Feathers?

[ariisamis]

Maybe I am just panicking, but I came home the other day to find 4 large grey feathers in the bottom of Whitney's cage. Could this be plucking? Whitney has only been with us for two weeks, she seems to be adjusting fine or so I thought. I have misted her 3 times and put her harness on 3 times. She hates the misting and flaps all over the place. Also the first week of being home she fell to the bottom of the cage several times. I now a blanket covering the bottom. I noticed after the showers, harness and falls her feathers look out of place. I hope she is not plucking. What age do the have their first molt? Whitney is almost 5 months. Please tell me I am just panicking. That was the only day I saw feathers and that was three days ago.

[Dave007]

Maybe I am just panicking, but I came home the other day to find 4 large grey feathers in the bottom of Whitney's cage. Could this be plucking? Whitney has only been with us for two weeks, she seems to be adjusting fine or so I thought. I have misted her 3 times and put her harness on 3 times. She hates the misting and flaps all over the place. Also the first week of being home she fell to the bottom of the cage several times. I now a blanket covering the bottom. I noticed after the showers, harness and falls her feathers look out of place. I hope she is not plucking. What age do the have their first molt? Whitney is almost 5 months. Please tell me I am just panicking. That was the only day I saw feathers and that was three days ago.

 

he first molt happens between 8 ms to 11 mts old. What you saw wasn't the feathers that molt out semi or yearly.

Thhose feathers were probably dead feathers ready to fall out. If there was a problem they would still be falling out. Morer than likely they were covert feathers.

If she thashes around when misting her, take her somewhere where her feathers won't flap into the cage bars. Accidental breaking or cracking of feathers can happen there. At that age she needs very little bathing. Her permanent feathers aren't in yet. That won't happen until the first molt occurs. If she thrashes about in the shower, put her on the floor of the tub.

 

*****Please tell me I am just panicking.******

 

Well, if that's what you really want------You're just panicking.

Now that you've gotten your wish, feel better?

Edited May 12, 2012 by Dave007

[ariisamis]

Thank you so much for responding so fast. I feel much better, lol. I like to think that I am not that bad to live with in just two weeks. At this age how often should I bath her?

[Dave007]

Thank you so much for responding so fast. I feel much better, lol. I like to think that I am not that bad to live with in just two weeks. At this age how often should I bath her?

 

right now, once evey 3 weeks

after 7,8,9 mts, once every 1 to 2 weeks.

 

You can't always believe that greys need as many baths as is said. Bathing keeps them clean but frequent bathing can cause skin to lose moisturizing oils. That's one of the reasons greys get dry skin so much. The outer feathers get the most dirty and that's because of the dander that covers the feathers.

 

Expect your bird to despise baths. many greys do.

[ariisamis]

Whitney pulled another feather and it looks as if two more will get pulled out. Could she have broken 5 or 6 feathers at once. I am posting a picture of the wing that the feathers are coming from. Dave you said it may me covert feathers, by the picture would do you think? Thanks

[Dave007]

Your bird has no wings, A bird with no wings frequently drops covert feathers. The chart below will give you an idea of where the various covert feathers are located. There's many reasons why they're falling out or beingpulled out. Wings that are clipped will die more rapidly than unclipped feathers. The internals of those feathers dry out and fall off to make room for a new set. They don't come in at the same time. The covert feathers are supposed to sit on the wing feathers but your bird has no wings. Use the chart below to see your where the feathers are. Clipping can cause different problems because there's all sorts of methods of clipping -----most of which are wrong.

Let your bird grow in it's feathers.

[ariisamis]

Yes I had already deceided not to clip her, however the breeder did it before I put my deposit down. Seems like the stores and the breeders in my area that I contacted believes in clipping. Anyway thank you again for your help. I didn't think to post the picture in the original post, so I thought I would post one. I contacted the breeder and she told me that she would be able to take a look at Whitney later this week, but after reading the last post I think I will pass on that visit. I really don't want to explain why I don't want my baby's wings clipped anymore. Thank you for the chart, if I am understanding correctly she clipped off all her primaries? I thought when birds were clipped it was the first few wing feathers but I now know there are different methods. Guess I won't have to worry about a bad clip anymore.

