Chenliu85 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Okay so it seems like our four month old Cag attacks our pug puppy when she comes out. I thought it was playing when she dive bombs the dogs. But today she flew and landed on the pug's head and viciously biting the crap out of the dog!! Our dog yelped and whimpered so I grabbed the dog and the bird flew away! Why is she doing this at such a young age? The pug is the most active of our dogs and she does not do this to the others. What should I do? I've kept them separate for the most part. Is there any way of changing her animosity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 You must respond immediately and say NO! Let your bird know how displeased you are with the behavior. I was always fortunate to have Max my senior Lhasa around, way before birds. He also had been around guinea pigs, you name it! So, when birds started coming around, noone messed with him. He tolerated everyone, but they all knew immediately... don't " test" me, you will lose! Animals know quickly the pecking order. When Ollie and Zoey came around as pups, Max taught them to never attack birds. He taught them everything he knew. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest XxExoticPsychExX Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Yea you're going to have to keep an eye on them at all times when they're in close proximity to eachother. Definitely make it known to your grey that biting the dog is wrong, but also make sure the other dogs aren't doing anything to your grey that might be provoking the behavior. Is your parrot biting the pug when it gets close to its toys, food, favorite person, area, etc.? Try looking to see if you notice a pattern and alter the settings appropriately (i.e. Block off the parrot's play area from the dog). It's not a for sure thing that your grey will ever get along with your pug so be prepared! Our dog Joey is afraid of my grey, Solomon. Because of this, Solomon is more likely to bully Joey. My cat Jaime can be in the same room with Solomon without any problems. However, our younger cat Skittles is more likely to try to bully Solomon, who might or might not retaliate. No matter what, what I say goes! I can summon Skittles out of the area in 2 seconds flat and remove Solomon if he's starting to go after Joey. And this has been our social environment after about a year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katana600 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Oh my goodness, poor puppy. I have read about the flock mentality of parrots trying to drive away intruders and to "test" other flock members. Our first small parrot did this with our daughter when she was coming home during college breaks. It will take time and vigilance to keep her from hurting your puppy and he will grow up wary of her but could retaliate at some point. I'm sure others here have had similar issues and will have better advice (than me) for teaching them to get coexist. I just realized how lucky we are that our dogs are low to the ground and our parrot stays up high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chenliu85 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I'm not so sure Tezy is smart when it comes to self defense. She doesn't understand that other animals are bigger. Maybe she is slow on finding the pecking order. The bird is fearless! I read that greys were shy and scared easy. This is not Tezy. She likes to fly on guests and dive bomb our big dog. She doesn't seem to like dogs who runs around her. I think she is very friendly with the cats bc they don't ever come too close or jump near her. Now I don't let the pug and bird out at the same time. Don't you think 4 months is too young to show aggression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munch Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 We had this problem. Took was attacking our dog, Mr G. Took loved the dog but would land on his face, on his eyes, and would then bite him even though it was all out of love (Mr G was the first thing she learned to say and since then she says "I love G and Took loves G, too") Anyway, the dog was terrified. And this one of the many problems we were having her at age 1 and half. Since then we clipped her wings and things have been amazing. The first 3 days she was depressed, and yes, i was so upset over what we did, but then she started singing again and now is back to her old self. She chats, sings, laughs, is lovable, and is so enjoyable to have around again without attacking the dog or people, without ripping up the couch and armchairs. She can fly enough when she must but otehrwise she plays on her cage and gym, she'll call us and flap her wings when she wants to sit on the computer monitor or go soemwhere else. She'll say "come here" or "step up" when she wants to sit on us. She hardly ever bites anymore. Its wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Do not clip your birds wings to stop an issue such as this. It is not the answer. The answer is teaching your grey that attacking other animals is not acceptable. If it cannot be stopped, they must be kept separated from each other because I guarantee you the grey will one day lose the battle and be dead in the blink of an eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Dan said it best! I couldn't agree more, and I speak from experience. My amazon who is the youngest member of my flock, she is 2 yrs old, attacks both my bichons, and both my cat and my daughters cat. She is free flighted and will always remain so. She will run over to them, and bite them or walk on them, they are scared of her because of this so I have to watch her when she is out, but that is nothing new, cause an amazon is no different than having a 2 year old child, you have to keep an eye on her all the time. She is out of her cage for a good part of the day, but always where I can see her, and if she flies off and I can't hear her, I call for her or look to see what trouble she is into. I also keep watch over my dogs and cats as their Instinct will kick in one day and they will do what nature intended....attack back. She also loves to walk around the floorwhile her and one of my dogs try to play together, of course I have to put a stop to it as much fun as they are having...... Vigilance is the key here, NOT wing clipping. I feel that is like cutting off ones legs, just MY OPINION! