to realize that if you toss your breakfast, you dont eat until dinner (pellets always available so they wont starve), if you toss your fav toy it isnt being put back until bedtime. I did the same thing with my kids when they were small and it had the same effect, think twice before throwing things. It also helps to use heavy crocks so they cant even lift them, never mind toss them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Near as I can tell, watching things hit the floor is just endless fun for a grey. Things that crash when they land get extra points. Watching parronts pick things up off the floor gets extra points. Full marks for anything that hits the floor & crashes, causing everyone (else) to jump out of their skin before having to pick up A mess! ...and it just never gets old! Alas, being the grumpy old lady that I am, I'm just not that amused by this particular game. So, any of the fids who like to fling their cups get locking food cups. Any toy that has to be picked up m/t twice, gets put away, away, until the next time I rotate the toys. But just because Phenix, particularly loves to throw things so much, I do play catch w/the fids. They get so excited when they see the baseball sized cat ball w/the bell inside. Much too funny to watch my Quaker trying to manhandle that thing! lol It used to tick me off. But eventually I found a way to turn a bad habit into a pretty fun thing for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffNOK Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 The last couple of days when I saw Gracie about to fling something I said..."No...no no". She stopped. Hopefully that will continue as long as I have an eye on her. If I am not being observant, however, I'm afraid she will just fling and throw to her heart's content. I may end up putting her dinner in a bowl fastened to the cage. It may come to that. I still can't figure out how she unscrews the fasteners on her toys. I get them really tight, but alas she has somehow learned "righty tighty--lefty loosey". I still get confused with that sometimes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdhouse Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I still can't figure out how she unscrews the fasteners on her toys. I get them really tight, but alas she has somehow learned "righty tighty--lefty loosey". I still get confused with that sometimes! Hahaha Just one of the many reasons why they think they should rule the roost. Me too, btw. I'm dyslexic & it just makes things like quick links a little more frustrating sometimes. Gracie might enjoy it if you make a chain of quick links for her to dismantle. Have you tried that, yet? Phenix' new trick is unscrewing the door behind his cups. I've got the nuts & screw in a different order now & it's making him so-o-o mad that he can't take it apart anymore (she said, keeping her fingers crossed!). He keeps smashing it up & down in place. The door is a solid metal plate that makes a heck of a racket & is making a real mess out of his beak. Really, really hoping he gets tired of this game ver-ry soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 In my house birds who throw things dont get them back. It only takes a few times to realize that if you toss your breakfast, you dont eat until dinner (pellets always available so they wont starve), if you toss your fav toy it isnt being put back until bedtime. I did the same thing with my kids when they were small and it had the same effect, think twice before throwing things. It also helps to use heavy crocks so they cant even lift them, never mind toss them. In some area's some people consider this abusive. When a parrot tosses, or bites they wait but a few moments for a response, most everyone responds at once, don't respond because by the time you do, a parrot no longer cares, they've already moved onto something more important to them. So, if you hold back food or toy's etc for more then a couple of minutes, they don't understand what they did wrong, this effects trust and many other issues.[abuse] Our Greys are not children or dogs etc, but a unique being like no other....Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinsmom Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) In some area's some people consider this abusive. When a parrot tosses, or bites they wait but a few moments for a response, most everyone responds at once, don't respond because by the time you do, a parrot no longer cares, they've already moved onto something more important to them. So, if you hold back food or toy's etc for more then a couple of minutes, they don't understand what they did wrong, this effects trust and many other issues.[abuse]Our Greys are not children or dogs etc, but a unique being like no other....Jay Having been owned by a grey for many years, and others, I'm pretty confident I know when I am being played, and I know their memories last longer than a few moments so if it's deliberate food dropping or toy tossing just to get me to pick it up over and over then I'm not playing, there are more constructive games to play. In my experience they are very much like kids and just as some games were encouraged with my kids and birds, some are not and this is one of them. Garth had no trust issues, neither did my macaw, because they DO move on to something else when they dont get the reaction they are looking for. There is never a shortage of other toys or food here so it isnt as though they are being deprived, its just a game Mom doesnt think is fun. I dont respond to bites in a way that elicits an exciting or stimulating response either, I just put you down and walk away. In all the years I had my birds I was beaked a few times (in the begining with each of them) but never actually bitten so I must have done ok. Edited July 12, 2012 by Darwinsmom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Sorry if I didn't explain myself better. Yes a Grey has a extremely long memory but they also at times have a short attention span when it suits them. I didn't state that any one was abusive in this instance. The rest that I stated is a proven fact and I stand by it. Plates etc can be picked up as soon as play time is over, as they can when intentional tossing is done..So, holding back on food/toys isn't necessary and if done to often can cause problems.One syndrome common to Greys is "Lack of Food" that is why we practice "Abundant Feeding". Not being bit has nothing to do with how we've done on caring for our fids, some Greys bite others don't, it's as simply as that, but we can teach a biter to stop biting.