[judygram]

Poor dear and it will be quite a while before she gets a full set of wing feathers.

[ariisamis]

I'm so upset about this that I went to see the breeder today to ask what the hell happen to my baby's wing, I'm sorry I 'm mad about this. She told me the wing clip was bad (just what Dave already told me, Whitney has no wing). She knew this and didn't say anything when I picked her up. Anyway I got a better look under her wing today, I am thinking she will lose all the feathers on that side. I know that she is trying to get rid of these feathers, but I hope that this is not going to cause her to become a plucker. One thing is for sure, when Whitney get her wings, she will not be getting clipped.

[ariisamis]

Hello All, some of you may remember my concern with my babies feathers, well let me just say I knew something was wrong. The breeder kept telling me it was a bad clip. If you read what Dave wrote to me on 5/15 that my bird does not have a wing, you will know Dave was correct. Thank you Dave! The breeder and I went to the breeders vet today and guess what her vet said, my CAG is missing a bone in that wing and will never fly, as well as she will not be able to balance herself until she molts a d grows the feathers back below the missing bone. My concern is she falls and falls hard that she is bruising herself and breaking more feathers. I am so afraid she is going to really hurt herself. The vet (by the way is an avian vet) said she was born like this or it could have happened in the nesting box. She also said that birds who are in zoos wings are pinioned so they will never fly, and that is how my CAG looks. Anyway the breeder has given me a choice to keep Whitney or first pick at her next CAGs. I know that Whitney is still a great pet, but I'm concerned that she will have an increased risk for injury . I understand that a clipped birdies no different regarding flight however Whitney also has no balance. Am I bad if I return her for a new baby? Please advise. Thanks

[Jayd]

I'm sorry this has happened to you. No one can make this decision for you, it's a choice you must make. Here's some thoughts, This baby can and will live a good and healthy flightless life , better balance will happen with more time on this earth. This will be no different than a parrot whose wings were clipped before fledgling, we have 2 rescues who this was done too, they'll never fly but both are living a very happy and productive life.

There will be things you'll need to do, pad around the cage when the baby is out, Position the cage where the baby can step out onto the playpen or the back of a chair, a wing less bird still desires freedom. If you keep this baby, myself and many members will be more than happy to help you down your road. As far as love goes, a wingless grey has just as much love to give as one with wings.

Bless You

Edited September 14, 2012 by Jayd

[Timbersmom]

^^Amen! I'm so sorry to hear about Whitney's condition. On the other hand, you have had your baby about four months if I'm correct? I have had my rehomed TAG for a little over 3 months and I am so attached to him that I couldn't part with him if he had no wings and no balance. I can understand how disappointed and upset you are, and as Jayd said it is a decision that must be yours alone.

[katana600]

I absolutely do not think you are bad for having these thoughts. We put our heart and souls into bringing these parrots into our lives for the decades we expect them to be with us. You've had the inkling something was wrong and it is beyond me that the breeder didn't recognize it, the original vet didn't give you forewarning and a groomer clipped her wings poorly. You have probably been worrying and second guessing yourself and trying to be calm. My first thought is this... the breeder should offer you another bird. This may not be genetic, but I would talk with your avian vet about that because if it is, you may get your hopes up and have it happen again. Next, if they are able to offer you another grey, is there any chance you could keep Whitney and a new baby? Just a thought. You and Whitney have probably already bonded and you probably are in no hurry to return her just wondering about long term health implications and her safety. It is all still kind of new and a lot to cope with at the moment. You will have time to sort things through and come up with what is best.

[Sarasota]

The posts above reflect my thoughts too. The bird can live a perfectly happy, healthy life this way. I've seen birds missing toes, entire feet, one wing, partial beaks. Ask yourself what your expectations of parrot ownership are, what you are prepared (and are able) to give, and what is best for the bird.

 

On a personal level: From someone who has a "damaged" bird...it's one of the most fulfilling experiences I've had with an animal. Wouldn't trade Burt in for a "perfect" bird.

