james_uk Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 check out of this vid from youtube im a complete novice but from what ive have read on this forum then this completly the wrong approach and will cause trust issues and is getting it to do what you want via fear rather than building trust and respect.........what you guys think? James, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstPenguin Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Well people in Arizona seem to be a little behind the times in more ways than one. Also notice that ratings and comments for the video is turned off. That is too much clipping from what I can see and I would never file a beak unless it was in the interest of the birds health. This is what I call the "old school" of thought. Which isn't that old really and still is quite prevalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_uk Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 that bird sounded like it was terrified - in that situation was calling to his owner to rescue him - which she didnt im sure that will build trust in there relationship also seems behaviors like that will create a vicious cycle where the heavy handed actions will cause behaviour issue and then these will enmd up being dealt with in the same manor........and on it will go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koekie Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 oh my god, If she would do that with my bird, I would slap her in the face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Oh jesus, that IS NOT how to build trust..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judygram Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 You can clearly see why the comments portion was disabled, you would think those comments would tell them something but some people are idiots and there is no cure except hopefully they do not procreate themeselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 James, I don't believe in toweling, but I was actually impressed by the video. The bird was NOT afraid. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Well people in Arizona seem to be a little behind the times in more ways than one. Also notice that ratings and comments for the video is turned off. That is too much clipping from what I can see and I would never file a beak unless it was in the interest of the birds health. This is what I call the "old school" of thought. Which isn't that old really and still is quite prevalent. Thank you, I'm from Arizona, I come down from the hill's once a month, I painted are grays tail with red paint to make it redder. Ya, I have a list of expectations to, Thats how I found my wife, hell went through a few of them till I found one that would obey..Ya no, you can always trade him off if he doesn't stick by your list...hehehe...By the way, what if you don't meet his expectations? of just some body to love and care for him, no questions asked....Going back out to the hils of Zona now, hope you find that cat?...sorry bird,....Cmon wife, I hungry, move it, You read my list before ya married me... Thanks Jayd http://www.greyforums.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=213&catid=5&Itemid=4 Edited July 10, 2012 by Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray P Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Hay Jay; I have a copy of the Parrot`s Bill of Right`s hanging on my wall and every now and than I go back and reread it as a reminder of my responsibility that I have taken. It brings me back to earth and I always take anouther look at my birds and think how lucky I am to have them to share my life. Good link. Edited July 10, 2012 by Ray P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I watched the video twice. i watched the bird interacting. Watch the eyes. He was never threatened. He accepted a learning opportunity. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I watched the video twice. i watched the bird interacting. Watch the eyes. He was never threatened. He accepted a learning opportunity. Nancy The Grey was scared to death to the point of hyperventilating !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray P Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 The big thing I did not like about the video was the wing clipping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katana600 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Wow. Everyone has to use whatever works best for their family to bring home a new parrot. I have done it three times and didn't have to resort to toweling or wing clipping. Those of you who do agree that this video is the way to go will succeed or fail in your own way. It depends on the parrot's disposition, age, etc. whether this will create a cooperative companion or a subservient pet that steps up when you tell it to but might create stress issues later. The part that I objected to in the video was the little sing song condescending and mocking of a different technique which is what I used with success. That is letting the parrot come out, get acclimated and cooperate because he wants to trust the humans in his life. It might take about ten years to figure out if what I am doing is working, but it is worth it to me to have that relationship with a rehomed bird that already has been damaged by several caretakers who thought that the strong arm approach would be the quickest and easiest way to "tame" a grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray P Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well put Dee !