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvparrots Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Sounds like your grey is jealous of the attention your pug is getting. The solution is not clipping but getting your grey to understand that attacking the pug is not acceptable. i too have a pug and 3 parrots. My pug has a pillow under the coffee table and one under a chair and in a corner of the office. Ana Grey, the aggressive grey in my flock, does not bother my Lily now. It took persistence and vigilance to get Ana Grey to leave Lily alone but there is co-existence now and we are all happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munch Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Despite the opposition from those who know best, I remain steadfast that the decision we made for Took was the correct one. Your grey is still very young and just starting, he/she may be testing you. Absolutely try everything else before clipping. We did. But sometimes it doesn't work. And you have to ask yourself if you will allow your grey to continue to chase after other to bite or not. We said that was unacceptable. Its not so we cna leave her alone while she's out and we can do whatever-- in fact, we never leave her alone. If we go to another floor, she comes with and when we leave, she goes back into her cage. The advice here is helpful but soemtimes it doesn't work. I've felt pressured to make certain choices but in the end, we did what is best for our flock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Despite the opposition from those who know best, I remain steadfast that the decision we made for Took was the correct one. Your grey is still very young and just starting, he/she may be testing you. Absolutely try everything else before clipping. We did. But sometimes it doesn't work. And you have to ask yourself if you will allow your grey to continue to chase after other to bite or not. We said that was unacceptable. Its not so we cna leave her alone while she's out and we can do whatever-- in fact, we never leave her alone. If we go to another floor, she comes with and when we leave, she goes back into her cage. The advice here is helpful but soemtimes it doesn't work. I've felt pressured to make certain choices but in the end, we did what is best for our flock. To start with Munch, you didn't do what is best for your flock, you did what was best for you. How will clipping help? The Grey get's on the floor gets bitten by the dog and dies, problem solved, clip em..Pay back is a bitch, your puppy is growing, what then? The problem is training, get a book, ask the forum even if Munch doesn't agree with these experts...Ist lesson, When any parrot is out, no other animal should be roaming free until every one is trained...To mame is never the answer...Jay This is my opinion backed by scientific study, not that of other members....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Now remember guys... we all have different opinions, and need to respect, those opinions. I believe in a baby learning how to fly. Develop chest muscles. Once they can, I believe a baby should be trimmed, to " still fly quite well", but not to the point they go everywhere. ( very important to find a trimmer, that can do this!) No bird, should be allowed( my opinion), to attack a pups head.( that would have been an immediate timeout!) Everyone has different beliefs. Noone is right or wrong. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Now remember guys... we all have different opinions, and need to respect, those opinions. I believe in a baby learning how to fly. Develop chest muscles. Once they can, I believe a baby should be trimmed, to " still fly quite well", but not to the point they go everywhere. ( very important to find a trimmer, that can do this!) No bird, should be allowed( my opinion), to attack a pups head.( that would have been an immediate timeout!) Everyone has different beliefs. Noone is right or wrong. Nancy Yes Nancy, we all have different opinions, and we all back them in different ways. Proper training of the handler as I stated, out rules what one's personal opinion is. Yes some are right, others aren't! Some of us have companions, others have a family pet. We can respect in the point to agree to disagree. You have to respect the right for another to give a opinion, not necessarily the opinion itself! this Only my opinion..Research!!!!! Jay, Sorry everybody......... Edited May 11, 2012 by Jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I agree with Jay that you have to teach family rules To ALL you pets and kids. I have a bichon puppy that is nippy in a playful way, that Nilah my amazon likes to play with. But I watch him, and train him not to nip. You don't pull your dogs teeth out so that he doesn't nip at your kids, guests, other pets do you? NO, you teach and train him NOT to nip! The same goes for a cat, do you declaw them because they scratch your or your kids and pets, NO! That is like cutting off their fingers, do the research, declawing is exactly the same. I feel very strongly myself, that clipping a birds wings is the same as cutting off a