[Dave007]

I absolutely do not think you are bad for having these thoughts. We put our heart and souls into bringing these parrots into our lives for the decades we expect them to be with us. You've had the inkling something was wrong and it is beyond me that the breeder didn't recognize it, the original vet didn't give you forewarning and a groomer clipped her wings poorly. You have probably been worrying and second guessing yourself and trying to be calm. My first thought is this... the breeder should offer you another bird. This may not be genetic, but I would talk with your avian vet about that because if it is, you may get your hopes up and have it happen again. Next, if they are able to offer you another grey, is there any chance you could keep Whitney and a new baby? Just a thought. You and Whitney have probably already bonded and you probably are in no hurry to return her just wondering about long term health implications and her safety. It is all still kind of new and a lot to cope with at the moment. You will have time to sort things through and come up with what is best.

 

A bird who's been born with a wing missing or a wing that refuses to grow feathers has nothing to do with genetics. It's the same thing when a bird is born and has a splayed foot--nothing to do with genetics.

[katana600]

Thanks Dave, that helps a lot.

[Jayd]

A bird who's been born with a wing missing or a wing that refuses to grow feathers has nothing to do with genetics. It's the same thing when a bird is born and has a splayed foot--nothing to do with genetics.

Dave, I'm sorry I don't completely understand you post. a splayed foot is usually the cause of a incident occurring during the time spent in the nest, [please correct me if I err] A missing or underdeveloped bone is due to genetic of the animal. Example: I have Diabetes, my 1st son did, my 2nd son didn't, other of my family members followed the same course. Or errors in the genes...Is this a genetic. Could you please pass on more info to us.. Thanks Jayd

[Dave007]

Dave, I'm sorry I don't completely understand you post. a splayed foot is usually the cause of a incident occurring during the time spent in the nest, [please correct me if I err] A missing or underdeveloped bone is due to genetic of the animal. Example: I have Diabetes, my 1st son did, my 2nd son didn't, other of my family members followed the same course. Or errors in the genes...Is this a genetic. Could you please pass on more info to us.. Thanks Jayd

 

Comparing what happens in an egg and having diabetes is like comparing apples and oranges. Some say that biabetes is genetic but diabetes can also occur when a person becomes overweight. Many MDs also concur that it's also a blood disease. What type you have and what causes it and what classification is comes under is only something you or any other person can find out about from their MD. I'm not gonna get into diabetes. That's a health issue can happen with people from many things.

 

What i will get into is deformaties that occur in the egg. A splayed foot can happen in the egg. Actually, it does happen in the egg. Having one wing happens in the egg. They're both malformations. Having a splayed foot is a bone which has grown with a deformity which is in the egg and can happen when eggs are placed in wrong areas by the parents or the egg isn't incubated properly. It's accidental and that bone deformity can be corected if treated quickly----VERY QUICKLY and that doesn't happen very often. Deformed body parts concerning birds happens all the time with all types of birds. Indoor and outdoor birds go through this all the time.

 

People who have sick breeders wouldn't be breeding those birds because many constantly cause health issues would cause those people a lot of money be it exchanges, refunds, guarantees.

 

Compare diabetes to schizophrenia. Not all the offspring will have that problem but some in the family will.

 

Anyway, this isn't the place to be discussing your human health issues such as your diabetes.

[danmcq]

Thanks for explaining that Dave. Your breeding experience and background is a very valuable source of factual information for us, due to the decades you have spent breeding and raising so many clutches of greys.

[Jayd]

Comparing what happens in an egg and having diabetes is like comparing apples and oranges. Some say that biabetes is genetic but diabetes can also occur when a person becomes overweight. Many MDs also concur that it's also a blood disease. What type you have and what causes it and what classification is comes under is only something you or any other person can find out about from their MD. I'm not gonna get into diabetes. That's a health issue can happen with people from many things.

 

What i will get into is deformaties that occur in the egg. A splayed foot can happen in the egg. Actually, it does happen in the egg. Having one wing happens in the egg. They're both malformations. Having a splayed foot is a bone which has grown with a deformity which is in the egg and can happen when eggs are placed in wrong areas by the parents or the egg isn't incubated properly. It's accidental and that bone deformity can be corected if treated quickly----VERY QUICKLY and that doesn't happen very often. Deformed body parts concerning birds happens all the time with all types of birds. Indoor and outdoor birds go through this all the time.