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLB Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 We can compare notes on this approach as I have adopted the same for Shadow. Hoping it won't take 10 years for her to trust me, but I will be waiting. I open her door and she comes out when she is ready. No stress for either of us this way! The condescending tone of the "trainer" with regard to actually respecting your bird was offensive to me also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffNOK Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Yeah, I agree on the two main points mentioned The wing clip seemed very extreme and the mocking of someone letting their fids make choices of whether to come out or not seemed condescending. When I first got Gracie she occassionaly resisted coming out of her cage and stepping up from inside the cage. I didn't push it. Now she trusts me so much that it isn't an issue. I don't have enough experience to criticize technique, but its hard to understand why we would need to force the issue. When trust is built, I have to believe that they willingly come to us--most of the time anyway. I hated seeing that bird so scared at the beginning. I have no doubt that the owner just wants what is best for her fid. It did seem to go okay toward the end. I'm glad for that. When Gracie chooses to trust me in spite of everything, I feel such a warmth and peace and connection. If I felt she was coerced--it would rob me of that sense of mutuality in our relationship. Just like with people, I don't want a slave. Maybe I view my fid too much like a human, but so far it is working, so i am not going to try to fix something that isn't broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasota Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 That very video made the rounds at a parrot training workshop I attended. You may be able to "train" a bird by forcing it to bend to your will, but you won't be building a trusting bond with it. It's the same approach as using a "Alpha Roll" on a dog to get it to respect you. The truth is, the "learning" in the video is an animal who accepts defeat. It's called "learned helplessness." The bird realizes that no matter what it does, it will be overpowered. So it gives in. My boss could chain me to my desk and deprive me of a lunch hour until I finish a task for him. It might eventually give in and do it, but I sure as hell won't love and respect him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Okay all! Lets agree, or disagree! Lets be respectful. I watched the video twice, I never felt the bird was threatened! I have trained my birds from " being trimmed", to being fully flighted! Depending on their age of development. A decade later, they all fly, don't bite or chew! Kiki is hanging with me right now, our Amazon!She steps up, steps down. She is going to get her beak and nails trimmed next week. She doesn't care for them! Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Okay all! Lets agree, or disagree! Lets be respectful. I watched the video twice, I never felt the bird was threatened! I have trained my birds from " being trimmed", to being fully flighted! Depending on their age of development. A decade later, they all fly, don't bite or chew! Kiki is hanging with me right now, our Amazon!She steps up, steps down. She is going to get her beak and nails trimmed next week. She doesn't care for them! Nancy Disagree....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasota Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Okay all! Lets agree, or disagree! A dog trainer once told me - the only thing two trainers will agree on is that the other one is doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray P Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Some times different birds and different trainers need different techniques to reach their goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) In my opinion, this store lady had this grey terrified by her actions. The grey displays that every time she interacted with it using force. Of course, that store person does not care about force, she was demonstrating how to extract your bird when it is hurt and freaked out. In an instance such as this grey owner trying to help her grey while hurt and bleeding, you must of course forget feelings, get your grey out of the cage the to a vet asap regardless of any possible slight loss of trust temporarily. Using dominance may accomplish ones goal, but it does not build trust or a good relationship ship with your bird. I view this one video as the store owner showing how to deal with a 911 and nothing more. It was not about trust building and how to properly interact with your grey or other parrot. The training was for the person, not the bird. In that sense, the goal was accomplished. The grey owner probably went home and tried this technique a few times and after her having blood let a few times decided that was not how she wanted to interact with her grey for the remaining decades they will spend together. Edited July 30, 2012 by danmcq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasota Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 The training was for the person, not the bird. In that sense, the goal was accomplished. The grey owner probably went home and tried this technique a few times and after her having blood let a few times decided that was not how she wanted to interact with her grey for the remaining decades they will spend together. You make an excellent point here. AND it has everyone talking about using more positive training methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooman Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I agree with most of you especially the way she did the wing clipping. maybe just me but she didn't look for blood feathers or took her time. as for the toweling I'll admit every time I take mine to the vet it looks like a toned down version of that. they give him breaks during his exam but he's definitely winded with fighting. if that's wrong we'll the 3 avian vets he's seen since I've had him are wrong. teaching him to step up is crucial to any relationship with your bird. the cage part does bother me seeing as its a random cage not his. that part should've been done at home. but it's not my bird and didn't seem like they harmed him physically but set back bonding thats for sure. and everyone has their opinions on how to raise their kids and animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katana600 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Our vet and techs have toweled our parrots and I believe that is a necessity and they have become greatly skilled at doing it quickly, safely, efficiently and for good reason. They have also taught me the technique in the event we have to administer meds or if we have an urgent need to handle an uncooperative bird. If you have already built trust with your own parrot and have learned about the personality traits and how to handle them, in my own experience, the toweling and vet visit is a small setback and takes a little while to overcome. It is well worth it for the benefit of keeping them healthy and the vet is a wealth of information and support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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