humans legs. They were meant to fly, not sit and perch wherever we decide they should be. TRAIN and WATCH your pets. They may or may not learn, but watching their behaviour and being attuned to them and their actions and personalities will keep the situation under control. You have to be diligent when they are out together as I am when we are all hanging out watching tv together. I NEVER EVER trust them alone. You will learn to read them and their behaviour. That's what you get posting here, LOTS of opinions, it is up to YOU to decide what is the best course of action, but clipping shouldn't be the only one.....you have a teachable moment to begin training the behaviour of your bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Okay so it seems like our four month old Cag attacks our pug puppy when she comes out. I thought it was playing when she dive bombs the dogs. But today she flew and landed on the pug's head and viciously biting the crap out of the dog!! Our dog yelped and whimpered so I grabbed the dog and the bird flew away! Why is she doing this at such a young age? The pug is the most active of our dogs and she does not do this to the others. What should I do? I've kept them separate for the most part. Is there any way of changing her animosity? Have you tried putting you dog on a small leash when your let her out ofmher cage and guarding your dog? All the time reassuring your grey that all is ok and your dog is a friendly family member? Also, maybe your grey is jealous of the dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chezron Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Dan if I could thank you twice i would. Good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chenliu85 Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) I've had my dog tied to a chair while the grey is out but our CAG still attacks her. I think the attacks are offense rather than defense. I say this because she tried to attack the pug while I was holding the pug in my arms.. I was also told by a vet to put the bird back in its cage and say no to teach her that it is not okay but now she hates the cage. So... yeah is there any other way? I even contacted the audubon society and they recommended squirt guns. I think the bird likes taking showers. I think she just hates the dogs for some reason... ??? I dont want to clip her wings right now because I've read that it is bad if done before a year old. Instead, I would like to teach her not to attack the dogs rather than clipping her wings as a long term solution but have no idea what to do to change her attitude toward the dogs. She isn't doing it because she is scared. She is doing it because she hates them and enjoys messing with them. I say this because she will dive bomb them when they are all resting on the floor. Oh yeah.. She also eats furniture! Thats another problem. We have an entertainment unit on our wall that costed me an arm and a leg. Now, the bird has chewed holes on the top. It is hard to reach her when she is on top of the unit. I always have to grab a ladder and its always too late by the time i get there. So.. yeah i really dont want to clip her wings but Im also running out of ideas on that one. Edited May 11, 2012 by Chenliu85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmcq Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Please do not clip the wings. As you have said, it is crucial that the neural synapses for flight get built. This takes time as you seem to know and understand. Solutions to your problems: 1. Do not bring the dogs in the room when your CAG is out. Also, as you said, if she starts to attack, place her in the the cage with a firm NO BITE, then leave her in there for a while. IF you let her out and she goes again for the dogs, place her right back in the cage again. She is highly intelligent and will soon decide for herself that the pleasure gained from terrorizing your dogs is not worth the jail time. 2. Places you do not want her to fly to and chew on - Place a stuffed animal with eyes that she is afraid where you do not want her to venture. Basically anything she is afraid of that you are aware of will work. Many of us do this because there are obviously items we do not want chewed up. Unfortunately parrots by nature love to chew things and especially wood. Thus all the wood block toys out there available for them. Keep posting anytime you need help with the issues. That's what we are here for. There are many ways to have a flighted bird and still maintain sanity and pieces of furniture you do not want destroyed intact. It's just a matter of changing the environment a little so you can keep your items nice and your bird can keep it's god given ability to fly intact. Then it's a win - win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Good advice Dan! I have many forbidden places, however, all 3 of my parrots chew the wood, door frames, window sills, etc..... I dont allow it, but it still happens....I have many things I purchase at the Dollar Store in hopes of using them to put in places that are no-no's. I recently purchased a giant fly swatter, a spinning flower garden ornament, and a loud long noise maker. I place them where ever they want to go and I don't want them, and they fly off and stay off. Mostly, I use a large, long handled duster that they hate! That works best. I also have some hand held items that they won't go near, you could try holding them when your bird is out and your dog is next to you, you may find this solution works best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingy Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I imagine the poor pup is extremely confused. Could you make some leather armor for your pup. Something that would cover the head, back of the neck and across the back. Google hunting dog armor for some ideas. As for protecting your tv cabinet you could buy a miscut or flawed piece of granite countertop or cover a piece of plywood with tiles and just set it on top. That will look attractive and be chew resistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Wingy... LOL! Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kins2321@yahoo.com Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Jayd... You were mean to Munch. Munch stated his opinion and you treated his comment a little cruel. Remember, we all have opinions and must be respectful. I'm sure Munch's grey, is just as much a companion( NOT family pet), as your baby. Forget that your way is best! It may not be to other parents. You hate trimming. We all get that. Respect what others have done, and have been successful with their birds. I personally do a little of both. Fly away baby! Develop your muscles, work on crash landing. We always practiced flying, as I have a huge room to do it! ( kiki's known for her " oops!") LOL A few broken things, I put the rest away. When Sophie was in her terrible two's, I asked my trimmer to " let her fly perfectly, into two rooms away". He did. She would land, walk up to me and want to play. As far as Kiki, there was never a chance of stopping her from flight. She gets trimmed as if you and I go to the spa! She LOVES it! Nails and beak trimmed. It feels soooo good! Unwanted feathers she's too lazy to get rid of, are trimmed. She leaves flying just as good as when she walked in. This is a trim for us. My trimmer is soooo amazing, I could have Sophie trimmed perfectly, to her stage of development, and she could still fly. Did it work for me? Absolutely! Can she fly today? Absolutely! Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Jayd... You were mean to Munch. Munch stated his opinion and you treated his comment a little cruel. Remember, we all have opinions and must be respectful. I'm sure Munch's grey, is just as much a companion( NOT family pet), as your baby. Forget that your way is best! It may not be to other parents. You hate trimming. We all get that. Respect what others have done, and have been successful with their birds. I personally do a little of both. Fly away baby! Develop your muscles, work on crash landing. We always practiced flying, as I have a huge room to do it! ( kiki's known for her " oops!") LOL A few broken things, I put the rest away. When Sophie was in her terrible two's, I asked my trimmer to " let her fly perfectly, into two rooms away". He did. She would land, walk up to me and want to play. As far as Kiki, there was never a chance of stopping her from flight. She gets trimmed as if you and I go to the spa! She LOVES it! Nails and beak trimmed. It feels soooo good! Unwanted feathers she's too lazy to get rid of, are trimmed. She leaves flying just as good as when she walked in. This is a trim for us. My trimmer is soooo amazing, I could have Sophie trimmed perfectly, to her stage of development, and she could still fly. Did it work for me? Absolutely! Can she fly today? Absolutely! Nancy I made a statement to Munch, I was referring to you! Once again in this post you've stated what I must do! "Remember, we all have opinions and must be respectful". I'm glad everything works for you, your way doesn't for me. Practice what you preach!!! To munch, a sincere apology, but I don't agree with what you did for the reason you stated. To all members, Sorry..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Stuart Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Chenliu85, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I hope you are able to nip it in the bud before someone (most likely the bird) gets gravely injured. This must be very upsetting to your family, but hang in there. A stern (but not too loud) reprimand, voicing disappointment in the bird's behavior and the good ol' stink eye can do wonders! Munch, I agree with you. Wing-clipping for indoor birds is often a must. There is too much risk of them injuring themselves by flying into things, flying out an open door, fighting with other pets. I know a LOT of people will disagree but it is not like amputation or declawing cats... The feather can and do grow back, so it is not permanent. A bird that has once learned how to fly will not permanently lose its ability to fly after a clipping. It would be nice if everyone could have their birds in large aviaries, safe from cats and dogs and other predators but... it's not the reality. --Kelly ********Please do me a BIG favor.... **************** Go to Lafeber Nutri-berries on Facebook and LIKE their page. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Lafeber-Nutri-Berries/181104511900404 If they get 1000 fans by Monday May 14th, the company has agreed to support a project that involves taking Bibi the Bird on a trip to visit people in nursing homes, schools and hospices. PLEASE HELP THIS PROJECT! To learn more about the project, go to: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1174569575/road-trip-with-bibi-the-african-grey-parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayd Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Thank you, You correct, feathers will grow back...Problem is psychological issues can last for a life time. Quote"A bird that has once learned how to fly will not permanently lose its ability to fly after a clipping." Unquote.: The more times a parrot is clipped, the greater chance of muscle degeneration and fear of flying issues. I stick to what I post, Sometimes it's the Parront not the Parent that needs training. Research!!!!!Thanks so much.. Jay Edited May 12, 2012 by Jayd spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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