 

People who have sick breeders wouldn't be breeding those birds because many constantly cause health issues would cause those people a lot of money be it exchanges, refunds, guarantees.

 

Compare diabetes to schizophrenia. Not all the offspring will have that problem but some in the family will.

 

Anyway, this isn't the place to be discussing your human health issues such as your diabetes.

Thank you Dave, sorry you misunderstood the way I used Diabetes as a example of genetics, there's many other medical conditions I could have chosen. Thank you for you analogy of Diabetes, some of which is correct some of which isn't. I don't know where you came up with Quote:Anyway, this isn't the place to be discussing your human health issues such as your diabetes. unquote. I'm sorry you felt you had to make this a personal issue...Now to the Question, "A missing or underdeveloped bone is due to genetic of the animal."

A missing wing bone, or eye etc is a genetic defect. That's all I asked. Jayd

 

 

Edited September 14, 2012 by Jayd
remove wrong http:

[Greywings]

The pinioning of wings is not done very often any more, I have worked in Zoo's and the last time I saw pinioned birds was with waterfowl rather than Parrots.

[danmcq]

Jay - Dave did answer your questions, it is not genetics, it is the egg during incubation, I quote dave "A splayed foot can happen in the egg. Actually, it does happen in the egg. Having one wing happens in the egg. They're both malformations. Having a splayed foot is a bone which has grown with a deformity which is in the egg and can happen when eggs are placed in wrong areas by the parents or the egg isn't incubated properly."

 

I have no clue why you are now providing human genetic defect links? Dave answered in regards birds and the cause of foot splay's and wing deformities.

 

Maybe I am missing something in what you are asking?

[Jayd]

Jay - Dave did answer your questions, it is not genetics, it is the egg during incubation, I quote dave "A splayed foot can happen in the egg. Actually, it does happen in the egg. Having one wing happens in the egg. They're both malformations. Having a splayed foot is a bone which has grown with a deformity which is in the egg and can happen when eggs are placed in wrong areas by the parents or the egg isn't incubated properly."

 

I have no clue why you are now providing human genetic defect links? Dave answered in regards birds and the cause of foot splay's and wing deformities.

 

Maybe I am missing something in what you are asking?

 

Thank you Dan. My question is about a bone that didn't form, not a deformity or foot splay. I stated I could be wrong at the start about the foot splay and asked Dave to correct me. A totally missing bone or eye is not a deformity, if they're not there, there's nothing to deform. By not forming, it is a genetic issue. There's much info on the net about human genetic birth defects, few on birds. My apologies for the human links, I have removed them. I'm sorry, but I stick by my opinion concerning genetic issues concerning some birth defects because there's too much on the net in agreement. Thanks Jayd

[danmcq]

Thanks Jay. Since Dave has been breeding greys for decades, I lean more to his statements on the missing wing bones and the cause. I do know from experience at my breeders over the years, that incorrect incubation can cause many deformities and missing parts in the birds as they are forming. Thus the reason some breeders remove the eggs and place them in incubators and control the process completely. Not hat I am an advocate of all doing this, but my breeders did this do to poor parenting of a few pairs of their, greys, conures and macaws. Some are great parents, some are not.

[Jayd]

Thanks Jay. Since Dave has been breeding greys for decades, I lean more to his statements on the missing wing bones and the cause. I do know from experience at my breeders over the years, that incorrect incubation can cause many deformities and missing parts in the birds as they are forming. Thus the reason some breeders remove the eggs and place them in incubators and control the process completely. Not hat I am an advocate of all doing this, but my breeders did this do to poor parenting of a few pairs of their, greys, conures and macaws. Some are great parents, some are not.

 

Thank you Dan and Dave, I agree Dave has far more experience than I do at breeding Greys, at the same token I have considerable experience at breeding and raising many assorted species of parrots. I also have worked with many vets and avian specialist in my decades with parrots. It's okay for us to disagree, but there's many experts on this forum. Bless Dave and you for supporting him, and him you. I've always backed down from standing up for myself out of respect for Dave and you, but times have changed, the members have a right to question those that disagree with them. My opinions stand...I respect yours, you don't have to respect mine. To sum this up, I say genetics plays a big roll, You and Dave say it doesn't...

Sincerely Jayd