[sometimes] Everything else you say, confirms what I said. and yes you've done more than "okay". And the responses to this thread have been Greyt. Sometimes we need to re-read a post or ask a follow up question before we reply to make sure we understand what the poster exactly meant. Were here to learn and share what we've learned, not to stand alone.... Thank You Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinsmom Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Ah, gotcha! I just meant I dont encourage games of "here pick this up 1000 times". I dont worry about normal dropping or flinging either, an oops I'll pick up. Distracting them (as I did with my kids too) with things that are good helps stop them from doing the things we dont want them doing...at least thats what has always worked here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) We are their servants, their caretakers and providers...We brought them into our world, not as slave or things to give orders too, but to give them a better life.....And to Love............................................ Oh really:(?? Well, I don't think so. At least not me. My birds do things the way I want them done, not visa versa. Not to insult anyone in particular, but I think that the vast majority of women as opposed to men think along those lines. There's a big difference between wild animals and domestic animals and too many people treat their wild animals the same way they treat their domestic animals. How come these wild animals who excape never try to go back home when they're finally free? Domestic animals will try to get back because with domestic animals we are truly their their caretakers and providers. ( food, shelter). When getting these wild birds, how come many people immediately alter theitr natural abilities so they can't get away--for example wing clipping? Edited July 12, 2012 by Dave007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinsmom Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I agree with you Dave. I'm a woman but I have a very male personality and logical thought process (probably why I went to law school instead of being a social worker). I'm no one's slave. I will love you and take care of you and do nothing but the best for you, but I have rules and expectations and boundaries and everyone here follows them, kids, dogs, cats, birds and fiance. We all need guidelines and boundaries, no matter if we are human, furred or feathered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave007 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) I agree with you Dave. I'm a woman but I have a very male personality and logical thought process (probably why I went to law school instead of being a social worker). I'm no one's slave. I will love you and take care of you and do nothing but the best for you, but I have rules and expectations and boundaries and everyone here follows them, kids, dogs, cats, birds and fiance. We all need guidelines and boundaries, no matter if we are human, furred or feathered. I'm glad you understand what I'm saying. Edited July 12, 2012 by Dave007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 They certainly do amuse themselves tossing things and listening to the clanging and banging whether you respond to it or not and many tmes will swoop down and throw it around some more. Tossing food is something you will never stop a bird from doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinsmom Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 They certainly do amuse themselves tossing things and listening to the clanging and banging whether you respond to it or not and many tmes will swoop down and throw it around some more. Tossing food is something you will never stop a bird from doing. Oh THAT I expect...lol. There would be something wrong if it didnt happen! lol Thats different than playing me like a puppet though! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 We are their servants, their caretakers and providers...We brought them into our world, not as slave or things to give orders too, but to give them a better life.....And to Love............................................ Dave, Dan and to everyone. My post has turned into something other then it was meant to be. Of coarse your all right, but my heart and love I was trying to convey in my post still stands. Sorry it was misunderstood. Luv you all....Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I understood your post as the loving and caring parront as I KNOW you are Jay. My post was just a generalization of how they are. If I don't want Dayo to toss something, I take it off the counter, bolt it on/in, otherwise resistance is futile in regards him having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 No Dan, there's nothing wrong with yours or Dave's or anyone post's. There always Greyt....Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 You have done an excdellent job, and I as well as many, respect you and your flock. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmar Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 If something isn''t nailed down, it is on the floor. Sasha will constantly fly around the house looking for light objects that are sitting on a counter just to pick them up and throw them onto the floor. Ill clean the place and 2 hours later it will be just as big of a mess. I gave up a long time ago on trying to maintain a clean home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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