CLB Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I am afraid in my attempt to avoid the bite, I have allowed Shadow too much freedom of choice. She has been with us for 10 months now. She has always been willing to step up when on the floor or on a perch outside her cage. I had not attempted "step up" from inside her cage as she will often bite me. So, I have allowed her to come out of her cage on her own. This has not been a problem until recently. Now, she is not wanting to step up at all. I feel like we have taken a step back in her progress and perhaps I need to start requiring a step up in order to receive the benefit of out of cage time. Once she is out of her cage, she no longer has a need for me....a she is able to do what she wants. Thoughts on how to best correct my mistakes and encourage her to want to step up would be greatly appreciated. I have spent the last 2 days working some tough love...so far no success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 hi, Maggie here...you have not made any mistakes. This is normal and not uncommon. It doesn't matter where you ask them to step up. It can be in or out of the cage, on the fridge, on the couch, on the back of a chair, on your arm....your bird's cage is her security blanket right now, it is her safe haven. Anything on or in her cage is hers and she feels territorial and this is normal. If she will come in or go out of her cage on her own, this is great. I can sense you are stressed out about the step-up issue. If I can sense it in your post, she can definitely sense it since she is next to you. Tough love won't work, it will just break down the trust that you have developed. It will confuse her, not knowing what to expect. Try just going about your normal daily routine and when you walk by her every now and then stick your finger out and say, "Step up". If she doesn't step up, just ignore it and keep up with your routine. Eventually, she will see that it is just another part of her routine and no big deal. They learn at their own pace and when they want to. You have to build normalcy to show them that they are part of your flock now. She will expect things of you and you will expect things of her...remember, a Grey always wins...LOL...as Spock would say, "It's only logical." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLB Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Thanks Maggie.... I have been keeping her in all day and asking for a step up randomly. When she doesn't comply, I simply walk away and tell her maybe next time. Unfortunately this has kept her caged all day. Should I let her come out of her cage on her own and go back to our old routine just adding the random step up requests? I do not want to stress about this. I know she is confused and things around here have been crazy for the last few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Thanks Maggie.... I have been keeping her in all day and asking for a step up randomly. When she doesn't comply, I simply walk away and tell her maybe next time. Unfortunately this has kept her caged all day. Should I let her come out of her cage on her own and go back to our old routine just adding the random step up requests? I do not want to stress about this. I know she is confused and things around here have been crazy for the last few weeks. Yes, go back to normal routine...just go on like nothing ever happened. Just go by her every once in a while and stick your finger out and say "step up". Let her know that everything is back to normal. Stress will definitely add to her refusal to step up or do anything that you want her to do. Unlike most parrots, a Grey comprehends and thinks situations through. For example: Jay has related this story many times... if an Amazon falls trying to reach something, they just pretend like it was supposed to happen and go about their business. A Grey will look over the situation and ask itself how bad do I need/want this and weigh all factors of what could possibly happen and then decide whether to do it or not. So, when you time out or confine a Grey for any length of time, they will sit in there and wonder what they did wrong and in turn, this could cause loss of trust issues, unusual behavior, and could lead to irrational fears. A Grey is a thinking creature. Positive reinforcement is a better way to train or correct than punishment. Go about your life normally and include your Grey into it...expect no more than your baby is willing to give at the moment and remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. Maggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLB Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 This makes perfect sense! I am happy to hear that things were fine all along. Shadow will be even happier to have everything back to normal. Thank you again for your encouragement and support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So glad you and Shadow will be happier.....good things come to those who are patient....LOL....Thanks, Maggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Great ideas from all! Birds will trust with stepup from their cage when they are ready and trusting! Go back to what you were doing since the trust was being established. I'm kind of surprised though, when all my birds flew off their cage, landed somewhere " unknown" to them, they immediately would stepup. I'm no expert! Any ideas? What will your bird do, if fly's away, and lands on the floor and you try stepup? Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLB Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 LOL....she is VERY comfortable here and does not fear the floor or the little dogs that she encounters there. When asked to step up she will bow her head....when pressured for the step up she will bite, clearly announcing that she is conforming but doesn't like it! Lately she has not been conforming at all. I believe that my observation of her unwillingness to step up came at a time when we are all rather stressed out by a huge event held at our home a couple nights ago. Too much time spent preparing for this event and too little time pampering Shadow. Things are returning to normal with life, so I have every reason to believe that normalcy will return for all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 LOL....she is VERY comfortable here and does not fear the floor or the little dogs that she encounters there. When asked to step up she will bow her head....when pressured for the step up she will bite, clearly announcing that she is conforming but doesn't like it! Lately she has not been conforming at all. I believe that my observation of her unwillingness to step up came at a time when we are all rather stressed out by a huge event held at our home a couple nights ago. Too much time spent preparing for this event and too little time pampering Shadow. Things are returning to normal with life, so I have every reason to believe that normalcy will return for all! It sounds like she might be punishing you (or picking up on your stress). Some extra one on one time couldn't hurt. Is there something special that you and her do together that she really enjoys? Maybe playing with toys or a sing/dance time? Something where she really wants to be with you. If nothing else put something funny on tv. Your laughter can help you both unwind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acappella Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Well...........It took four years for Dorian to step up from inside his cage. They can be stubborn willful little creatures, but that's one of the things we love about them. First he stepped up from a perch on the outside of his cage, and we worked with that for a couple of years. I never ever stopped asking for step ups from inside the cage. I'd offer, he'd refuse, and I'd just shrug and tell him 'ok maybe later' and walk away. Eventually his desire to be with me overcame his fear of leaving his cage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I have to be honest.( I know I will hear about it!) Thats okay. I have waited at the most, a month, before I expected my bird to start working on stepup and down. Very " minimal", practicing. Trust was not there. As trust was established, so did my expectations of my birds. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katana600 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I think you are spot on that your event gave Shadow and the family a different routine. Some plain ole bribery might hasten the process of getting back on track with her. Gilbert goes through withdrawal sometimes, like right now because I was gone overnight this weekend. His achilles heel is to approach him late at night when everyone else has gone to bed. He will sometimes be the most receptive to a little bribery. A second almond, pine nuts or pistachios seem to entice him over to me where he will sit next to me on the back of the sofa for a few minutes and then he will be the one to offer me his lifted foot for a step up. I am sure it is because he gets a treat when I put him to bed. As you settle down from the excitement in your life, I am betting that Shadow will just naturally come back around for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLB Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Thank you everyone! We have returned to our normal routine, which includes my more realistic expectations. Shadow has been coming out of her cage as usual and I have begun asking for random step ups with no expectation. I am so appreciative of this forum and the opportunity to read everyone's stories. It helps to be reminded that each relationship is different and it's OK! I am perfectly hapy with my relationship with Shadow as long as she is happy. Shadow has fit right into our lifestyle and I do forget that it has only been 10 months. We have a whole lifetime ahead of us....and soon we will be joined by Lola too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLB Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 I wanted to share about our return to "normal". Tonight like any other, I let Shadow out of her cage while I made supper. When all was done, I asked for a step up so that she could join us in the family room for movie time and she declined as expected. I told her how much I wanted her to be with us but that I was going in the other room to watch a movie. She can see through to our family room from her cage-side perch so I left her there. Next thing we knew she had taken flight and was actually flying INTO the family room! (normally when she is in there she flies OUT back to her cage). Funny thing is she actually landed on my son's back...he never saw it coming. lol And here we are..... Shadow on the back of my chair watching movies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 CLB... excellent! A very important moment, that of course, you can't make a fuss about! Go into another room and do a victory dance. You have earned it! Return to the movie room, act normal. Ignore Shadow. Of course, he should be there for the movie. Its normal! Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chezron Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but it works for me. My rule is no one comes out of their cages unless they step up. Meaning that, I become their only avenue to freedom. Now granted, sometimes it has to be step up on a stick, (for the Amazon), but it is still enforced. It does sound that your bird is reacting to your stress level, as do mine at times. Relax it will all be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 chezron... you are doing just fine! Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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